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#1 2015-09-16 18:47:56

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

thoughts
a. So evince was chosen instead of mate atril ?
b. backports are not enabled by default (Thinking : Blender, libreoffice ...) ?
c. root-menu / 'Display Keybindings' is great, but the display is fugly
d. I'd prefer a wallpaper without any branding (while installers and logins are great with it).
I'd say the no-branding approach was one of the main selling points for crunchbang beauty songs.
http://distrowatch.com/images/cgfjoewdl … chbang.png
e. There were visual holes in tint2 'S' section (clipit, volume, connection icons) < fixed by disabling fdpowermon in autostart (Could there be: 'if laptop then fdpowermon' thingy?) < using default icon theme as well
f. Why is lxapperance missing 'window border' tab? < an openbox part
g. Thunar single-click default is not in agreement with for example iceweasel double-click save-as pane.
h. a script like this https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bront … /changeres could be added to autostart for all virtualbox lovers (It will restart conky, reload wallpaper when screen-resolution change is detected, should be changed a bit for bunsen) < it just dies if there is no vbox detected
i. a way to manipulate (at least) gamma of the active wallpaper, but still keep the nitrogen and it's gui? (+ and - entries in root-menu next to wallpaper chooser perhaps).
.bunsenRc1c.png
j. adding size to terminators config will always start 1st instance centered on screen (Which I think is a nice side effect).
.bunsenRc1f.png

misc
z. about tearing & virtualbox: mpv -vo x11 file.mp4; will give healthy output no matter if compton is enabled or not ( Using this 30fps test clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceX18O9pvLs ).

scrots (with some tweaking)
.bunsenRc1.png.bunsenRc1b.png.bunsenRc1d.png.bunsenRc1e.png

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-09-16 22:56:12)

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#2 2015-09-16 19:03:04

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

brontosaurusrex wrote:

....
c. root-menu / 'Display Keybindings' is great, but the display is fugly
....

I agree, but it is an issue with how Openbox is displaying menu fonts. Monospaced works OK hmm

If anyone knows a fix then please shout it out!


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#3 2015-09-16 19:21:42

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

a. Yes, we figured the user can replace Evince if they want.
b. Intentional, to ensure a minimum of messing with Debian stable OOTB. It's up to the user to enable backports.
d. Open nitrogen and set the unbranded wallpaper there (bl-grey.png).
f. I think that's part of lxappearance-obconf, install it to check.
g. Yeah, but Thunar was single-click in #!, so...

Could there be: 'if laptop then fdpowermon' thingy?

Funny you should mention that, we've just started discussing an 'if laptop then enable xfce4-power-manager backport' thingy. smile


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#4 2015-09-16 19:28:56

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

@hhh,
b. As far as I know, backports are never used by default, unless specifically requested; apt-get install -t jessie-backports blender, unless I'am wrong.
f. Yes, that was it, shouldn't that installed be a good default?

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-09-16 19:31:06)

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#5 2015-09-16 19:36:58

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

b. Yes, that's true. It seems silly to have apt always updating the repo for users who will never use it, but maybe the rest of the team disagrees.
f. obconf and lxappearance-obconf are different but have a lot of overlapping features, so we went with obconf (has more features). I'll play around with both and see if it's worth adding lxappearance-obconf.


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#6 2015-09-16 19:41:21

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

f. I'd keep obconf and add lxapperance-obconf.
b. Mostly thinking about blender here, I'd never use blender 2.72, when there is 2.76 beta out, but perhaps I would keep 2.74 (backports) installed.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-09-16 19:47:22)

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#7 2015-09-17 08:26:28

johnraff
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From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
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Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

@Bronto thanks for your input! Feedback is extremely useful.

e. We're now looking at detecting laptops in bl-welcome to offer xfce4-power-manager from backport, but the detection (dmidecode or laptop-detect) requires sudo so it would be inconvenient to run it at at every login.

f. The setting you're looking for is in obconf. I don't think there's anything to be gained by adding lxapperance-obconf. The settings are all in either lxappearance or obconf, both of which are installed.

g. I prefer double-click too but it's a #! legacy so we left it as it was.

h. That sounds like a good candidate for the "Post-install Tweaks" thread that might appear eventually.


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#8 2015-09-17 09:30:26

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

@johnraff

e. laptop-detect seems to not require sudo here.

f. imho gain is a single window where one can change entire 'look'.

g. I'd call it a #! 'bug', rather than legacy smile

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-09-17 10:03:24)

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#9 2015-09-17 11:12:33

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

@ bronto

I don't run Blender from Debian sources: I get the latest download from blender.org and run it as a standalone from its own directory - this way you ensure you have all the latest python and graphics libraries etc., which don't clash with your system libraries. You don't fall behind as Stable gets older and older, but it uses disk space obviously.

ATM I have

blender-2.73
blender-2.74
blender-2.75

Each install makes a config dir in ~/.config/blender, so I just copy in my configs from the previous setup.

(I have done the same with the latest dev GIMP as well, but that needs a lot of compiling of libraries)


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#10 2015-09-17 11:21:07

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

@damo; same here, so the installer is basically useless?

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#11 2015-09-17 11:25:48

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

brontosaurusrex wrote:

@damo; same here, so the installer is basically useless?

Not at all - it installs Blender from Debian Stable for those who want it! But if you want more recent functionality.......

Even sid lags behind Blender development, and it usually causes me grief because of nvidia issues, which the standalone never does. I like CUDA+Cycles wink


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#12 2015-09-17 11:39:34

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

@damo: Coming from:
- install blender < On first click I would think its a wget/Curl script that automagically gets the latest version from https://builder.blender.org/download/ or something.
- takes space in already slightly bloated root-menu < root-menu should be as small as possible (only my opinion)
- talking about good defaults here, I know i can nuke the menu and do my own wink, also capable of changing the wallpaper tongue

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-09-17 11:43:33)

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#13 2015-09-17 11:55:10

phle
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2015-02-17
Posts: 21

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

brontosaurusrex wrote:

g. Thunar single-click default is not in agreement with for example iceweasel double-click save-as pane.

hhh wrote:

g. Yeah, but Thunar was single-click in #!, so...

johnraff wrote:

g. I prefer double-click too but it's a #! legacy so we left it as it was.

brontosaurusrex wrote:

g. I'd call it a #! 'bug', rather than legacy smile


So, what about a compromise, then:
When I tweaked Debian 8 LXDE, I had to choose both whether I wanted to keep using LXDE's PCManFM, or install Thunar, and whether I wanted Debian's default double-click in filemanager, or change to single-click.
Considering Directories Begin with Uppercase Letters, as it's a Debian default, maybe BunsenLabs should actually have double-click as well but then have
"Do you want to change Debian's double-click as default in the filemanager, to single-click?"
as an option in the bl-welcome script (or just a plain
"Debian uses double-click as default, here's a forum link on how to tweak things"
- or maybe a "Use [this theme] for more 'Crunch'!", and that theme being lowercase directories, single-clicks, etc.)?
[Disclaimer: I have no idea of whether my suggestions are easily realised or not.]

I mean - in the end it's basically about what people (the majority, the developers, my neighbour (whom I don't even know whether they're Computer Literate, or not wink ), ... want.
I guess if someone wants "CrunchBang, but on Debian Jessie", they ought actually go to one of the continuing-as-a-one-person-projects,
but if someone wants "what CrunchBang would have developed to, similar to as when it shifted from Ubuntu-based to directly-from-Debian-based", BunsenLabs is their better choice.


2015-09-30: officially moved over to the BunsenLabs Forums.

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#14 2015-09-17 12:10:44

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

brontosaurusrex wrote:

@damo: Coming from:
- install blender < On first click I would think its a wget/Curl script that automagically gets the latest version from https://builder.blender.org/download/ or something.
- takes space in already slightly bloated root-menu < root-menu should be as small as possible (only my opinion)
- talking about good defaults here, I know i can nuke the menu and do my own wink, also capable of changing the wallpaper tongue

There was quite a bit of dev discussion about what to have in a default menu, and the consensus was to accommodate the majority of newcomers, without overloading it or including big apps on the iso (GIMP and LibreOffice anyone?). Hence the pipemenus which are loaded from pipemenus.rc.

The idea is that apps can easily be added/removed from pipemenus.rc (there is a HowTo provided), without having to edit menu.rc, and they magically appear in the menu.

Defaults will always be a compromise tongue ( and I like your wallpapers {) )

I like the idea of a script to d/l and install the latest Blender, but there are other things to do first....


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#15 2015-09-17 12:30:54

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

damo wrote:

The idea is that apps can easily be added/removed from pipemenus.rc (there is a HowTo provided), without having to edit menu.rc, and they magically appear in the menu.

I see, missed that part.

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#16 2015-09-17 13:46:34

ghorvath
#! Member
Registered: 2015-05-20
Posts: 53

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

hhh wrote:

b. Yes, that's true. It seems silly to have apt always updating the repo for users who will never use it, but maybe the rest of the team disagrees.

It happened to me several times that apt-get update somehow could not update the backports repository during a script (updated all the others properly), threw some errors and the rest of the script did not even run. I think it happened with bl-welcome, as well, but I am not entirely sure. (It is not easily reproducible, and it happened on a 100Mbit connection, as well.)

In any case, adding not used repos to the sources may cause some problems. Maybe a commented line could be added which the user could uncomment if they want to?

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#17 2015-09-17 14:57:21

twoion
Emerald Caffeine
From: 星界
Registered: 2012-05-11
Posts: 1,648

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

ghorvath wrote:

In any case, adding not used repos to the sources may cause some problems. Maybe a commented line could be added which the user could uncomment if they want to?

It shouldn't matter at all.

I can't guarantee that you were updating your system just during the time when I was messing around with the webserver configuration (or rebooted the server, happened 2 days ago, but only ONCE) though (sorry).


Tannhäuser ~ {www,pkg,ddl}.bunsenlabs.org/{gitlog,repoidx}

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#18 2015-09-17 15:57:17

ghorvath
#! Member
Registered: 2015-05-20
Posts: 53

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

twoion wrote:
ghorvath wrote:

In any case, adding not used repos to the sources may cause some problems. Maybe a commented line could be added which the user could uncomment if they want to?

It shouldn't matter at all.

I can't guarantee that you were updating your system just during the time when I was messing around with the webserver configuration (or rebooted the server, happened 2 days ago, but only ONCE) though (sorry).

It was with the debian backports repo, not with the bunsen-backports repo, and it was about a month ago. And come to think of it, the script probably was _not_ bl-welcome, but rather some of my own scripts containing something like

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

And the dist-upgrade never run because update did not exit with code 0.

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#19 2015-09-18 01:52:43

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

brontosaurusrex wrote:

e. laptop-detect seems to not require sudo here.

Correct. But if you run it without sudo it will just silently skip the dmidecode test and make its decision only on the battery tests, which aren't always accurate.

f. imho gain is a single window where one can change entire 'look'.

That would be excellent if all the settings options were covered. As it is, you need obconf anyway, so lxappearance-obconf offers nothing.

g. I'd call it a #! 'bug', rather than legacy smile

It's an option. Obviously Philip preferred it. With frequent fresh installs for testing I'm starting to get used to one-click, though in any system I plan to keep I'll change to double-click. Anyway, I think "bug" is a bit exaggerated. If it looks as if the majority of users prefer 2-click we can easily change the default in bunsen-configs.

(install) - takes space in already slightly bloated root-menu < root-menu should be as small as possible

I agree. In the latest graphics pipemenu (bunsen-pipemenus v. 8.6.1-1) "install" options all go into submenus. That version should appear on the repos before long.

Last edited by johnraff (2015-09-18 01:54:26)


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#20 2015-09-18 09:18:36

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

Ok then, I see you all have a real samurai powers (@johnraff, offtopic: Did you by any chance read the Samurai by Saburo Sakai book?).

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#21 2015-09-19 03:42:31

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

^no I haven't read that book. I've just read up on Saburo Sakai and his is certainly an amazing story. The samurai inherited a special military code of conduct which, while it should have been snuffed out in the Meiji restoration, survived in the military - at least the officers - who conducted the Pacific War. The result was a horrible mixture of amazing heroism and despicable brutality, the victims of which were both the ordinary Japanese and of course the innocent populations of the Asian countries they ravaged through. For example, the kamikaze pilots: some of them were (possibly misguided) idealistic volunteers, but many were forced into sacrificing their lives for the egoistic fantasies of the country's rulers. (eg http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php … ts-chosen/ )

Sorry to rant on a bit, but the topic is somewhat timely here in Japan, with the 70th anniversary of the war's end and prime minister Abe's attempt to remilitarize the country.


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--------------------
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#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#22 2015-09-19 14:20:11

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

Sorry for offtopic (It's one of those books I read at least 5 times over the years / and could always find a new angle of view on it). According to Saburo, becoming kamikaze was not much more than another order to be conducted (unless I missed the interlines/in-between lines), which makes some sense if you know what a hard and military training all this pilots had (But can't explain the nooby pilots deciding for the same).

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-09-19 14:40:19)

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#23 2015-09-21 11:27:03

nagybence
Member
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 15

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

d) I miss the tiled background of CrunchBang and the plain elegance behind it, so I have made a pull request on GitHub to include it in the theme package (I hope it is the recommended way for contribution). smile By the way the logo of BunsenLabs is really beautiful, but I prefer a more zen desktop...

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#24 2015-09-21 12:52:18

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

nagybence wrote:

d) I miss the tiled background of CrunchBang and the plain elegance behind it, so I have made a pull request on GitHub to include it in the theme package (I hope it is the recommended way for contribution). smile By the way the logo of BunsenLabs is really beautiful, but I prefer a more zen desktop...

You can get the original CB backgrounds, including the tiles, from packages.crunchbang.org....: here
(I know you have it already, but for others who don't know where to get them....)

Set the bg so you don't miss it anymore smile

They are very small files, so it wouldn't be a problem including them, but don't expect them to be part of a default BL setup.

Last edited by damo (2015-09-21 12:55:19)


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#25 2015-09-21 13:55:55

nagybence
Member
Registered: 2015-09-17
Posts: 15

Re: Hydrogen RC1, random thoughts in random order

Thanks, @damo, I like this legacy thing with Crunchbang, and I have nothing against including the tiled background, but actually I don't see what's behind the scenes, so I gave it a try. smile

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