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#1 2015-03-08 12:21:28

twoion
Emerald Caffeine
From: 星界
Registered: 2012-05-11
Posts: 1,648

Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

Both chromium and google chrome will stop supporting Debian Jessie, that is kernel version 3.16, if a specific kernel feature is not backported to 3.16. So far, there seems to be  little support for the idea in the Debian kernel ranks.

Sources and background: debian-kernel mailing list, news.ycombinator.com


Tannhäuser ~ {www,pkg,ddl}.bunsenlabs.org/{gitlog,repoidx}

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#2 2015-03-08 14:04:07

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

If it's just a conflict with that particular kernel version, couldn't NetFlix* users just employ a backported kernel instead?

* This is the only reason I can think of for using Chromium/Chrome...

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#3 2015-03-08 14:33:24

twoion
Emerald Caffeine
From: 星界
Registered: 2012-05-11
Posts: 1,648

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

If it's just a conflict with that particular kernel version, couldn't NetFlix* users just employ a backported kernel instead?

* This is the only reason I can think of for using Chromium/Chrome...

Apparently yes, but (stable + backports != stable), hence the issue.


Tannhäuser ~ {www,pkg,ddl}.bunsenlabs.org/{gitlog,repoidx}

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#4 2015-03-08 15:04:25

schwim
#! Die Hard
From: Interweb's #1 Devotee
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 1,031
Website

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

I don't blame either camp for the issue.  Debian and Google's goals are truly polar opposites.  What Google is doing with the browser is truly game-changing, in regards to packaging their own SL and flash(no more shovelware on the Flash installer makes this worth it on it's own) but to do that requires technology that the stable(old) packages won't have.

In the end, a kernel upgrade will still be an easier howto for the forum users than it was when we were trying to get Netflix through PPAs and Pipelight.

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#5 2015-03-08 17:09:33

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

If it's just a conflict with that particular kernel version, couldn't NetFlix* users just employ a backported kernel instead?

* This is the only reason I can think of for using Chromium/Chrome...

Well, due to serious text rendering issues in Iceweasel on some hardware (they seem to get worse with every major release roll ) and the vanishing of other browsers like Kazehakase from Wheezy and Midori from Jessie, there aren't many alternatives that come set up for users out-of-the-box.

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#6 2015-03-08 17:35:45

Anaconda
crypto-anarchist
From: Vancouver Canada
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 437

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

schwim wrote:

In the end, a kernel upgrade will still be an easier howto for the forum users than it was when we were trying to get Netflix through PPAs and Pipelight.

If I understand the problem correctly then schwim has summed up the solution nicely, even if someone wants to use chrome(ium) for something other than Netlflix access.

Kernel upgrades are not exactly rocket science, and in my experience they don't normally result in any problems.

Last edited by Anaconda (2015-03-08 17:36:05)


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#7 2015-03-08 22:30:54

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

Thanks for posting this and to respondents, lotsa interesting infobits fellow nixers. smile


*Fires up babble generator:


If only effects less than (<3.16) kernels, sounds like it's already sorted out for the most part, easily dealt w for those who need it. As for da mighty Goog! and how they're going about it apparently, oddly both approve and dislike, shrugs. edit: Which o course Goog! could give a chit, what I think anyway. tongue

Approve: Because don't mind seeing people who dev-maintain or whatever something useful taking a hardline and saying this is how it's going to be, this is getting done or this has to be done orrrrrr hit the road jack/jane and quit using xyz software. The folks who do the work shouldn't constantly imo, feel the need to bend over backwards trying to please end-USERS in every single aspect, emphasis on the users part obviously. Think it stunts some kickbutt opensource projs in the normal shiny/happy PC outlook. Too many chiefs, not enough indians. smile

related example: This whole systemd ... end of the world thingy and Debian deciding to adopt it. Big azzhat factions endlessly whining, pointing fingers and otherwise impotently shaking of fist's. Imo ... these folks are totally clueless in so many ways, yet feel entitled to tell a reputable and massive opensource proj it's business and how it's going to be etc.

aka: The people who have the skills, do the work, pay for it etc. Simply saying this is how it's going to be, you have xyz ( often easy) options but if whoever among userbase for whatever reason(s) disapprove, great, this is still how it's going to be. If cannot get over it, use something else.

Dislike: In that it's Goog! throwing it's weight around, which it haz a lot of weight and can do. It's long since been in a position to. The whole you need us, more than we need you attitude. With the $ and human resources Goog! has avail, could come out with and upstream any needed patches. They may have already too.

Clearly chromium/Chrome, taking up flashplayer tech for gnu/nixers etc. Is an intelligent example of Goog! doing something advantageous to Goog! in hopes of increa$ing it's position. Which is fine too I guess.

Kinda funny, would like to know if Goog! sent the needed patches upstream for >3.16 already and/or some $$$. Because impression I get of Linus Torvalds, even when dealing with Goog!. If they start monkey'ing around, throwing weight around or fiddling w the Linux kernel in a way he deems is stupid. Dude is just as likely to tell them to go chit in their hatz, as to incorp things into the kernel for them.

He's got a middle finger and he ain't afraid to use it. Just ask Nvidia. lol


Don't watch Netflix on gnu/Linux, so personally really don't care. Like that it's there and maintained for others though. Am sure it'll be sorted out or if not, as plenty already said, install a newer version and compatible kernel, in one or more of your nixy OS's = Problem solved.

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2015-03-08 22:36:33)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#8 2015-03-09 00:01:14

twoion
Emerald Caffeine
From: 星界
Registered: 2012-05-11
Posts: 1,648

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

pvsage wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

If it's just a conflict with that particular kernel version, couldn't NetFlix* users just employ a backported kernel instead?

* This is the only reason I can think of for using Chromium/Chrome...

Well, due to serious text rendering issues in Iceweasel on some hardware (they seem to get worse with every major release roll ) and the vanishing of other browsers like Kazehakase from Wheezy and Midori from Jessie, there aren't many alternatives that come set up for users out-of-the-box.

Actually I have noticed the rendering problems too, however for me the trend is reversed: chromium sucks all the more, iceweasel runs all the better.

Last edited by twoion (2015-03-09 00:01:30)


Tannhäuser ~ {www,pkg,ddl}.bunsenlabs.org/{gitlog,repoidx}

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#9 2015-03-09 01:07:20

tknomanzr
#! Die Hard
From: Heavener, OK
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 777

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

I keep hoping for the final death of flash but it hasn't come yet. That said, I have way better luck with flash in chrome than flash in Iceweasel, on two completely different hardware architectures, nonetheless. Liquorix is running 3.18 kernel atm. It works reasonably well. I guess could just hold chrome until the kernel issues are sorted out at any rate. 4.0 is on the horizon.

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#10 2015-03-09 01:48:04

schwim
#! Die Hard
From: Interweb's #1 Devotee
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 1,031
Website

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

tknomanzr wrote:

I keep hoping for the final death of flash but it hasn't come yet.


If Steve Jobs hadn't died, he would have finished the job.  He managed to get Adobe to kill development of mobile flash and it would have been a natural progression to have HTML 5 just continue the replacement across PC's.  Pretty much as soon as he was gone an about-face was made.

Now we're seeing small steps replacing Silverlight, flash, etc.  It's like watching proprietary, closed source and poorly coded grass grow.

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#11 2015-03-09 02:38:07

boromeus
#! Junkie
From: BG (SRB)
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 313

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

What is the exact reason of throwing out Midori from Jessie?

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#12 2015-03-09 02:53:27

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

^ Segfaults, freezes, broken java, crashes, fails to restore tabs after crash...you know, the usual for Midori.
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo … st=testing

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#13 2015-03-09 03:00:13

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

^+500 smile

Pointless really skirting offtopicness babble.

Midori has long since been a total piece of <censored> in my opinion + experiences with it. About as useful nowadays marginally more useful and that's open to debate as Dillo, sheesh there are tonnes of cli or off the beaten path browserage avail in gnu/nix that put it to shame too.

Though never fear, Midori will likely stay around for the quite a long while and be available to whatever nixer(s) who want it. Provided they are willing to do a lil bit for themselves to get/install it. Yay !

Just in case biz didna make opinion fairly clear. Oh man, they took Midori out of the repos ?! GOOD ... culling out crapware in my view is a good thing overall. Yep ... here comes the PC but who gets to decide what's crapware biz, blahblahblah. Lol ... in this case (Debian AND) pretty much anyone who's used Midori already knows. Again ... it's still around for whoever anyway. tongue

Btw: Would bet $$$ the guy who devel'ed and occasionally updates the devel of Midori doesn't even use the thing as their main browser. They wouldn't put themselves through such pains. Nough said ...

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2015-03-09 03:17:21)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#14 2015-03-09 10:42:06

seraphtrend
#! CrunchBanger
From: Florida
Registered: 2011-12-03
Posts: 100

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

As a Linux user, Goolge is really pushing users like me to migrate away to other services like spideroak over Google Drive.

With no desktop client for Drive, and now this? Seems like they (Google) don't care much for nixers (and no, I don't mean Ubuntu alone,, seams like recently when a new software is "now on Linux" they really mean Ubuntu and ignore the greater Debian package management system).

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#15 2015-03-09 21:36:05

boromeus
#! Junkie
From: BG (SRB)
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 313

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

pvsage wrote:

^ Segfaults, freezes, broken java, crashes, fails to restore tabs after crash...you know, the usual for Midori.
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo … st=testing

Okay, that's not that very uncommon.

Don't misunderstand me, bugs are serious things to be concerned about. But it's not a nuclear reactor for God's sake, it's just a browser. Let it crash sometimes. In other words: it's up to the end-user's decision what kind of errors they can tolerate. Not in the system but in userland applications of course.

If Midori is kicked out from Jessie, why do we still have for example the good old Netsurf? That's still a solid little browser with its unique layout engine that eats around one-third as much memory as Webkit does. Many things work extremely nice in it and of course, it's full of bugs. I think it crashes more frequently than Midori does. So what's the policy now? Throwing out everything or just some? If only the Webkit-based ones, than why not uzbl too? It also has it's own bugs (by the way it uses more RAM than Chromium, while it's advertised as lightweight).

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#16 2015-03-09 22:26:38

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

^ Only one outstanding bug for Netsurf in Jessie:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo … st=testing
Wondering why there are no bug reports for Netsurf crashing if it is such a common occurrence.  (Note that I've never used Netsurf; I think it's one of those browsers I installed, launched once, asked "How the heck do I even open a URL - do I have to write a config file myself just to access the interwebz?" quit and purged.  Maybe if it had some kind of usable interface out-of-the-box there would be more users trying it, experiencing the crashes, and filing bug reports.)

EDIT:  Oh, now I remember; I just tried that one last night because its description in APT said it includes html5 support.  Disappointed enough with page formatting problems to not be impressed.  Result is the same - if user doesn't stick around enough to keep it, user won't file bug report.

Last edited by pvsage (2015-03-09 22:32:44)

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#17 2015-03-10 01:02:30

NewCityVegas
Resident Tech Reporter
From: ANTI-CENSORSHIP
Registered: 2008-12-02
Posts: 628
Website

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/elem … -beta.html

Re: Elementary OS Freya:

Speaking of Midori, it's really a bad choice. Crashy, buggy, and Google does not like it. Youtube will actually tell you that this is not a supported browser, and indeed, some of the actions will not really work. I can understand minimalism, but it has to come with solid functionality. Just use a normal browser, please. This is not a new issue.

If you don't want Chrome or Firefox, use the very capable and compatible Palemoon browser as the newer Puppy distros do.

Midori and several other "hobby" browsers are incompatible with the VLC plugin. Many also have poor HTML5 support.


============= You are the dreamer - and the dream =============

gooplusplus.com (goo++) --- compact web tools and 250+ internet radio stations

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#18 2015-03-10 04:42:59

boromeus
#! Junkie
From: BG (SRB)
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 313

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

pvsage wrote:

Only one outstanding bug for Netsurf in Jessie:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo … st=testing

Nope, more: http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/

pvsage wrote:

"How the heck do I even open a URL - do I have to write a config file myself just to access the interwebz?"

Haha, that's Surf, not Netsurf. Surf is from the same group that develops dwm, it uses Webkit. On the other hand the development of Netsurf started like 15 years ago or something like that, it's pretty old. Works out of the box, no configuration needed. Bugs are squashed down fairly quickly, yet there are still too many lethal ones.

pvsage wrote:

If user doesn't stick around enough to keep it, user won't file bug report.

That's true. I've been using it as a secondary browser on a daily basis for quite some time (you know, when you just want to search for packages or check the news quickly, no need to fire with Webkit), I have filed a handful of ugly beetles, some of them were resolved relatively quickly, some of them are still biting around.

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#19 2015-03-10 14:49:41

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

As for google dropping support for Chrome/ium if xyz isn't done. Plenty have already mentioned it's for the most part a moot point, easily solved problem, if you prefer them over others. Aren't my personal preference regardless.

Like Schwim ... been hoping for a long time to see adobe flashplayer crash n burn for several reasons. Resource hog from hades, potential privacy nightmare etc etc. Google opting to take it up, while totally understandable ... doesn't make me feel all gushy, shrugs. Confident the world will keep spinning and fairly well confident the ultimatum they've given will cause folks to jump.

Google Inc says jump, reasonably enough A LOT of people jump az high az they can and when they land ... ask da mighty Goog! if it was high enough. tongue

Like Mel Brooks said "It's good 2 be the king". smile


Offtopic babble, to sub-topic in the thread. Got kinda a thread within a thread thing going on here. big_smile

Hobby browsers on gnu/nix.

Have used that description for longgggg time and think it's pretty much perfect. Someone's hobby but not meant to be used in any serious manner. These will never be comparable to the real deal browsers of the world. Never produce any fantastic innovation etc etc. A person would likely learn more just snatching up Mozilla's open source code and forking the browser again.

Midori imo suks and can't see why anyone would care whether it's thrown out of Debs repo's. Though different strokes 4 diff folks. Actually considering it's tendency to lockup cpu, crash out of nowhere and fairly often in biz's experience, it doesn't really ever belong in a stable software repository. It's not stable eh. smile

Jmo on subject overall, tried many and haven't found one that was worth using. Not faster, not lighter ... painfully lacking features and useability etc. When compared to real browsers, FF, Chrome and Opera.

When they describe them as "minimal" graphical web browsers for gnu/Linux. Think they should be more specific, doesn't mean minimal as in light. Means minimally developed or maintain, minimal features, for midori also minimal likelihood it won't crash lol.

Would rather see em on sourceforge ... github or in a software archive repository. Might look good to say there's 20k packages in Deb's repo's. Personally would rather have 6,000 actually kickbutt or good one's. Rather than a buncha stuff nobody can actually use for any productive purpose ... Shrugs.

Though hey, just one nixers opinions on it. If really pressed someone could always ... oh I dunno ... fork Debian to ensure midori forever stays available 2 da masses. Call it Midvaun perhaps ? Oooo ooo Midorian Linux ! big_smile

Bein a dork ... will hush up now. Vll!

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2015-03-10 14:55:56)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#20 2015-03-13 07:24:14

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

CBizgreat! wrote:

*Fires up babble generator:

Please...no...not the babble generator...argghh!!  wink

CBizgreat! wrote:

He's got a middle finger and he ain't afraid to use it. Just ask Nvidia. lol

Let's call it the Torvalds salute.  big_smile

Midori isn't my favorite browser, but I still use it occasionally.  Yes, it does have a habit of crashing.

My current faves are Chrome, Firefox, Qupzilla, and Vivaldi.  Under Debian Testing, or when Jessie goes stable, I'll add the Opera browser as well.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2015-03-13 07:34:26)


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#21 2015-03-18 05:04:50

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: Chromium/Google Chrome to drop support for Debian Jessie/Linux <=3.16

Hadn't heard about some of those Krunch. Overall really don't know, the biggies FF(1mil forks aside), Chrome and Opera pretty much have it in the bag. Too much momentum behind them and resources devoted to keep devel'ing them. Me thinks ... they've mostly rendered the others obsolete now.

Still can see continued improvements in all of em. Which is usually how it works no matter what. One comes out w a useful feature, the others soon adopt something like it too. Tis the way of the world. Not that biz disapproves of others efforts either way. Whoever wants to is free to endlessly play w web-browsers.

Comes to flashplayer and Chrome/ium ? My ideal solution is pretty simple, I don't use C/ium or install flashplayer. Not google inc's ... not adobe's. Esp on a window$ platform ( won't on anything g/Nix either) and fortunately things are moving beyond it now anyway. Seldom come across a site that won't work w/o flashplayer. Designers who are in the know are turning to avoiding it present dy.

Using flash excessively falling out of fashion for a buncha reasons thankfully. Can only hope it continues. About the only thing could see needing to install flashplayer(s) and as many as poss major browsers , includ *barf* IE ... People who do development stuff. Where yeppers, guess that's a necessity ... depending anyway.

Good for goose, good for others too. ie: Checking server logs, .0005% of people who visit are using xyz v of IE ? Hmmmm ... admin puts one of those ...

"We're sorry, your choice of web browser sucks, please install (example: any non-IE) browser or at least learn how to change your user-agent and then feel free to revisit nixerzruleM$sukz.com. Thank you and have a nice day."


Viva la M$ bashing ! and gnu/Linux ! tongue

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2015-03-18 05:10:17)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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