Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

hhh · 2015-02-10 20:18:57

I'm putting this here until a new forum section specifically for jessie is created.

Be fruitful and prosper, as corenominal wishes. Install jessie, install openbox and your other session components, configure them and explain what you did. Post screenshots in the Screenshot thread.

My screenshot.

After you have the netiso installed, you'll need some packages!

apt-get install xorg alsa-base oss-compat sudo gksu

Add yourself to the sudoers list via visudo...

visudo

Arrow down to right below the line that says "root ALL=(ALL) ALL" and type the same, only replace "root" with your user name...

hhh ALL=(ALL) ALL

type [Ctrl+o], type [Backspace] 4 times so the file name is "/etc/sudoers", type [Enter], type "y" (ignore the message about sudoers.tmp), type [Ctrl+x].

Installing the rest of your packages with --no-install-recommends will keep your system smaller. If disk space isn't important, allow recommended packages for your major components (thunar, for example) since it's easier to remove a package than it is to hunt down some missing library. These threads have info on what you might install...
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=14684 (sections 5, 6 and 7)
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic. … 08#p418508

I'm not using the provided openbox-session, I'm creating my own. I'm sure the exact same setup can be done using openbox-session, it would just be configured differently. I'm using lightdm to start sessions and set the wallpaper (you could do the same with startx/ exec ob-session in ~./xinitrc and feh for the wallpaper), it reads desktop files in /usr/share/xsessions, I have an entry called Openbox, I modified the content...

[Desktop Entry]
Name=Openbox
Comment=Log in using the Openbox window manager (without a session manager)
Exec=/usr/local/bin/ob-session
TryExec=/usr/local/bin/ob-session
Icon=openbox
Type=Application

I created the file /usr/local/bin/ob-session and added this content before making it executable...

#!/bin/bash
#if test -z "$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS"; then
#    eval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session`
#fi
openbox & wmpid=$!
sleep 1
if [ -f ~/.openbox-session ]; then
    source ~/.openbox-session &
else
    xfce4-terminal &
fi
# Wait for WM
wait $wmpid

This script is originally from the Ubuntu Community Wiki on Compiz Standalone, I use it for any stand-alone session I create. The dbus part is commented out because systemd starts dbus, I left it for reference. The .openbox-session file is where your startup daemons and apps can go. If it doesn't exists, xfce4-terminal opens so you can do something in the session, change that command to whatever terminal you use.

Create ~/.openbox-session, mine includes the following...

setxkbmap -option ctrl:nocaps &
xfsettingsd &
nm-applet &
thunar --daemon &
lxpanel &
compton -cC -r8 -l-10 -t-10 -f -D3 &
xfce4-volumed &
xfce4-power-manager &

xfsettingsd handles pretty much all settings excluding Openbox settings (xfce4-settings is the package to download, xfce4-settings-manager is the command to launch the GUI). Starting xfce4-volumed (keyboard volume and mute keys) also starts xfce4-notifyd (the notification daemon). Of course, most of you will substitute tint2 for lxpanel.

Easy peasy.

Last edited by hhh (2015-02-12 15:10:47)

Sector11 · 2015-02-10 22:04:12

Nice stuff!

johnraff · 2015-02-11 00:15:42

Oh cool. We could have a custom session on the DM's menu, independent of the default openbox-session or Gnome or XFCE ... That's what this is about, right? Keeping the placeholdername session a bit disentangled from the general system, so it can co-exist more cleanly with other desktop environments that might be available?

user77 · 2015-02-11 02:08:59

Be fruitful and prosper, as corenominal wishes. Install jessie, install openbox and your other session components, configure them and explain what you did. Post screenshots in the Screenshot thread.

I'm on board with this. I started tuning a system and install scripts last night... but I am using sid. Using Jessie is where you guys are trying to steer people?

hhh · 2015-02-11 05:55:26

johnraff wrote:

Oh cool. We could have a custom session on the DM's menu, independent of the default openbox-session or Gnome or XFCE ... That's what this is about, right? Keeping the placeholdername session a bit disentangled from the general system, so it can co-exist more cleanly with other desktop environments that might be available?

Yes, you can add standalone sesssions as you like, just change the window manager and dot-file name in the script, rename them (to xfwm4-session and ~/.xfwm4-session, for instance), callthe new session from the display manager or startx (exec xfwm4-session in ~.xinitrc, for example) and you're good. I set all my preferences in xfce4-settings-manager (appearance, display, keyboard, mouse/touchpad, power manager, notification appearance, etc...) and then I can run any window manager as a standalone session with it's own startup programs, so I can use a different panel with a certain window manager, for instance, and those settings will persist as long as I put xfsettingsd in there. I've avoided installing GNOME, KDE or even LXDE because then you get settings set in different ways and things get a bit screwy. lxappearance uses ~./gtkrc-2.0, the others all use their own config files for theming, for example.

So choose one and go for it. Mate is a good option, I installed mate and it's pretty low on resource usage. I like xfce4 as it's even less resource hungry than mate, it's pretty dang modular and I'm very familiar with it. Here are the xfce programs I have installed...

ii  xfce-keyboard-shortcuts        4.10.0-6             all                  xfce keyboard shortcuts configuration
ii  xfce4-appfinder                4.10.1-1             i386                 Application finder for the Xfce4 Desktop Environment
ii  xfce4-mixer                    4.10.0-3             i386                 Xfce mixer application
ii  xfce4-notifyd                  0.2.4-3              i386                 simple, visually-appealing notification daemon for Xfce
ii  xfce4-panel                    4.10.1-1             i386                 panel for Xfce4 desktop environment
ii  xfce4-power-manager            1.4.1-1              i386                 power manager for Xfce desktop
ii  xfce4-power-manager-data       1.4.1-1              all                  power manager for Xfce desktop, arch-indep files
ii  xfce4-screenshooter            1.8.1-5              i386                 screenshots utility for Xfce
ii  xfce4-settings                 4.10.1-2             i386                 graphical application for managing Xfce settings
ii  xfce4-taskmanager              1.0.1-1              i386                 process manager for the Xfce4 Desktop Environment
ii  xfce4-terminal                 0.6.3-1+b1           i386                 Xfce terminal emulator
ii  xfce4-volumed

You don't need all these. I only have xfce4-panel because the mixer is dependant on it, I like xfce's run dialog but I'm using gmrun in my openbox session, scrot replaces xfce4-screenshooter, xfce4-taskmanager and xfce4-terminal are optional, you could go without power management if you were on a desktop...

Last edited by hhh (2015-02-11 08:37:51)

hhh · 2015-02-11 06:06:25

user77 wrote:

Using Jessie is where you guys are trying to steer people?

Everyone should run what they want. I installed jessie right after it froze in November because...

~it's frozen, it's about as stable as wheezy is with much newer packages.
~it's almost the same as sid right now, because sid gets frozen while everyone pushes jessie.
~in a few months when jessie becomes stable, sid is going to be a panic, since packages held up by the freeze will come flooding in.
~when jessie gets older and the packages get a bit stale, I'll jump to testing again and then track that to the next stable.

Tracking sid (and testing once jessie is stable) is great, but you need to do a little extra work by upgrading frequently and checking the upgrade warnings first.

Snap · 2015-02-11 07:32:51

~when jessie gets older and the packages get a bit stale, I'll jump to testing again and then track that to the next stable.

That's my own schedule too. What I did about a year ago with Wheezy/Jessie and what I'll do with Jessie/Zurg when the time comes.

I'm using lightdm to start sessions and set the wallpaper

Interesting tip. Using lightdm to set the wallpaper simplifies and unifies things. Smart move. Going to try it right now. Thanks!

Great job, hhh. It's nice to see the different approaches. I totally favor leaving it open for different sessions even if I don't plan to use more than one WM or DE in advance. I use to set a ~/.xinitrc for the same purposes. Even if it's only a single WM there, but ready to go if needed.

hhh · 2015-02-11 08:08:11

user77 wrote:

I'm on board with this. I started tuning a system and install scripts last night... but I am using sid. Using Jessie is where you guys are trying to steer people?

I changed the thread title to include sid, word!

@snap, thanks! I'm really looking forward to seeing what other people do, machine bacon did a sid/openbox bbq release a few days ago with no systemd and sud-50MB ram usage. If I were truly hardcore, I'd wipe everything I had and go with that. :^D

pvsage · 2015-02-11 08:09:28

On a side note, I've noticed that LightDM has at least a couple accessibility options, with large font being available out of the box on an LXDE install and large font & high contrast available when other DEs are installed (e.g. from the DVD). I think accessibility should be a consideration when making something that may eventually become repackaged and distributed to the general public.

Remastering question: On the installation that is to be remastered, does it matter whether /home is on the same partition as / or on a separate partition?

hhh · 2015-02-11 08:13:58

pvsage wrote:

Remastering question: On the installation that is to be remastered, does it matter whether /home is on the same partition as / or on a separate partition?

Couldn't tell you, I've never used a partitioning scheme other than /.

Snap · 2015-02-11 08:31:56

machine bacon did a sid/openbox bbq release a few days ago with no systemd and sud-50MB ram usage. If I were truly hardcore, I'd wipe everything I had and go with that. :^D

Wow, No systemd, that's pretty hardcore. More Devuan than Debian if you ask me.

For anyone targeting Sid it might be a good idea starting from Vsido and replacing FluxBox for OpenBox (or keeping both) and throwing the CB goodies there. You'll have most of the hard job already done by VastOne (Great job BTW). I did it some time ago in a virtual machine. Great stuff.

user77 · 2015-02-11 18:52:00

hhh wrote:

user77 wrote:
Using Jessie is where you guys are trying to steer people?
Everyone should run what they want. I installed jessie right after it froze in November because...
~it's frozen, it's about as stable as wheezy is with much newer packages.
~it's almost the same as sid right now, because sid gets frozen while everyone pushes jessie.
~in a few months when jessie becomes stable, sid is going to be a panic, since packages held up by the freeze will come flooding in.
~when jessie gets older and the packages get a bit stale, I'll jump to testing again and then track that to the next stable.
Tracking sid (and testing once jessie is stable) is great, but you need to do a little extra work by upgrading frequently and checking the upgrade warnings first.

Good info, I didn't realize where jessie was at stability/package wise. Debian is not my main distro anymore but I used to build custom debian systems a while back, and wanted to do another as a #! tribute or whatever. I hope to have my work posted later tonight.

user77 · 2015-02-11 18:55:56

^^ linuxbbq bork by machinebacon looks good!

Last edited by user77 (2015-02-12 14:49:21)

hhh · 2015-02-11 21:35:14

I just added a standalone xfwm4 session. Initially I got a grey desktop, I think this is because I previously had xfdesktop4 installed and so xfsetttingsd was "remembering" it. The solution was to kill xfsettingsd and then restart it.

So now I have 3 sessions; openbox, xfwm4 and fusilli (shown previously in the screenshot thread). The idle RAM usage for all of them at boot/login is under 86MB out of 994MB installed. Idle after some usage is between 100 and 120 on average. The experience is like using a full desktop environment, for example plugging in a USB drive shows it happening in Thunar thanks to gvfs being installed...

hotlink host

Note that xfwm4-session in that scrot is the script I'm using, not actual xfce4-session.

Here's a tip for a more #! feel that I don't think I've ever seen posted on these forums; when I used #! I noticed that gksu foo didn't ask for the root password or whether you want that password saved, but asks for the sudo password instead. You can have that behavior by running the following in terminal...

gconftool-2 --set /apps/gksu/sudo-mode --type bool true

Run it with bool false to reset it.

lxpanel's battery montior has an "Alarm command" option to send a notification when the battery is low. I use...

notify-send -u critical -i battery-caution 'LOW BATTERY !!!' 'Time to plug in.'

The -u critical option in that command means the user has to click the notification to dismiss it, it won't automatically time-out. -i battery-caution is the icon to be displayed.

Hope that helps!

hhh · 2015-02-11 21:51:40

Oh yeah, logout/reboot/shutdown commands. I bind mine to keyboard keys and the power button (XF86PowerOff on my netbook). If you use systemd, you can run reboot and shutdown without a password prompt...

systemctl reboot

systemctl poweroff

To logout without a confirmation prompt, just kill the script that started the session...

pkill xfwm4-session

I keybind these commands to something I'm not going to hit accidentally.

El Cruncho · 2015-02-11 23:33:43

That linuxbbq logo looks a bit weird (Tux in front of a huge fire). Either the penguin is burning in hell and is loving it,
or it decided that Goku's face was a comfortable place to take a break on.

Back on the more serious track: I didn't expect to have to rebuild what I'd consider basic functions. Which are very subjective anyway. It might be harder than expected, but interesting nonetheless.

johnraff · 2015-02-11 23:37:05

hhh wrote:

I just added a standalone xfwm4 session. Initially I got a grey desktop, I think this is because I previously had xfdesktop4 installed and so xfsetttingsd was "remembering" it. The solution was to kill xfsettingsd and then restart it.

I think this is the one thing that's been irritating me the most about XFCE. Something about the way sessions are "remembered". If you try to save your session when shutting down, along with open windows you want kept, things like conky get saved too so over time you can get a pile of simultaneous conkys which you can't see till you look in htop or somewhere. xfce4-session? xfsettingsd? Haven't used it for some time though, so maybe these days there's a way of exempting processes that get started at every session from being "saved" this way.

btw for these systemctl commands to work without a password you need to have policykit-1 installed. XFCE will have brought it in for sure anyway.

That gksu setting, I used these commands with the same effect:

# make sure gksu runs in sudo mode
sudo update-alternatives --set libgksu-gconf-defaults /usr/share/libgksu/debian/gconf-defaults.libgksu-sudo
sudo update-gconf-defaults

I guess it's the same thing underneath.

Snap · 2015-02-12 00:11:29

I think this is the one thing that's been irritating me the most about XFCE. Something about the way sessions are "remembered".

Exactly the same for me. Cannot stand it.

@ hhh: Great report. I try to stay away from the xfce bits as much as possible, but a very interesting reading anyway. Great job.

hhh · 2015-02-12 00:42:42

@john, thanks for the pointers. I remember reading about the need for policykit in the Arch wiki. The weirdness in Xfce you describe is from xfce4-session, which has a bit of a learning curve to make it do what you want. My wallpaper glitch was from having xfdestop4 previously installed.

@snap, thanks!

hhh · 2015-02-12 03:37:15

johnraff wrote:

Haven't used it for some time though, so maybe these days there's a way of exempting processes that get started at every session from being "saved" this way.

Going from memory, in "Settings>Sessions and Startup>Sessions" right-click "conky" (for example) and set it to "Never". Then make sure you don't have the logout dialog's checkbox checked for "Remember this session". Or something like that.

johnraff · 2015-02-12 03:55:57

hhh wrote:

Then make sure you don't have the logout dialog's checkbox checked for "Remember this session".

Aye there's the rub. That setting is basically useless because of all the problems it causes. Some people might actually want to have their session remembered - without all the cruft, that is.

user77 · 2015-02-12 04:29:05

Here are the packages I would use on a crunchbang like system. I'm stopping here.

#!/bin/bash

# This script upgrades a Debian stable (Wheezy) net-install to testing (Jessie)
# and installs a custom package set.

# This script is intended to be ran as root
# This script assumes no options were selected during tasksel

function header() { echo -e "\n\033[1m$@\033[0m"; }
function answer() { echo -en "\n\033[1m$@\033[0m"; }

# install_pkg {{{
function install_pkg() {
  header "Installing packages."
  echo "This will take a few..."
  apt-get install -y --no-install-recommends \
  ssh tcpd openssh-blacklist openssh-blacklist-extra vim vim-doc vim-scripts \
  vim-addon-manager less deborphan debfoster apt-file python-apt lsb-release \
  file iso-codes dialog cruft apt-rdepends reportbug apt-show-versions \
  dctrl-tools fakeroot ca-certificates linux-headers-$(uname -r) dkms
  apt-get install -y --no-install-recommends \
  htop build-essential module-assistant tofrodos dosfstools hdparm ntfs-3g \
  rsync bash-doc zsh zsh-doc hwdata unp psmisc bzip2 p7zip rar unrar unzip \
  zip p7zip-full lzop lzip lzma ntp fontconfig lshw dnsutils sshfs screen \
  tmux lsof bash-completion parted gdisk atop sudo firmware-linux \
  firmware-linux-nonfree
  apt-get install -y --no-install-recommends \
  xorg mesa-utils xbase-clients xsel dbus-x11 xfonts-terminus gsfonts-x11 \
  ttf-dejavu ttf-liberation ttf-freefont fonts-droid libgl1-mesa-dri xdotool \
  desktop-base gnome-icon-theme faenza-icon-theme dmz-cursor-theme unclutter \
  libfile-mimeinfo-perl menu-l10n autocutsel alsa-base alsa-utils \
  libasound2-plugins
  apt-get install -y --no-install-recommends \
  mlocate atool ranger tree rxvt-unicode-256color feh scrot suckless-tools \
  conky-all mpv mpd mpc ncmpcpp w3m-img surfraw gtk2-engines \
  gtk2-engines-murrine gtk2-engines-pixbuf gtk2-engines-aurora openbox obconf \
  obmenu python-xdg lxappearance tint2 gmrun vim-gtk nitrogen galculator \
  xfce4-screenshooter viewnior gcolor2 gimp zathura zenity udisks gksu \
  gparted git spacefm udevil ranger
  apt-get install -y -t experimental iceweasel
  service mpd stop
  update-rc.d mpd disable
}

# }}}
# mozilla {{{
function mozilla() {
  header "Installing Mozilla keyring..."
  wget http://mozilla.debian.net/pkg-mozilla-archive-keyring_1.0_all.deb;
  dpkg --install pkg-mozilla-archive-keyring_1.0_all.deb
}

# }}}
# system_cleanup {{{
function system_cleanup() {
  header "Cleaning up..."
  apt-get clean; apt-get autoremove --purge -y
}

# }}}
# system_reboot {{{
function system_reboot() {
answer "System requires a reboot. Reboot now? (Y|n) >"
read a
  if [ "$a" = "y" ] || [ "$a" = "Y" ] || [ "$a" = "" ]; then
    reboot
  else
    echo "Reboot when ready. Cya!"
  fi
}

# }}}
# system_sources {{{
function system_sources() {
  # Backup original sources.list
  if [ -f /etc/apt/sources.list ]; then
   cp -f /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list~prescript
  fi
  # New sources.list generated with http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/
  # Select your fastest Debian mirror with netselect-apt...
  # tutorial here: http://www.debianadmin.com/select-fastest-debian-mirror-using-netselect-apt.html
  echo "" > /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb http://mirrors.centarra.com/debian/ testing main contrib non-free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb-src http://mirrors.centarra.com/debian/ testing main contrib non-free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb http://mirrors.centarra.com/debian/ jessie-updates main contrib non-free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb-src http://mirrors.centarra.com/debian/ jessie-updates main contrib non-free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "# Debian Multimedia" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb http://www.las.ic.unicamp.br/pub/debian-multimedia/ testing main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "# Debian Mozilla team" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
  echo "deb http://mirrors.centarra.com/debian experimental main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
}

# }}}
# system_upgrade {{{
function system_upgrade() {
  header "Performing system upgrade."
  echo "This will take a few..."
  echo ""
  apt-get update
  echo ""
  apt-get dist-upgrade -y
}

# }}}
# user_rights {{{
# TODO: automate this
function user_rights() {
answer "Add user(s) to sudoers now? (Y|n) >"
read a
  if [ "$a" = "y" ] || [ "$a" = "Y" ] || [ "$a" = "" ]; then
    visudo
  fi
}

# }}}

clear
echo "This script will upgrade your system to Debian testing (Jessie)"
echo "and install a custom package set."
answer "Continue? (Y|n) > "
read a
if [ "$a" = "y" ] || [ "$a" = "Y" ] || [ "$a" = "" ]; then
  system_sources
  system_upgrade
  mozilla
  install_pkg
  system_cleanup
  user_rights
  system_reboot
  echo ""
  exit
fi

Last edited by user77 (2015-02-12 14:51:09)

johnraff · 2015-02-12 07:37:05

A sort of tutorial to get a Waldorf clone on Jessie:
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic. … 64#p418464
The last part isn't written yet, but at the moment it will get you the normal #! interface, both in general appearance (theme isn't exactly the same) and functions. All the keyboard shortcuts and most of the menu items, including pipemenus, work OK.
A look:

NB No attempt has been made at this point to "improve" on #! - in the choice of apps, or optimizing menus etc (eg substituting x-terminal-emulator for terminator). All that will come later. The only real change is LightDM instead of Slim. That just seems inevitable with the switch to systemd.

Last edited by johnraff (2015-02-12 07:41:01)

hhh · 2015-02-12 14:39:57

@User77, thanks for posting that!

@johnraff, great job, I posted a comment in your thread.

GTK3 themes are a fustercluck, they break with every GNOME upgrade. You can avoid this in jessie by sticking to the one's available in the repos...
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/mate-themes

If you don't want to install the entire theme package, which includes icons, wallpapers, openbox and metacity/marco themes, you can download the deb file, extract it, open the extracted folder and navigate to /usr/share/themes, remove the bits you don't want and then copy the themes to your own /usr/share/themes directory. You can also install them in ~/.themes but the automnenomics (underlined letters in menus that indicate keyboard shortcuts) will always be visible. If the theme is in /usr/share/themes they are only visible when you press the Alt key, the same behavior as in gtk2 themes always.

johnraff · 2015-02-12 14:49:24

Wally now calling for testers! Any feedback will be really useful for future development of Bunsen (I think).

CrunchBang Linux

SEARCH

#1 2015-02-10 20:18:57

Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#2 2015-02-10 22:04:12

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#3 2015-02-11 00:15:42

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#4 2015-02-11 02:08:59

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#5 2015-02-11 05:55:26

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#6 2015-02-11 06:06:25

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#7 2015-02-11 07:32:51

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#8 2015-02-11 08:08:11

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#9 2015-02-11 08:09:28

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#10 2015-02-11 08:13:58

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#11 2015-02-11 08:31:56

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#12 2015-02-11 18:52:00

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#13 2015-02-11 18:55:56

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#14 2015-02-11 21:35:14

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#15 2015-02-11 21:51:40

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#16 2015-02-11 23:33:43

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#17 2015-02-11 23:37:05

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#18 2015-02-12 00:11:29

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#19 2015-02-12 00:42:42

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#20 2015-02-12 03:37:15

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#21 2015-02-12 03:55:57

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#22 2015-02-12 04:29:05

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#23 2015-02-12 07:37:05

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#24 2015-02-12 14:39:57

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

#25 2015-02-12 14:49:24

Re: Your Openbox session on Debian jessie or sid

Board footer