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#251 2014-11-03 09:01:56

josephg
#! CrunchBanger
From: Surrey
Registered: 2011-10-24
Posts: 165
Website

Re: boycott systemd

Last edited by josephg (2014-11-03 09:20:52)


leaner code is cleaner code is more efficient code

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#252 2014-11-03 10:36:35

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: boycott systemd

AFAIK OpenBSD only has plans for a compatibility layer; they don't plan on supporting booting with systemd.

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#253 2014-11-03 10:41:42

hashbanger
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2011-11-28
Posts: 243

Re: boycott systemd

OpenBSD plans an API-compliant replacement for systemd calls without actually implementing systemd components.

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#254 2014-11-03 11:26:02

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,207

Re: boycott systemd

Last edited by gutterslob (2014-11-03 11:32:57)


Point & Squirt

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#255 2014-11-03 11:46:00

josephg
#! CrunchBanger
From: Surrey
Registered: 2011-10-24
Posts: 165
Website

Re: boycott systemd

$ dpkg -l | grep gnome
ii  gir1.2-gnomebluetooth-1.0            3.4.2-1                            i386         Introspection data for GnomeBluetooth
ii  gnome-bluetooth                      3.4.2-1                            i386         GNOME Bluetooth tools
ii  gnome-icon-theme                     3.4.0-2                            all          GNOME Desktop icon theme
ii  gnome-mplayer                        1.0.6-1                            i386         GTK+ interface for MPlayer
ii  libgmlib0:i386                       1.0.6-1                            i386         gnome-mplayer library (shared library)
ii  libgmtk0:i386                        1.0.6-1                            i386         gnome-mplayer toolkit (shared library)
ii  libgmtk0-data                        1.0.6-1                            all          gnome-mplayer toolkit (common files)
ii  libgnome-bluetooth10                 3.4.2-1                            i386         GNOME Bluetooth tools - support library
ii  libgnome-keyring-common              3.4.1-1                            all          GNOME keyring services library - data files
ii  libgnome-keyring0:i386               3.4.1-1                            i386         GNOME keyring services library
ii  libpam-gnome-keyring                 3.4.1-5                            i386         PAM module to unlock the GNOME keyring upon login
ii  libsoup-gnome2.4-1:i386              2.38.1-3                           i386         HTTP library implementation in C -- GNOME support library
ii  network-manager-gnome                0.9.4.1-5                          i386         network management framework (GNOME frontend)
ii  network-manager-openvpn-gnome        0.9.4.0-1                          i386         network management framework (OpenVPN plugin GNOME GUI)
ii  network-manager-pptp-gnome           0.9.4.0-2                          i386         network management framework (PPTP plugin GNOME GUI)
ii  network-manager-vpnc-gnome           0.9.4.0-1                          i386         network management framework (VPNC plugin GNOME GUI)
ii  policykit-1-gnome

Last edited by josephg (2014-11-03 12:17:24)


leaner code is cleaner code is more efficient code

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#256 2014-11-03 14:03:28

ratcheer
#! Junkie
From: central Alabama
Registered: 2013-07-23
Posts: 338

Re: boycott systemd

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#257 2014-11-07 08:09:52

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: boycott systemd

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#258 2014-11-07 22:41:31

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

It remains to be seen if the other distros can hold out forever. Red Hat is a major upstream contributor, and we still don't really know how much of the system they plan on making systemd dependent. Pottering has expressed one of his goals is to homoginize the distros. Supposedly, they are re-thinking package management as well. I wonder if they can force that via systemd. It really feels like they just want everybody to run Red Hat with a Debian or Arch or whatever branding stamped on it. I am truly worried about the future of the Linux Distro. I am only speculating, but if Red Hat were to succeed in pushing such an agenda, I think it would be time to let Linux die a graceful death. I mean, if it turns out that is the case, it would be very hard for the distros that adopted it to back out without having to be set back by an order of magnitude. Sure, you can just switch Init systems, but you would also have to come up with some solution for every piece that systemd has swallowed in the last few years, or rely on things like shims, but that feels like a very inelegant solution -ie a stop-gap measure rather than a permanent solution.

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#259 2014-11-07 22:42:52

exidux
#! CrunchBanger
From: Your screen.
Registered: 2014-09-05
Posts: 202
Website

Re: boycott systemd

i think i read somewhere that the man behind crunchbang is tired of the systemd talk, and i
think he yawned or something.   devil

Well, that will be my most important and deepest contribution to the topic.
* next to the other posts a while back.

Last edited by exidux (2014-11-07 22:46:02)


~ When jessie hits stable you could upgrade crunchbang and keep it alive a bit longer.

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#260 2014-11-07 22:52:11

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 1,007

Re: boycott systemd

As others have already explained, if you understand your system, it is quite easy to use another init, regardless of "every piece that systemd has swallowed in the past few years" -- it is even easy to use busybox or openrc init on Arch, one of the distros that has completely adopted systemd. Far from limiting choice, systemd has spawned the creation of many alternate init systems. But the haters won't want to accept this, so this will be my last post on this subject.

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#261 2014-11-08 10:39:52

twoion
Emerald Caffeine
From: 星界
Registered: 2012-05-11
Posts: 1,648

Re: boycott systemd

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#262 2014-11-08 18:16:28

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

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#263 2014-11-08 18:49:38

jeffreyC
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2010-09-02
Posts: 596

Re: boycott systemd


There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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#264 2014-11-08 18:53:33

jeffreyC
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2010-09-02
Posts: 596

Re: boycott systemd


There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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#265 2014-11-08 22:36:46

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

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#266 2014-11-09 00:01:00

Anaconda
crypto-anarchist
From: Vancouver Canada
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 437

Re: boycott systemd

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#267 2014-11-09 02:12:11

Alad
Software Satan
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 1,512

Re: boycott systemd

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#268 2014-11-09 03:17:27

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

I wasn't trying to "flamebait", as you put it. Arguing this any further would be unproductive. If I have offended you somehow, then I apologize. It was never my intention.

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#269 2014-11-09 03:51:51

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: boycott systemd

Quick (general) reminder, people are going to have different opinions, but as much as possible, keep it to the argument itself, not the person posting. Thanks.

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#270 2014-11-09 13:44:01

common-sense
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2014-09-08
Posts: 130

Re: boycott systemd

It seems like systemd debates has the potential to emulate os-debates. fanboys on both sides, and just a few that's looking at it with open minds. What's up with those that always seems to think that what IS, will always be best... EFI sucks, systemd, sucks, yes, pretty much every major improvement sucks. But give them a few years, and they love the new stuff too...

It's just like the people who hate W8. If you put them on a W 3.11 system, they would all admit that everything wasn't better before smile

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#271 2014-11-09 19:32:29

exidux
#! CrunchBanger
From: Your screen.
Registered: 2014-09-05
Posts: 202
Website

Re: boycott systemd


~ When jessie hits stable you could upgrade crunchbang and keep it alive a bit longer.

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#272 2014-11-09 20:07:41

jeffreyC
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2010-09-02
Posts: 596

Re: boycott systemd


There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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#273 2014-11-09 20:37:25

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

I don't dislike systemd because it's new or different. I dislike it for reducing my freedom of choice to zero. Not trying to be argumentative, but I realize there are many init systems to choose from. That's not the point, the point is that as long as it continues to not only absorb other parts of the system that have nothing to do with init, and software continues to be made dependent on it, then those other init systems will be broken. No one has the manpower to fork and maintain separate non-systemd dependent versions of all the software needed to make a complete distro. I respect others right to choose to install and use systemd if that's what they want. All I ask for is the same respect for my freedom to choose something else. Unfortunately, I believe that at this point it is moot. Unless something big changes in the future, it's pretty clear that systemd has won. We will be able to choose something else for a while, but eventually everything is going to be dependent on it eventually, and that saddens me greatly.

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#274 2014-11-09 22:06:16

jeffreyC
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2010-09-02
Posts: 596

Re: boycott systemd

Looking at their plans systemd will become the layer between the kernel and everything else.
It is being made a dependency of more and more things.

At some point it will be impossible (or more work than anyone will do) to have a Linux system without systemd.
Then whoever controls systemd controls Linux.


There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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#275 2014-11-09 23:06:16

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

That would be Red Hat. I wonder at the future of BSD as well. A lot of software is developed for Linux, then ported to BSD. Curious to see how that mess will play out.

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