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#1 2014-06-12 15:49:47

oulr
New Member
Registered: 2014-06-12
Posts: 3

Is CrunchBang really free software?

Hi people,

I've just discovered CrunchBang a few days ago, and I like it. I think it will look really nice on my laptop. But I still have a question: is CrunchBang free software? I suppose it is, but in that case, where is the source code, and why is so difficult to find? And where is the information about its license?

Hope you can help me, and sorry if I missed something.

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#2 2014-06-12 16:04:23

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Send a message to corenominal, the lead developer. He'll be able to help you out there.


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#3 2014-06-12 16:05:37

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Crunchbang is based on Debian, so get the source from there. The scripts that make it the distro it is are not hidden, and are all editable, afaik.

Debian Contract

Last edited by damo (2014-06-12 16:06:42)


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#4 2014-06-12 17:37:15

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

If you edit your /etc/apt/sources.list & un-comment (remove the "#") the "deb-src" lines, you can download the source code for the packages with:

apt-get source <name of package>

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#5 2014-06-12 19:15:38

Alad
Software Satan
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 1,512

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Crunchbang is based on Debian Wheezy, which is licensed under GPL (and other DFSG* compatible software). Some less-than-free stuffs (like proprietary drivers) are available in the contrib (depends on non-free) and non-free repo sections. These, and several packages from them (drivers, Flash) are enabled by default in Crunchbang (you can check with the vrms package).

From what I've seen, specific Waldorf additions (in the Waldorf repo) are licensed under WTFPL (Do What the Fuck You Want to Public License) or GPL 2.

* As commendable as DFSG is, it's a pain for its users especially regarding multimedia. Hence you might look at additional, third-party repos such as:

http://www.deb-multimedia.org/

Last edited by Alad (2014-06-12 19:28:14)

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#6 2014-06-12 19:56:50

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

@OP:  This thread is actually quite similar to another one...that I can't seem to find at the moment...

Anyway, most of the above posts should address your concerns - CrunchBang is Debian + some text config files and a handful of specially compiled binaries.  The URLs in /etc/apt/sources.list will take you to the sources, but here's a direct link to the Waldorf packages:
http://packages.crunchbang.org/waldorf/pool/main/
The source packages are all .tar.gz.

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#7 2014-06-12 23:22:01

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 1,007

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

pvsage wrote:

@OP:  This thread is actually quite similar to another one...that I can't seem to find at the moment...

This topic, perhaps? http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=27776

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#8 2014-06-13 04:49:40

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

^ That's the one - thanks for finding it!

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#9 2014-06-13 05:09:26

uname
#! Junkie
Registered: 2013-03-15
Posts: 484

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

It was my question. I wanted to rebuild the ISO. Nobody posted the debian-live-build-configuration. I think this part is not free.

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#10 2014-06-13 05:30:16

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

@uname:  My sincerest apologies that corenominal never responded in that thread.  Rather inconveniently, he happens to be out on holiday now as well; I'll try to make sure he sees this thread when he gets back.  In the meantime, does this address your concerns regarding the live build:

~$ apt-cache policy live-build
live-build:
  Installed: 3.0~a58-1crunchbang
  Candidate: 3.0~a58-1crunchbang
  Version table:
     3.0.5-1 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages
 *** 3.0~a58-1crunchbang 0
       1001 http://packages.crunchbang.org/waldorf/ waldorf/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
~$ aptitude show live-build
Package: live-build               
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Version: 3.0~a58-1crunchbang
Priority: optional
Section: misc
Maintainer: Debian Live Project <debian-live@lists.debian.org>
Architecture: all
Uncompressed Size: 819 k
Depends: debootstrap | cdebootstrap | cdebootstrap-static
Recommends: live-boot-doc, live-config-doc, live-manual-html | live-manual,
            cpio, gnu-fdisk
Suggests: dosfstools, genisoimage, git, memtest86+ | memtest86, mtools, parted,
          squashfs-tools | mtd-tools, sudo | fakeroot, syslinux | grub,
          uuid-runtime, win32-loader
Description: Debian Live - System build scripts
 live-build contains the scripts that build a Debian Live system image from a
 configuration directory.
Homepage: http://live.debian.net/devel/live-build/

...or are you looking for the actual build script that corenominal used?

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#11 2014-06-13 07:16:43

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,826
Website

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Probably uname means the configuration files and hooks that live-build uses. Not that it is not free, but they are no shared. Which is quite understandable, because of many reasons: firstly, this is what makes #! different from Debian. If the live-build configs would be available, people would change them and create their own remasters, possibly write something like "Thanks papanom for the configs", but most probably not give much back (I talk of cash). And this is the second reason, IMO: keeping the #! distro alive with all its infrastructure consts quite a lot of money. There is a repo, the hosting for the website itself, the forums, of course the developer needs some form of revenue, like donations and such. Thirdly, IMO again, there is also some kind of pride. Anyone who worked with live-build knows how much work and try and error it takes to make it work as it should. Anybody who has created a repository for Debian knows that maintaining it can not be done in a few minutes. It's probably part of Philip's living, so the users should respect (as in: accept) it and read up on how to work with live-build (which is admittedly a PITA if you have no configs you can copy and paste from). Making the so-called "build-scripts" available would be like publishing the Coca-Cola recipe. Of course, Coke would still be Coke, but it would automatically mean a loss of market share. And this is where the cash comes in, and it is understandable to ask for donations while not publishing the method something is produced. After all, it is all *for free*. wink


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#12 2014-06-13 07:29:49

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

^ ...and you know first-hand of what you speak, having personally developed many live ISOs as part of your BBQ project (including a few with a similar look & feel to CrunchBang itself). wink

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#13 2014-06-13 07:37:17

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,826
Website

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Yes, PV, it was obvious you would mention it wink They are not just similar, but shameless copies of the config files to run on Unstable - and a sid version, as we know, is still not existing in the official #! project. And maybe another fun fact: the BBQ members donate $$$ to other distributions (for example #! or siduction). Until now, keeping the grill alive has cost me money, and I didn't get any revenue. So, let's keep it fair.

Back to topic: As for live-build related stuff, uname can check Yoyage Linux (not Voyager!), the gentleman has his build scripts on the website (see Development section), so you can work wth them and have a look how he uses them to create customizations pre- and post installation.


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#14 2014-06-13 19:13:47

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

But surely anyone in free software for the money needs his/her head testing? I know mine does and I'm not even in it for the money (I'm in it for the bitches and bling, in case you wondered).

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#15 2014-06-13 23:45:30

oulr
New Member
Registered: 2014-06-12
Posts: 3

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Thank you all for the info!

I think now I'm quite sure that Crunchbang is free software. It is good to see that it also has such an active community wink

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#16 2014-06-17 02:26:24

coffee_guy
Member
Registered: 2013-10-30
Posts: 36

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Oh god, I'm going to sound like a neck beard here but something something free as in beer vs free as in speech.  Crunchbang isn't totally free because it includes MP3 playback and whatnot.  MP3 isn't open source.  Some people get really pissy about this sort of thing,  I don't have a problem with closed source drivers for my video card or wifi or the ability to watch flash or listen to MP3s instead of FLAC.
Crunchbang is free and awesome.  If you want to learn more about the difference and whatnot, just look up Richard Stallman.  Yes he is is that kind of nerd who wants to constantly point out that it is GNU/Linux not just plain ol Linux but it is cute and lovable like how we need strict libertarians even if they are really out there just to give a frame of reference to the other end of the spectrum.

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#17 2014-06-17 07:11:35

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Just to echo what coffe_guy has said, see also:
gNewSense --- also based on Debian Stable.
Parabola --- for any Arch fans...
These are free as in speech smile

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#18 2014-06-17 14:39:46

uname
#! Junkie
Registered: 2013-03-15
Posts: 484

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Because of no live-configuration and source code for all the crunchbang stuff it is possible that Cruchbang is programmed from NSA ;-)

Last edited by uname (2014-06-17 14:40:28)

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#19 2014-06-17 18:17:52

Alad
Software Satan
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 1,512

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

^ Well I guess that's a funny joke but saying that about a distrolet that's based on Debian is just a little ironic me thinks.

But you're free to read the live-config manual, make something that resembles or outshines #! and share your work to the community.

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#20 2014-06-19 22:50:55

oulr
New Member
Registered: 2014-06-12
Posts: 3

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Well, actually I was waiting for something like what coffe_guy said. I do know the difference between "free as in speech" (or "free as in freedom", as I like to say) and "free as in beer". I have read a number of Stallman's essays, and I fully agree with Free Software ideals.

I understand that sometimes it is just not possible to run an OS 100% free as in freedom. We all have our basic needs, and if we can't meet them with free software, we'll have to use proprietary. It's all about how much we want to sacrifice. For example, if I don't care a lot about multimedia, maybe I can use free drivers and assume loss of some multimedia features. But if I work every day with multimedia, maybe I can't afford that loss, and have to install proprietary drivers. Because of this, I think that distros like CrunchBang are nice despite of including non-free drivers and stuff like that. But, as coffe_guy said, it is good to have in the horizon the pure and beautiful ideas of freedom that guys like Stallman spread around. It should be a reference for us, even though we never reach that point in practice.

In my particular case, I'm just wondering how far I can get using only free software... wink That was the reason for my question. Stuff like the distros approved by FSF that Head_on_a_Stick mentioned, Debian without non-free repos, etc.

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#21 2014-06-19 23:37:47

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Just to echo what coffe_guy has said, see also:
gNewSense --- also based on Debian Stable.
Parabola --- for any Arch fans...
These are free as in speech smile

"free as in freedom." There is also Trisquel, which I think the FSF hands out on their live USB membership cards (I have one from several years ago) and a couple of others.

If you can live your life solely on absolutely free software, then you're lucky. I certainly don't mind having the non-free bits in CrunchBang to make it work as great as it does. Different strokes . . . .


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

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#22 2014-06-20 06:22:57

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,826
Website

Re: Is CrunchBang really free software?

Just for the sake of completeness:

...and the already dead ConnachaetOS: http://www.connochaetos.org/
plus those which are here: http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

They are called 'libre', probably because they use the Libre kernel from http://jxself.org/linux-libre/ and we also should add that my favourite distro AntiX also comes with libre kernels.


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