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#1 2013-08-31 20:28:16

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

About a year ago, there was a bit of a spat (to put it mildly) in this forum that, among other things, resulted in bobobex, an administrator here and wife of our distro's developer, posting this.  At the time, it seemed the most reasonable way to handle some of the problems that were popping up here, but I believe it's time for this policy to be revised and relaxed.  In particular, if the policy in that post is adhered to too strictly, there is potential for the moderators ourselves to be trolled into turning this forum into a police state.  (There were a couple times last year when this very nearly happened. 8.( )

I'd like to kick off this discussion by going over a few points in that post.

bobobex wrote:

The PRIMARY aims of the #! forums is for users to share information and help each other with CrunchBang/Debian related issues.  The Off-Topic section is provided as a courtesy for members but we expect our members to exercise some common sense when posting in there.

I consider the Off Topic / General Chat area just as important to the health of the forum as the Help & Support and Feedback areas.  It is there that we form bonds with fellow forum members over common interests that go far beyond CrunchBang, and it is these bonds that turn the forum into a true community.

We do not want our forums to be associated with porn, drugs, criminal activities or any other topic which may inadvertently cause offence to another forum member who reads the thread.

This should go without saying. sad  There were a couple of threads last year regarding the use and merits of certain substances that, while legal/decriminalized in some countries, are prohibited in most; shutting down those threads was part of what led to the unrest last year.

If it is deemed to be unsuitable, then a moderator will close the thread. When a moderator closes a thread, that decision is final. The moderator will explain the reason behind closing a thread

If you feel a moderator has inappropriately closed a thread, please feel encouraged to PM him/her or anyone else on the moderating team to plead your case.  I promise that we will give you a fair hearing and may reconsider our actions.  Especially, if you feel that a particular moderator is abusing his/her position (EDIT: or is otherwise posting in a manner unfitting to his/her position) , PLEASE let another moderator know; nobody here is above the law.

and if any members then decide to open a new thread discussing why a previous thread has been closed, then that member will face a ban.

This part is/was a bit troublesome, and was rather successfully abused to troll the moderating team. sad  As I said above, the PM system is the best place to discuss these matters, but I understand that there are times when a moderating issue needs to be discussed in public; the "just a rant" thread started recently by CBizgreat! is one such example.  Incidentally, should the need for such a thread arise, the Feedback & Suggestions area is probably the best place for it (which is why I'm opening this thread here).

Our moderators give their time freely, with little or no thanks and certainly no financial reward. They perform a difficult task at times, and therefore deserve our support as they carry out their moderating duties. We do not expect them to be vilified by the community for any decisions that they make.

We are all for free speech but at our heart we are a friendly, helpful forum community and I would like to see us stay that way. If these terms are not acceptable to you, please feel free to leave at any time.

All of this.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, I consider being a moderator a calling, which is why my avatar incorporates this piece of artwork based on Past Sins.  (In the MLP:FiM universe, those symbols are actually serious business.)  We actually do receive our share of thanks when things go smoothly here, but to me a healthy, vibrant community with no need for such thanks is the real reward.

...OK, I think I've said more than enough to open this discussion.  I know I already said this in the "just a rant" thread, but please - I want to hear your suggestions on how we, your moderators, can better serve our community.

Last edited by pvsage (2013-08-31 20:59:11)

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#2 2013-08-31 21:10:50

falldown
#! Samurai
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 1,727

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

pvsage and icafiero I believe you do a bang up job here on the forum.
I applaud you two for your dedication and fairness.

Perhaps we need a couple of more mods with the same intentions in mind?

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#3 2013-08-31 21:13:02

rstrcogburn
CrunchRanger
From: NM - The Land of Enchantment
Registered: 2010-06-12
Posts: 1,950
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

@pv

I think Bex said it right.  Forums are for troubleshooting their cause and anything outside of that is courtesy.  The reality is that CB has been a lot of hangin' out besides just fixin CrunchBang distro problems.

Bex did give a point by point list of what's acceptable and what's not.  Porn, drug references, hateful malicious stuff, culturally, politically, and religiously.  So my conclusion is this.  The mods will have to either give the boot to that kind of action or not, with Bex retracting her little COC she laid down for there to be any sense of completion on the matter.

Yall've done a good job so far.  If you let a gray area exist you'll loose your confidence.  Either let it all slide or take two steps back and give the BS a square kick man.  Either way will be solid.  I'm for the conservative and not allowing the bad stuff.  Just stick with a particular course of action.


Pack em in snow!

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#4 2013-08-31 21:16:02

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Great thread here pvsage, nice job. I respect what you are doing to get this community back to what it once was and this topic in combination with CBizgreat's, actually make me think we might pull through!

I don't have any suggestions to add myself, I agree with what was said before: closing threads should only be a last resort and disagreements should be handled in a PM, especially if said disagreement is between a user and a moderator about a certain action. (and in this case, it should be the moderator sending the PM instead of demanding the user to send one).

Optionally, we also could have a sticky topic in this subforum where users can post something if they disagree with something, along the lines of Disagree with a moderator's action? Tell us here. (or is that this topic? ]:D )

I think talking stuff out is what we need, instead of cutting the discussion short (oke, unless we can't act like adults). This is how we handled it "back then".

Last edited by Unia (2013-08-31 21:18:06)


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#5 2013-08-31 21:16:31

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Very well said pvsage.

I do not see anything I disagree with here.

Primary: Crunchbang related issues - hence Debian as well.
Secondary: Linux in general
Thirdly: Off Topic  - a place to "meet and greet" where common courtesy and respect should prevail

Just a thought, but this:

We do not want our forums to be associated with porn, drugs, criminal activities or any other topic which may inadvertently cause offence to another forum member who reads the thread.

Would do very well right here:

Off Topic / General Chat [ New posts ]                                        	3,176 	73,164 	Today 17:52:50
We do not want our forums to be associated with porn, drugs,                                    by rstrcogburn
criminal activities or any other topic which may inadvertently
cause offence to another forum member who reads the thread.

because: Talk about anything and everything. In this section anything goes! says just the opposite!


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#6 2013-08-31 21:19:30

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

^ Great point about the off-topic header! I agree with that one!

I would also agree with falldown about a few new moderators. Right now we only have pvsage and lcafiero? I know corenominal and bobobex, but they aren't around as often anymore. Some new mods might also freshen up atmosphere!


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#7 2013-08-31 21:22:17

falldown
#! Samurai
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 1,727

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

rstrcogburn wrote:

Yall've done a good job so far.  If you let a gray area exist you'll loose your confidence.  Either let it all slide or take two steps back and give the BS a square kick man.  Either way will be solid.  I'm for the conservative and not allowing the bad stuff.  Just stick with a particular course of action.

Well said rstrcogburn!!

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#8 2013-08-31 21:22:24

rstrcogburn
CrunchRanger
From: NM - The Land of Enchantment
Registered: 2010-06-12
Posts: 1,950
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

@ Sector11 That's a great point.  If the title of a Subforum is labelled too vague for what we stand for then how can we possibly expect commerades to act within our boundaries?  Awesome observation man.  Why didn't we notice this before? big_smile


Pack em in snow!

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#9 2013-08-31 21:29:59

falldown
#! Samurai
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 1,727

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Perhaps a friendly copy of our forum etiquette policy should be pm'd to an "offender" with a kind

please edit your post

Or something of that sort.. Then if it continues just ban the user.??.

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#10 2013-08-31 21:32:20

falldown
#! Samurai
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 1,727

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

@ s11 and rstrcogburn I agree !! Excellent point!

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#11 2013-08-31 21:46:41

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

rstrcogburn wrote:

@pv

I think Bex said it right.  Forums are for troubleshooting their cause and anything outside of that is courtesy.  The reality is that CB has been a lot of hangin' out besides just fixin CrunchBang distro problems.

Bex did give a point by point list of what's acceptable and what's not.  Porn, drug references, hateful malicious stuff, culturally, politically, and religiously.  So my conclusion is this.  The mods will have to either give the boot to that kind of action or not, with Bex retracting her little COC she laid down for there to be any sense of completion on the matter.

Yall've done a good job so far.  If you let a gray area exist you'll loose your confidence.  Either let it all slide or take two steps back and give the BS a square kick man.  Either way will be solid.  I'm for the conservative and not allowing the bad stuff.  Just stick with a particular course of action.

Thankfully, there has been no need for acting on anything patently illegal recently.  There have been a few threads where somebody asked for help ripping copyrighted material (for example) and somebody else suggested that such action might be illegal, and in those cases I stand by my decision to give the OP the benefit of a doubt (personal archive, fair use, etc.)  Of course things like "post CP" or "Anybody here use Nuke?" will always be zero-tolerance.

By the way, I do plan to include a section on 4chan memes when I submit some revisions.  ("Post ponies" will, of course, be tolerated. 8o )  I'll also include something along the lines of "If you wouldn't want your 6-year-old child or sibling to read what you are about to post, you probably shouldn't post it"; this is the overriding policy on my own posting. :8

falldown wrote:

pvsage and icafiero I believe you do a bang up job here on the forum.
I applaud you two for your dedication and fairness.

Perhaps we need a couple of more mods with the same intentions in mind?

We could certainly use some more moderators here.  Do you think maybe another thread where candidates can be nominated would be appropriate?

Unia wrote:

Optionally, we also could have a sticky topic in this subforum where users can post something if they disagree with something, along the lines of Disagree with a moderator's action? Tell us here. (or is that this topic? ]:D )

Frankly, I think the description of the Feedback & Suggestions subforum should be amended to "Tell us what you think of CrunchBang Linux and help to improve the distro and community."  I think having a single thread for such discussion would be inappropriate, and this thread itself is mostly for discussing moderating policy in general.  I think that, should the need arise for something specific to be addressed in public, opening a new thread would be the best way to bring it to the moderators' and community's attention.

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#12 2013-08-31 21:54:30

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Wow, so many more posts since I started composing my above reply! :8

@S11:  Excellent suggestion regarding the Off Topic / General Chat description; if a mod had the rights to edit that, I'd change it right now.  (@bobobex & corenominal:  HINT.)

@falldown:  Good suggestion regarding the friendly reminder.

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#13 2013-08-31 22:04:07

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

I keep hearing from the same few people in these threads.  I'd love to hear from more of you, from old-timers and frequent posters to lurkers and newcomers.

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#14 2013-08-31 22:06:33

falldown
#! Samurai
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 1,727

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

pvsage wrote:
falldown wrote:

pvsage and icafiero I believe you do a bang up job here on the forum.
I applaud you two for your dedication and fairness.

Perhaps we need a couple of more mods with the same intentions in mind?

We could certainly use some more moderators here.  Do you think maybe another thread where candidates can be nominated would be appropriate ?.

Hmmm.. I wouldn't see a problem with that.

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#15 2013-08-31 22:41:28

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Yall've done a good job so far.  Either way will be solid.  I'm for the conservative and not allowing the bad stuff.  Just stick with a particular course of action.

Well said rooster... those words shine through

falldown said in part:
pvsage and icafiero - I applaud you two for your dedication and fairness.

rstrcogburn said in part:
Yall've done a good job so far.

Unia said in part
I respect what you are doing to get this community back to what it once was

I am in agreement... and like falldown said, maybe a couple more moderators are needed.  That's a decision for others, but not a bad idea.

@ rstrcogburn - it's not vague at all  ... it's pure contradiction.  On one hand - Not allowed!, on the other Do what you want.

@ falldown - love that "please edit your post"

There should be a standard "quote" in the Admin area for that purpose discussed and edited by the mods.  Once it 's set it becomes a standard starting point ... not a complete post as each situation is different ... but a common starting ground.
Something like.

Your post is in violation of the {link}forum policy{/link} please edit {link}your post{/link}.

continuing with a "small" explanation of why or what.

I'm reading post that have been added ....

Regarding more moderators, I think that should happen behind closed doors in the Admin area between the mods, bobobex & corenominal.  They have a better feel of the heart beat of the place.  Or posting the fact it's happening and to send PM's of your choice to [name].  Just a thought.


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#16 2013-08-31 22:55:40

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

I also think that if we are going to pick new mods, they should be chosen by the current mods in private and not the forum members. People mind end up feeling hurt or not appreciated.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#17 2013-08-31 22:57:36

falldown
#! Samurai
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 1,727

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

You have a good point s11.. I forgot  that the last "I would like to see so and so as a mod" didn't turn out so well.

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#18 2013-08-31 23:04:04

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

pvsage wrote:

I keep hearing from the same few people in these threads.  I'd love to hear from more of you, from old-timers and frequent posters to lurkers and newcomers.

Maybe a few strategically placed posts in some well uses threads... Tomorrow in the Screenshot for September thread for example.

Not all users read Feedback and Suggestions.

A temporary change of a signature.... check below.


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#19 2013-08-31 23:11:33

drlove601
#! Member
From: United States
Registered: 2011-12-01
Posts: 56

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

I don't guess my measly 48 posts gives me much credit, but here are my thoughts...

pvsage wrote:

I consider the Off Topic / General Chat area just as important to the health of the forum as the Help & Support and Feedback areas.  It is there that we form bonds with fellow forum members over common interests that go far beyond CrunchBang, and it is these bonds that turn the forum into a true community.

I most definitely agree with this. I think the feeling of comradery and freely talking about most anything adds a great deal to the vibe of the community.

Not posting topics/comments about illegal activities (even if it is legal in your country) and porn is a given.  As far as other no no topics go such as politics and religion...well personally, I don't mind those at all. I'm not easily offended, but I realize how heated those discussions can become. If they can be kept civil then I wouldn't have a problem with that. If the community feels otherwise then I have no problem with that either lol.  Just saying it doesn't bother me.

I say closing threads is an absolute last resort (except for the cases already mentioned).  People should be able to voice their opinions, both negative and positive.

Now, these are just my general thoughts. I think the moderators here have done an excellent job so keep it up  big_smile  I really appreciate the atmosphere on these forums.

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#20 2013-08-31 23:27:12

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

drlove601 wrote:

I don't guess my measly 48 posts gives me much credit

Horseapples. tongue  Your opinions have no less value here than mine, Rooster's, or Philip's.

I think PMing nominations for new mods is a good idea; I wish I had thought of that.  Oooh, I see I have a PM right now - I wonder if it's a nomination! 8o  (Edited for typo - dadburn cheap keyboard. mad lol )

EDIT:  I understand that closing old threads due to necroposts has been a contentious issue lately.  I promise to include something about that as well; I'm not sure of the exact wording yet, but I promise that my attitude towards necroposts will be more lenient.

Last edited by pvsage (2013-08-31 23:31:07)

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#21 2013-08-31 23:38:21

CaptainIndifferent
#! CrunchBanger
From: The Vale of Si
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 202

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

pvsage wrote:

I keep hearing from the same few people in these threads.  I'd love to hear from more of you, from old-timers and frequent posters to lurkers and newcomers.

I'd certainly have to agree with the previous posters that the current mods do a good job at keeping things in line without being too heavy-handed. The same can be said for most of the previous mods but there have been a few flare-ups and we seem to have lost a few mods that way.

The rules of acceptable behavior make sense and every forum has to have them but they do seem like they were written to deal with naughty children so perhaps they could be re-crafted to be a little less prickly.  ]:D

One thing about the mods on this forum is that it's sometimes hard to figure out who they are. I'm not an expert but most fora that I belong to have a list of mods on each topic or at the foot of the main forum page and the mods usually have it in their titles so that you can easily see that they are mods when they post. Here if you tell someone to PM a mod many newcomers and casual visitors might not even know who they were. As an example, I haven't seen anything from VastOne for a couple of weeks but from the language in a few of the earlier posts it seems that he's no longer a mod here? That's a shame but with the mods in semi-stealth mode tongue half of the time how would anyone know?

We probably do need some more mods here and since we currently have two from the UK and two from the US maybe one or two from Asia or Australia/New Zealand to give round the clock coverage?

Last edited by CaptainIndifferent (2013-08-31 23:47:37)


Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.

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#22 2013-09-01 00:30:08

cobaltwolfe
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2011-07-08
Posts: 138

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

While I've not many postings really I have been here since there was #! lite and getting the weather working in the original conky thread was just getting started. Over the years I've been gone for long periods at a time I've always kept an eye on whats going on. While I missed the threads that were referenced I did give them a read earlier today.

Other than these instances things have not been run badly whatsoever. I've never really seen much happen where things have gotten overly out of control or anything. I can understand the need for more moderators so there could be more coverage time going on. (I've noticed I'm online usually when most people are offline).

There is an infraction system on one of the websites that I'm on (Rrtb) that seems to work pretty well. When someone messes up depending on the severity of the infraction it results in different things. I've gotten one there and it was because of the abbreviation of "wtf" and it was something I didn't even think about when posting but after seeing the notice I've been careful on how I word things. Something similar might work here as well. The other thing about the infractions is that it shows up on your usrCP when you are looking at it as kind of a constant reminder of what you did. It is something that I think would be beneficial here though I'm not entirely sure how they set it up in the first place.

As for the rants/disagreements section that could be something that could be put under this section but as a members only section so it is not visible to people who are just visiting the site. Another side to that (Though I think it was mentioned that it existed) would be to created an Admins/Mods section of the forum so that when it might be necessary for someone to be banned it is discussed by all and only after the mods/admins deciding that it is necessary will the person be banned.

This is not meant to take anyones power away to ban someone just means it thoroughly thought out and decided by the entire group. During the time that the discussion is taking place the persons privileges could be removed so that instead of causing an uproar in the general section it could be made so that they can only post in the above mentioned rants/disagreements section and it could be discussed there.

Another alternative that I can think of from when I was helping run one of my gaming clans forums and servers is that you could probably enable a temp ban function or work the rules so that such and such an infraction will result in a 3 day temp ban from the forums and second infraction will be 1 week and then third is perm ban. It worked pretty well and kept our forums clean along with the servers as people started to listen to what we were saying about what they were posting. If someone is being really unruly disable their posting abilities and then decide if it warrants a perm ban or not.

Well thats about all I've got lol, I personally don't think that overly much needs changing at all as everything I've seen things have been run fairly well.

Edit: Thoughts on being able to tell who is mod and who is not. It is very simple. Pick a color for each member type (Member, Admin, Moderator, ect ect) and that way the peoples name will show as a specific color to denote their status.

Last edited by cobaltwolfe (2013-09-01 00:32:28)


"Alles brennt wenn die Flamme ist heiß genug, die Welt ist nichts aber ein tiegel"
Translation:
"Everything burns if the flame is hot enough, The world is nothing but a crucible."

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#23 2013-09-01 00:39:24

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Great discussion!

I've already mentioned why I think an offtopic area is important in Cbiz's thread,but I can expand on it a bit here also.

Offtopic is the place where we find out more about each other, play silly games at times and just generally have a place to hang out especially when the forum is in a slow time (we're not busy testing or using a new release or helping those who have just come on board from the additional publicity by having a new release).

And since we've gotten to know each other we can meet up in different types of venues easily (identi.ca/pump.io, Fossunet (defunct), Disapora, Deviant Art and more currently BBQ come to mind) 'cause it's nice to see someone familiar, in turn, you meet more people and some of them can come over here also.   

Switching gears: +1 on PM'ing mods. There are very few moderators  here (I'm also including former) that I haven't had a disagreement or difference of opinion with with regards to #! itself or policy issues at some point over the years. We've always been able to work it out through PM. I think some people may be hesitant to PM a mod, but don't be (they are very easy to talk to).

I do agree that threads have been closed a little too quickly, where there may have been opportunity to work things out in the meantime and try to come up with a meeting of the minds and forum balance.  It's not always gonna be sunshine and rainbows and people will have disagreements, but a full cut-off of the discussion doesn't seem to be the best direction either.

And I'm really glad we're talking about this. :-)

Last edited by chillicampari (2013-09-01 05:38:28)

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#24 2013-09-01 06:48:12

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Pvsage ... how can you be a better gnu/nix community moderator ? Imo you can't ... you guys are awesome in how you handle things ( you ... VastOne ... haven't seen much of the others in the time I've been in this forum.)

You guys do more than enough. Still personally not sure why you do it either. I'd rather see you doing something that benefits YOU personally rather than volunteering time to moderate here.

That's just a personal observation. In the time have been here have developed a liking/respect for you Pvsage. So in answer to what "you" can do to be a better gnu/nix distro moderator ... My answer would be "nothing".

You've done more than can be expected. What you can do for yourself .. that's another matter that I'd have no grounds or understanding to speak on.

That'd be between you and you fellow nixer. Gotta say as mentioned nobody could expect more from the #! mods than you guys have delivered.

Shutting up ... Vll! smile

Afterthought comedic babble. Think you guys should make me a #! mod, though that'd be in the exact opposite of the intention of the thread.

Roving across da board bans ... often random, depending upon mood bans. Whamo ... don't even know you and yet you are banned ! big_smile

Still would like to see you give more time to yourself Pvsage than this thing.

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2013-09-01 07:15:03)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#25 2013-09-01 07:45:19

fatmac
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-11-14
Posts: 1,948

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Not a lot to say on this matter, you the mods do a good job in your own free time, for the benefit of us the users, we appreciate that.

You try to keep postings on topic, & you try to keep bad stuff out of the forum. Nobody can please everyone all the time, but you're about 99.9%, so I don't think you need worry.

More mods; yes possibly, if so, I think the present mods should discuss between themselves who to invite.


Linux since 1999
Currently:  AntiX, & Crunchbang.
A good general beginners book for Linux :- http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz
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