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#1 2013-06-07 07:26:48

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Has the Debian forum (forums.debian.net) always been so hostile and arrogant? Do they actively seek to keep people away from Debian? If so, then why?
I cannot, for the life of me, understand the attitude of some of the posters on there - shocking, real keyboard warriors.
I thought Stalinism was gone.

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#2 2013-06-07 07:54:50

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

If you want help on the Debian forums for Debian related questions, you have to word them correctly:

"Can you please help me get Debian to _____" <---Wrong Way
"Debian Sucks!  It can't even ______.  In Windows you just _________ and it works." <------Correct Way.

Just kidding about that.  People with exceptional skills in certain areas often forget that they weren't born knowing the things that they currently know.  The internet isn't known for being particularly helpful at fixing bad manners.  Strive on with diligence.

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#3 2013-06-07 07:55:29

Iranon
#! Junkie
Registered: 2012-03-10
Posts: 259

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

It's always been abrasive, which is fairly common in open source community projects.


LEGO won't be ready for the average user until it comes pre-assembled, in a single  unified look, and glued together so it doesn't come apart.

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#4 2013-06-07 08:12:43

joek
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-09-06
Posts: 497

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

excollier wrote:

I thought Stalinism was gone.

Have the Debian forums established Gulags and collectivised farms now?!

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#5 2013-06-07 08:16:50

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Yeah, but downright dismissive? And rude? There is no need for it, it doen't help the cause of Debian or linux in general
I used to be a coalminer for 14 years, so I am pretty thick skinned, very hard to upset or offend. But some people on there are just arrogant to the point of wondering "are they human...?"
I'll delete my Debian partition, install something else before I wiould seek help there again, it's so offensive.
As for the Stalinism quip, the offenders on there see eveyone as equal, but they see themselve's as more equal than the hapless newbie - to paraphrase George Orwell.
Join us but don't question us - seek answers elsewhere, before you annoy us, how dare you.

Last edited by excollier (2013-06-07 08:21:35)

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#6 2013-06-07 08:20:43

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

joek wrote:

Have the Debian forums established Gulags and collectivised farms now?!

Well, according to the Debian Dev Mailing List, they're only officially going to support gulags for now.  You can install them with:

sudo apt-get install gulags

Then you have to manually migrate the files you want into them.

Seriously, though.  Don't judge the whole farm by a few bad apples.

*note, this post is a work of fiction that's using tongue in cheek humor regarding melodrama in the previous forum posts.  Don't send in a bug report that your attempt to install gulags in Debian didn't work.  Regards, me.

Last edited by DebianJoe (2013-06-07 08:22:01)

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#7 2013-06-07 08:24:21

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Is there a

sudo apt-get install common-courtesy

Last edited by excollier (2013-06-07 08:25:47)

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#8 2013-06-07 08:26:58

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

excollier wrote:

I thought Stallmanism was gone.

Fixed it for ya. 8o

I've never ventured into the Debian forums other than via a web scraper search, but from what I've heard, your experience is fairly typical. sad  I know they have a rather derisive term for Canonical's distro; I can only imagine what they'd come up with for corenominal's. roll

EDIT:  As for the last post above, common-courtesy is installed by default here. cool

Last edited by pvsage (2013-06-07 08:28:25)

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#9 2013-06-07 08:30:00

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

It certainly is. And doesn't it make a huge difference?

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#10 2013-06-07 08:30:15

fatmac
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-11-14
Posts: 1,948

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Sorry, I've not been helping on there for a long time now.  big_smile  ]:D
(I just hang out in friendly forums.)  big_smile  ]:D


Linux since 1999
Currently:  AntiX, & Crunchbang.
A good general beginners book for Linux :- http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz
A good Debian read :- http://debian-handbook.info/get/now/

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#11 2013-06-07 08:31:01

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

pvsage wrote:
excollier wrote:

I thought Stallmanism was gone.

EDIT:  As for the last post above, common-courtesy is installed by default here. cool

^^The reason that I like it here.  Being polite should be standard issue.

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#12 2013-06-07 08:33:57

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

#! Debian without the high horse!
I'm off to listen to the Isle of Man TT commentary now.

Last edited by excollier (2013-06-07 08:36:38)

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#13 2013-06-07 10:02:46

ItsAllGoneWierd
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2013-05-06
Posts: 32

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

It's not just Debian forums that tolerate lots of nasty behaviour.

Till now, #! forums are the best I have seen so far!
I've heard that the Arch Linux forum is a nice place to, but I don't know.. 8o

Be excellent to eachother!
Let's keep it that way!

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#14 2013-06-07 10:42:11

joek
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-09-06
Posts: 497

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Yep, the internet is full of arseholes. Fortunately, we seem to maintain a relatively good community here...

Part of the problem is that of scale. There are so many idiots on the internet that somewhere as big and well-known as the Debian fora has its fair share.

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#15 2013-06-07 10:51:54

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Trouble is with Debian forum, the ones with the bad attitude are sometimes also ones with elevated privileges. Not naming names though.

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#16 2013-06-07 11:25:39

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

excollier wrote:

Not naming names though.

Good, this thread is borderline acceptable as it is (dissing other forums?)

That said, I agree completely with what everyone has said, although there are a few exceptional people there, as well as some very knowledgeable freaking idiot arseholes. In short, a good place to check for solutions to problems, just don't comment... at all cost, unless you want to feel a sense of unrest.

I can't speak for the Arch forums, but I can say that in my brief time on the OpenSuse forums, 2 years ago at least, I received excellent help and attitudes for asking the most basic questions (Can't boot the Live CD? Try boot parameter 'nomodeset').


bunsenlabs     8)     forum mod squad

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#17 2013-06-07 11:28:07

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Oh yeah, nobody is going to beat Dr. Xaos for troubleshooting.


bunsenlabs     8)     forum mod squad

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#18 2013-06-07 11:33:43

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

joek wrote:

Yep, the internet is full of arseholes. Fortunately, we seem to maintain a relatively good community here...

Part of the problem is that of scale. There are so many idiots on the internet that somewhere as big and well-known as the Debian fora has its fair share.

the problem with debian forums is that being a zealot is supported and encouraged. I never had problems with the rtfm culture and there is a lot of good advice, but what drove me away is I've seen people get insulted just because they weren't debian-religious enough. it's ridiculous to the point it feels like a cult, not that different from mac websites.

Last edited by zalew (2013-06-07 11:38:44)

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#19 2013-06-07 12:01:49

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

ItsAllGoneWierd wrote:

Let's keep it that way!

The Arch mods have gotten their zealots into shape in the last year or so. It used to be almost as bad as Debian, but nothing really beats the asshattery on the Debian forums. It's the cesspool of the entire web.

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#20 2013-06-07 12:55:42

kiiroitori
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tokyo, Japan
Registered: 2010-12-07
Posts: 229

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Is this a promotion thread for the debian forums disguised as a bashing thread? ...because you guys have made want to check those forums out!


I love #! more than my own kids. I told them and they sympathized.

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#21 2013-06-07 13:16:19

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

Please check it out. You will see for yourself after a while. You'll get out again fairly sharpish.

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#22 2013-06-07 13:20:51

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

el_koraco wrote:

The Arch mods have gotten their zealots into shape in the last year or so.

I've found the Arch forums to have gotten really great over the past year and a half (give or take.)  The only trouble I've ever had there is NOT letting a basic topic devolve into an in-depth discussion on screen-resolutions and pixels.  Then again, I'm not particularly good at staying on topic anyhow.  ewaller has only yelled at me once about that. big_smile

(/ontopic)  Perhaps rather than creating dissension through comparing a place where people post text to a fascist regime, we should simply learn from the ways of others in order to improve upon ourselves.

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#23 2013-06-07 14:14:47

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,826
Website

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

A friendly forums (that we are) does not bash or criticize other distros/communities (arrogant, hostile, Stalinist, cesspool, ..., this vocabulary is - depending on your heritage - quite offensive) IMO, it doesn't do any good. Of course it is 'free speech' etc. to share impressions, but what is the aim of it? Where should it end, and what solutions are expected? cool


Sweaty lads picking up the soap | I love the new "Ignore user" button

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#24 2013-06-07 14:18:22

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: V-Ger
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,165
Website

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

hhh wrote:

Good, this thread is borderline acceptable as it is (dissing other forums?)

hhh wrote:

Oh yeah, nobody is going to beat Dr. Xaos for troubleshooting.


Exactly...

How arrogant is it for this community to talk about another? 

We have it good here for a reason, we earned it


VSIDO | Words That Build Or Destroy

I dev VSIDO

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#25 2013-06-07 14:22:33

cchhrriiss121212
#! Junkie
Registered: 2010-03-26
Posts: 357

Re: Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

I think there is more to this behaviour than just bad manners.

Part of what we are talking about here is the anti-popularity attitude some people in the Linux world have. Many people are happy with Linux being a 1% market share on the desktop and I think the hostility in some quarters is an attempt to defend that.

It seemed odd to me at first but I can kind of see why it happens. They might think a larger user base will result in a dumbed down OS like we (arguably) are seeing with Ubuntu and Win8.

#! has managed to be non populist while also having a friendly community, hopefully it will stay this way.

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