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#1 2013-04-15 22:16:24

mrbean111
Member
From: Ohio
Registered: 2012-12-19
Posts: 10

How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Hi, total beginner question(s)...

I'm a little confused about realistic ways to install up to date software and yet keep my system stable.

1) How do I tell definitively what is my base? I assume I have Statler.
I found this thread but its hard to follow, is there an easy way to know your base distro?

https://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=25567

2.6.32-5-amd64


2) I really want to update Banshee media player. Apt-get says I have the newest release, version 1.6 from 2010. I am learning that it says "newest" based on my package sources. However the newest is really 2.6, released 6 months ago... available on Unstable / Lenny.

http://banshee.fm/download/

I see many warnings about mixing package sources, so what is the "best" approach? I could deal with a buggy program but I don't want to make the whole system buggy.

I know this question isn't about #! specifically, but moreso, how I can get a current piece of software installed onto it "safely". Looking for practical advice here.

Many thanks for your help and patience!


-MrBean111

Last edited by mrbean111 (2013-04-16 00:32:38)


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#2 2013-04-15 22:42:51

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,478
Website

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

One of the main ways people have up-to-date software is by going unstable, this is a bit of a scary name.
but it doesn't have to be - there are many distros based on sid (unstable)
VSID0, LinuxBBQ, Siduction, and a bunch of others.
Or  there are threads here that will make your system use newer repos. (allowing you to keep your system as it is)
your warnings are best heeded, it's called dependency hell, one thing depends on another which isn't there, everything falls apart.

a SID based distro is built to withstand these things - plus if you get a warning - wait a few days and it gets fixed (generally)

hope this helps

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#3 2013-04-15 22:46:56

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,478
Website

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

oh-  for your number one question you must be on stable, is that uname -a?
wow 2.6 kernel that -is- stable.
and whats up with the link i get an error?
anyway

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#4 2013-04-16 00:45:15

mrbean111
Member
From: Ohio
Registered: 2012-12-19
Posts: 10

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Hi, thanks for the reply. SID based distro is an interesting concept. Is it catching on?

I fixed the link...accidentally tagged as a "forum" instead of a "topic"

Is there a way to restrict my source repository list so I only get the program I want (e.g. just get up to date Banshee 2.6 and its direct dependencies) without accidentally updating all kinds of other stuff?

Another beginner question about builds... if Waldorf is stable and I want to upgrade, generally I must: backup, install on top, and then re-customize things? So if I had lots of configuration for things like printer, graphics, scanner, do those settings normally get lost in an upgrade process?

Thanks a lot for your experience in these matters.


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#5 2013-04-16 00:59:58

Neil
#! CrunchBanger
From: Paragould AR USA
Registered: 2010-05-01
Posts: 219

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Read up on how to install individual apps from Debian experimental repo here:  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianExperimental

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#6 2013-04-16 01:08:15

mrbean111
Member
From: Ohio
Registered: 2012-12-19
Posts: 10

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Maybe Backports are what I'm looking for...

http://wiki.debian.org/Backports

Would "deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free" be a good option?

Is Debian Squeeze compatible with Statler or Waldorf, or is that the wrong way of thinking about it?


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#7 2013-04-16 01:09:32

mrbean111
Member
From: Ohio
Registered: 2012-12-19
Posts: 10

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Neil wrote:

Read up on how to install individual apps from Debian experimental repo here:  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianExperimental

Ok, I'll read up on that, thanks Neil.


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#8 2013-04-16 01:18:06

nadir
#! Member
Registered: 2010-10-20
Posts: 83

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Edit: Ups, it took me too long to write the post. I missed the changes in the thread.
The following might not make sense anymore.

I see many warnings about mixing package sources, so what is the "best" approach? I could deal with a buggy program but I don't want to make the whole system buggy.

Imho:
The warnings are correct as far mixing stable with testing or unstable. Don't do it.
You can mix testing and unstable (by simply editing /etc/apt/preferences and set testing to be the Default. Then only the packages you specify will be installed from sid - plus it's dependencies.
You can mix testing with experimental or sid with experimental or testing and sid with experimental without editing /etc/apt/preferences, as experimental has a low priority (it will only be installed from experimental if you explicitly say so, say with "apt-get install -t experimental pkg-name").

Also imho:
As a beginner you don't want to run a Sid based distribution. It works very well most of the time, but if things go south then you need a little bit of experience to solve the problems. You can simply try it, sure. I would consider that after i got used to how things work (perhaps try Virtualbox for such). 
Very soon the Debian freeze is over, and then in Sid land "hell will break loose" (for very short, but now is really a bad time to try Sid for the first time).

Is there a way to restrict my source repository list so I only get the program I want (e.g. just get up to date Banshee 2.6 and its direct dependencies) without accidentally updating all kinds of other stuff?

That is called "pinning".
Again: while some people seem to do it, i for one would never mix stable with testing or sid. But the ones who do do it by pinning:
http://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences?a … ct=Pinning
(In 5 years i never have done any pinning, btw).

So if I had lots of configuration for things like printer, graphics, scanner, ...

configurations of the user are in hidden files in his home directory. /home/username and anything with starts with a dot (which is usually hidden). Say /home/username/.bashrc or /home/username/.vimrc ... and so on.
system wide configuration files are usually in /etc
It is a good idea to backup both (always back them up, not only in case of an upgrade).
You can copy system wide configs back, and if you are lucky there aren't much changes and your configurations will still work on a newer system (but you might well be unlucky). I think. I run Debian, not crunchbang, and there i simply upgrade from one release to the next, if /etc configs are changed i am asked if i want to keep my version or use the new one. But i got a backup of /etc and often just copy those files or folders from one box to another. Anyway: take care. There might be differences between crunchbang and debian i am not aware of. I hope it helped a bit anyway. If in doubt wait for other answers.

Last edited by nadir (2013-04-16 01:19:24)

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#9 2013-04-16 17:45:36

vic
#! by Default
From: /grill
Registered: 2009-02-13
Posts: 3,361

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

mrbean111 wrote:

Is Debian Squeeze compatible with Statler or Waldorf, or is that the wrong way of thinking about it?

Squeeze is compatible with Statler. Waldorf is compatible with Wheezy, in which Banshee is at 2.4.


Time to move on!#

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#10 2013-04-17 04:12:05

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Hi mrbean111,  you've hit on one of the tricky areas in Debian. As-is it's extremely stable and reliable, but some of the packages tend to be a bit old, and the options for getting newer versions are complicated and/or dangerous.

First, how much do you need the newer version of Banshee? What version would provide the features you want, or fix the bugs that are bothering you?

If 2.4 would be good enough you're in luck, because all you have to do is upgrade your system from Statler to Waldorf, which is already a pretty stable system.

If you really need 2.6 then you have to get it from "experimental". (The Debian search facility will tell you what versions are available where.)

Options:

pinning: already mentioned. (A #! thread here.) Pro: your app will get updated automatically. Con: other stuff might get pulled in over time that you weren't originally planning on.

get the deb: (What I usually do in these cases.) Just go to the download page of the package (eg for banshee 2.6 here), download the .deb file and open it with gdebi. If you're on Statler like me, gdebi will tell you you need 'libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.32.3)'. That package can be got from Wheezy, but needs 'libpcre3 (>= 8.10)' again available in Wheezy, but this in turn needs 'multiarch-support' which cannot be installed in Squeeze afaik... So I'd have given up at this point. sad (It would have been easier on Waldorf.) When the dependecies are easily installed, however, this is the simplest way to get a specific package. Con: it won't get any automatic upgrades, but sometimes that's what you want.

compile: The "proper" way to do it is to compile the package from source for your system. This is complicated and still brings dependency issues.

So if 2.4 is enough, just switch to #! Waldorf. If you must have 2.6, you'd probably better still switch to Waldorf and then try one of the options above.

Or else just live with 1.6.1 ...

Good luck! smile


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#11 2013-04-17 11:32:44

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

mrbean111 wrote:

Maybe Backports are what I'm looking for...

http://wiki.debian.org/Backports

Would "deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free" be a good option?

Is Debian Squeeze compatible with Statler or Waldorf, or is that the wrong way of thinking about it?

If you are concerned about the stable, testing or unstable stamp, then just wait a few weeks. Waldorf goes stable as soon as Debian lift their freeze, and that has to happen in the very near future...


- apt-mark hold account

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#12 2013-04-17 12:15:17

uname
#! Junkie
Registered: 2013-03-15
Posts: 484

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

Because of only a few rc-bugs in wheezy you can upgrade now to wheezy/waldorf and use Banshee 2.4.1-3 ( http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/banshee ).

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#13 2013-04-17 12:50:22

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

ew wrote:

If you are concerned about the stable, testing or unstable stamp, then just wait a few weeks. Waldorf goes stable as soon as Debian lift their freeze, and that has to happen in the very near future...

That's very optimistic of you, ew. big_smile  "Very near future" in Debian world could potentially be 2014. tongue

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#14 2013-04-17 16:17:54

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

DebianJoe wrote:
ew wrote:

If you are concerned about the stable, testing or unstable stamp, then just wait a few weeks. Waldorf goes stable as soon as Debian lift their freeze, and that has to happen in the very near future...

That's very optimistic of you, ew. big_smile  "Very near future" in Debian world could potentially be 2014. tongue

You could be right. I`ve expected Debian to lift their freeze for quite a while now. I wonder what`s keeping them from doing just that. Even Sid is stable enough for most people..., and Wheezy is getting old before it gets the stable-stamp.


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#15 2013-04-19 19:30:21

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

I dual-boot Waldorf and Sid.  That way, if something breaks in Sid, I'll still have a stable environment to use.


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#16 2013-04-19 22:47:51

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How to update software correctly, and keep stable build

KrunchTime wrote:

I dual-boot Waldorf and Sid.  That way, if something breaks in Sid, I'll still have a stable environment to use.

I trippel-boot this pc. Ubuntu 12.10, Linuxbbq trollinger(sid) and Waldorf(sidyfied), so I guess Ubuntu is my stable safety pin, but I haven`t had to use it yet...

Last edited by ew (2013-04-19 22:49:15)


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