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#1 2015-03-27 06:55:14

smacz
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 250

Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

I skimmed the Ideas for Janice thread recently looking for opinions in regards to a default music player. Some felt including one by default would be bloat on an otherwise lightweight distro, some thought it would be necessary for an exemplary user experience. None could decide on the philosophically correct one for CrunchBang (now BunsenLabs), or if the choice of music player was even too personal to be forced on someone by default. AFAIK there was no general resolution as to if it should be included in the bl-welcome menu vs included by default vs left to the user to install. So, should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

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#2 2015-03-27 07:46:29

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

I vote for mpd with one of the many mpd-clients as the controller (I like ncmpc).

It's the lightest and the best-sounding of all the player options.

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#3 2015-03-27 09:21:46

orionthehunter
#! Constellation
From: Japan
Registered: 2011-04-09
Posts: 967
Website

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

What we really want is a sane default... I think the majority of the available players suffice. Heck even VLC works, even if it isn't designed for it.

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#4 2015-03-27 12:09:33

spacex
ew
From: Norway
Registered: 2015-01-17
Posts: 385
Website

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

If any, choose lxmusic. Does it's job, and light on dependencies.


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#5 2015-03-27 13:12:57

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

» Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

To answer the subject matter:  no

For the same reason there is no email client by default - that's a users choice.

However, having said that, I see can see where a few choices might be a good idea in the bl-welcome script.

The preceding is just my opinion - I have no music player installed - no speakers just headphones.


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#6 2015-03-27 13:40:20

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I vote for mpd with one of the many mpd-clients as the controller (I like ncmpc).

It's the lightest and the best-sounding of all the player options.

I've heard of that .. checked out the link ... OHMY! look at those Depends ... so I did a sim-get:

 27 Mar 15 | 10:35:44 ~
    $ sget mpd
alias sget = sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends --simulate
[sudo] password for sector11: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  libao-common libao4
Suggested packages:
  icecast2 mpd-client pulseaudio
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libao-common libao4 mpd
0 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Inst libao-common (1.1.0-2 Debian:7.8/stable [amd64])
Inst libao4 (1.1.0-2 Debian:7.8/stable [amd64])
Inst mpd (0.16.7-2+b1 Debian:7.8/stable [amd64])
Conf libao-common (1.1.0-2 Debian:7.8/stable [amd64])
Conf libao4 (1.1.0-2 Debian:7.8/stable [amd64])
Conf mpd (0.16.7-2+b1 Debian:7.8/stable [amd64])
 
 27 Mar 15 | 10:35:59 ~
    $ 

I have all the stuff... big_smile
Might just try it out ... with your recommended ncmpc.
Right after I get a few songs here.  I had some years ago to test a music player long gone.


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#7 2015-03-27 13:50:17

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

If I'm not mistaken, we're planning on including VLC on the Live Builds; was good enough for CrunchBang and has a much bigger fanbase here than the various mplayer variants.  I understand MPV is gaining ground here lately though, so to me, it's between those two.  IMHO, a general-purpose audio/video player that supports the most common codecs makes sense in a Live ISO.

If a dedicated music player is to be included in the Live Builds, I believe lxmusic is a sane choice.  I'm partial to moc myself, but I've been using that for five years now; might be time to consider something new.

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#8 2015-03-27 14:01:59

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
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Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

VLC plays music. The suggestion is not to drop VLC but to have a music player as well? Is that needed by default?


John
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#9 2015-03-27 14:15:16

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

^ I don't think it would be needed in a live build, but it might be something to consider as a recommends, or possibly as part of the "bloat" meta.  Some of us like to have a dedicated music player with a separate playlist, for example; others like something with more playlist flexibility than VLC can provide, like mpd + ncmpc or gmusicbrowser.

The more I think about this, the more I see the choice of a dedicated music player is rather more personal than it would appear at first blush.  (EDIT:  I recall that when we had a couple Conky Music script threads going here, one of them included support for 18 music players; probably wouldn't be so many different ones if there weren't at least a few people who wanted specific features that weren't provided by other players.)  This should be left to the needs and/or whims of the individual user. O:)

Last edited by pvsage (2015-03-27 14:18:48)

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#10 2015-03-28 23:13:49

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2012-05-22
Posts: 2,205

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

to answer op's original question: no. one multi-purpose media player is enough.

...

every useful media player has loads of dependencies because of all the codecs, so a first-time install is large.


the problem with vlc, it has its own dependencies. it is (albeit a great piece of software) not native to linux, and when installing it you are - at least partly - installing redundant libraries.

if mpv is far enough along the way on debian, i would use that instead.
again, mpv is a multi-purpose media player just like vlc, so one to bind them all.


for music only:
wasn't moc(p) part of a default crunchbang install at some point?

Last edited by ohnonot (2015-03-28 23:16:04)

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#11 2015-03-29 06:31:36

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

^ MOC was part of CrunchBang 9.4; can't remember whether it was installed in both versions or just in the "Lite" version.

I tried LXMusic.  Meh; if I were to go with a dedicated music player, I'd probably either stick with a relatively lightweight console player like MOC or go "whole hog" and install something like GMusicBrowser.  To each their own.

Last edited by pvsage (2015-03-29 06:32:28)

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#12 2015-03-29 08:54:30

smacz
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 250

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

Freewill seems to be the determining factor in not including a default music player in Hydrogen. If it is to be "To each their own", might this then be a primo topic to include in the (hopefully forthcoming) wiki? For instance, similar to the Claws mail and Mutt CrunchBang wiki pages, as (at least Waldorf) had not come with a mail client installed.

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#13 2015-03-29 09:46:04

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

Yes I was surprised at first not to get an email app - but I would probably have uninstalled it anyway and put in Icedove...

It's a tricky topic, default apps, and raises the question of how complete a system BL (or, previously, #!) should be, and for that matter what constitutes completeness.

Anyway, you can't do anything without some kind of terminal, text editor, image viewer and web browser, but after there it gets more difficult. CrunchBang was a "full-featured" setup in its way, but Philip did say, at one point in the "ideas for Janice" thread, that he was thinking about making a well-configured basic system and letting people install their own choice of media player, pdf viewer...

That could be an option for BunsenLabs, although there's also something to be said for a setup that already does most of the usual things that people use computers for, even if they might want to change some of the apps later.


John
--------------------
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#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#14 2015-03-29 09:49:54

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

It may depend on how much you want someone to be able to do in a Live Session. If that isn't an issue then IMO it makes sense to have a relatively small default install and a comprehensive post-install script and pipemenus.


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#15 2015-03-29 10:05:28

smacz
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 250

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

@johnraff You can't make everyone happy. The way I've been thinking about it is that there are two (probably more than these) three options:

1a. BunsenLabs = N00b desktop fully configured and setup with all default apps imaginable for the straight-from-windoze-user
1b. Co-release BunsenLabs-Lite = Minimal install with all necessary system utilities.

2. A minimal install with basic system utilities with an inclination towards keeping it down to a CD-sized .iso, and a much-expanded 'bunsen-welcome' script for all of the goodies.

3. Of course, there is also the middle-of-the-road where compromise is the name of the game and there are no winners between the size, utilization and configuration considerations. Either way:

I need default functionality.
I need a slim sleek system.
I need a distributable distro.
I need BunsenLabs.

EDIT: I guess my point being that while all options can work out just fine, without knowing which direction to head, it's hard to make any headway.

Last edited by smacz (2015-03-29 18:53:06)

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#16 2015-03-30 03:43:22

Ututo
#! CrunchBanger
From: Lerma Valley
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 133

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

For me VLC does the job. Of couse, I'd like to see DeadBeef in my next BL install. But, as @smacz said:

smacz wrote:

You can't make everyone happy.

I believe that BL should keep CrunchBang essence and let users make their personal choices about the software they want to run on BL.
That said,  I'd like to see DeadBeef in my next BL install big_smile


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#17 2015-03-30 05:39:45

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

Perhaps it's something like smacz's option (3).

...and maybe at least for the first release, keeping fairly close to CrunchBang.


John
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#18 2015-03-30 07:14:03

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

johnraff wrote:

Perhaps it's something like smacz's option (3).

...and maybe at least for the first release, keeping fairly close to CrunchBang.

Maybe a multimedia pipemenu along the lines of the browsers pipemenu, with a default player and options for alternate installs?

Deadbeef for me as well, FWIW wink


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#19 2015-03-30 07:20:21

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2012-05-22
Posts: 2,205

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

i never understood why installation disks have to be full of software when:
- linux depends on internet connection even more than (...some commercial os...)
- first thing after installation i have to update my system anyway
- all those apps are at my fingertips anyway
(and this is the me from 2011 talking, when i first installed xubuntu)

however, there is the point of integration into the existing system.
i have a feeling that there was a little more to it in #! than meets the eye (there's this one utility in the menu, Edit Default Applications)
- e.g. mime types: clicking on a plain text file does indeed open geany.
recently i also found that installing libreoffice requires quite a bit of fine-tuning; don't know how good the welcome script was with that. integration with (a dark) gtk default theme...

edit: actually i'm going OT here, since op only asked about music player. is there a discussion about default apps in general?

Last edited by ohnonot (2015-03-30 07:24:14)

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#20 2015-03-30 07:44:05

smacz
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 250

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

@damo had elsewhere (I believe) made a comment along the lines of "It all depends what functionality you want the LiveCD to have."

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#21 2015-03-30 07:46:17

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

damo wrote:

Maybe a multimedia pipemenu along the lines of the browsers pipemenu, with a default player and options for alternate installs?

Maybe, why not?


John
--------------------
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#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#22 2015-03-30 16:32:37

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

Re: DeadBeef... although it's my audio player of choice, with Audacious being my second pic, DeadBeef is not in the Debian repos. Yes, there are handy deb packages for 32 and 64 bit systems, but those install DeadBeef to /opt, meaning that a symlink to the DeadBeef bin is needed from either /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin (or another $PATH location) for it to be accessible from a Run dialog, doesn't it? A forum HowTo would be the way to go for DeadBeef, I would think.


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#23 2015-03-30 19:27:15

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

Deadbeef is in deb-multimedia repos though


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#24 2015-03-31 04:16:30

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

I think a music player is a good idea in the live build and as orionthehunter stated, it should be a sane default; i.e. not a terminal app, unless it can be setup so that a newbie can easily use it without having to do things on the command line.

Whew!  Was that sentence long enough?  CBizgreat! must be rubbing off on me!  ]:D

Last edited by KrunchTime (2015-03-31 04:19:06)


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#25 2015-03-31 14:43:51

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Should there be a music player in Hydrogen?

^ You're no CBiz, but you're no Proust either. tongue

One thing I like about MOC is it is as easy (for me anyway) to use out-of-the-box as Nano.  There are other standalone terminal music players that some people like here (CMus for example), but they feel less intuitive to those of us who don't use vi or Emacs.

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