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#1 2015-02-07 18:04:43

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,083
Website

in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

ugh.  i'm disgusted i'm making this thread... alas, i think it's kinda gotta be made.

if the community were to rally around one continuation of #!, what would you want it to have?

systemd?
anything but systemdoze?


devuan based #! seem like a sane move to you?



(i am so sorry)
*expects ruckus*

p.s.  and if both, which is the fork, and which is the true way?

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#2 2015-02-07 18:13:05

boisei0
#! CrunchBanger
From: Gaanderen, Netherlands
Registered: 2013-07-16
Posts: 193

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

From the Devuan mailing list, posted about an hour ago:

Jaromil (Devaun core dev) wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2015, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=38916
>
> While I knew of its existence, I never tried Crunchbag, so I cannot
> comment on its features or user experience. 

It is a big shame. Crunchbang is a gread distro, I've used it and know
many people that use it, either on a daily basis or on specific tasks.

It has a pleasant community and a good set of documentation.

If anyone likes to put a word out about Devuan in there, I think we
should do our best to welcome their community here, which is
historically leaning towards minimalism.

In-between update: I'm making remarkable progress on a SDK for Devuan
package development. We are getting close to the alpha. More news soon.

ciao


YAWS (cli weather script with conkyForecast syntax) | Bitbucket | Github | Blog
Member of the Unofficial #! Emergency Tinfoil Hat Distribution Center
Emergency Tinfoil Hat Conky Alert System development team

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#3 2015-02-07 18:13:21

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Digit wrote:

...
if the community were to rally around one continuation of #!, what would you want it to have?

systemd?
anything but systemdoze?

Whatever is the default Debian. But I see no problem with systemd for home users, after all that is what Crunchbang is mainly used for, afaics. Personally I like systemd, and it seems to be a philosophical/"religious" objection by those who are anti.

devuan based #! seem like a sane move to you?

No.


BunsenLabs Group on deviantArt
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Forum Moderator smile

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#4 2015-02-07 18:16:27

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Another vote for no.

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#5 2015-02-07 18:23:47

tknomanzr
#! Die Hard
From: Heavener, OK
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 777

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Having used systemd for awhile now, I feel like it is not the great evil so many have painted it out to be. In fact, it just gets out of the way and does it's job. This is what all great software does and is largely what #! has accomplished. To be fair, we can expect more big sweeping changes coming to Linux in the future. I suspect Wayland will replace X eventually and we haven't even mention glNext on these forums yet, nor had I had the time to really dig into it. Change is hard, as evinced by all the posts floating around these forums with Phillip's announcement of #! end of life.

I have yet to have systemd init blow up, either on debian or arch based distro. And I just find it's way of doing stuff more accessible and understandable than old SysV styled init. Now if they eventually end up with a monolithic build that eliminates our freedom of choice, then I will have to change my mind but it hasn't happened yet.

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#6 2015-02-07 19:36:45

cloverskull
#! Junkie
Registered: 2013-10-26
Posts: 377

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

+1 @tknomanzr

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#7 2015-02-07 19:41:16

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Digit wrote:

devuan based #! seem like a sane move to you?

Hahahahahahahahaha. No. In fact, I won't be part of a non-systemd based post-#! project. Blessing or a curse? You decide. big_smile


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

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#8 2015-02-07 22:03:53

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

From everything I've read about devuan, both here and at their own website, I know it's something I want to avoid as much as possible.  I would rather use Windows. O:)

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#9 2015-02-08 01:16:49

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Another vote for whatever the Debian default is. That means systemd atm.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#10 2015-02-08 01:25:55

th3pun15h3r
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 571

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Keep it on debian, or maybe move it to a minimal install of a ubuntu lts (14.04 currently) since that should give it a 5 year support window.

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#11 2015-02-08 02:23:44

spacex
ew
From: Norway
Registered: 2015-01-17
Posts: 385
Website

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

It seems that the majority say a big NO, and to my big surprise I find myself agreing with the majority. It does not happen very often, so there must be something to it. Stay with whatever Debian does, and let the biggest systemd-haters do whatever they want. It will be fully possible to run non-systemd Debian for quite a while, and those that hate systemd the most, are all skilled people. It's better that they do the tweaking to stay clear of systemd. Straying away from debian defaults has to be left to those that are able to it themselves.


Regards,
spacex/ew
http://tweaklinux.org

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#12 2015-02-08 02:27:07

spacex
ew
From: Norway
Registered: 2015-01-17
Posts: 385
Website

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

th3pun15h3r wrote:

Keep it on debian, or maybe move it to a minimal install of a ubuntu lts (14.04 currently) since that should give it a 5 year support window.

Well. I did just that. Created Crunchbang on a ubuntu base. It was fine. But...., it's still Ubuntu..., and I'm not especially happy with the direction of Ubuntu these days. So I would prefer to stay on Debian smile


Regards,
spacex/ew
http://tweaklinux.org

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#13 2015-02-08 02:32:55

tknomanzr
#! Die Hard
From: Heavener, OK
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 777

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Agreed. Debian is where it's at for me. Heck I came here from Ubuntu. At this point, I'd be happy with Debian netinstall or Arch built the way I want it, if that's the choice that was forced on me. At this point I feel quite comfortable building up an openbox implementation from console. It's more the hosts of users who come here looking to migrate from windows or Ubuntu or whatever that don't yet have the skill set to go all the way down to bare bones and set a system up that I think about. Crunchbang occupied a unique niche between power linux user and newcomer in the Linux world.

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#14 2015-02-08 03:40:16

th3pun15h3r
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 571

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

Maybe look at debian testing or if possible to borrow from other repos that do semi rolling release for more stable current software (solydx or debian mint).  For me, work around for native spotify didn't work and then when Native netflix on chrome stable only for testing or unstable.  Also because ubuntu is doing unity and stuff you wouldn't be using it if you do a minimal install anyway.  I will say though a lot more bug reports than debian so.

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#15 2015-02-08 05:16:06

paxmark1
#! Junkie
From: Winnipeg, MB Canada
Registered: 2009-07-08
Posts: 263

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

rolling distros.  Well lmde LinuxMintDebianEditio is testing only in name.  If enabled by the user the systemd is version2.04.    LMDE was fairly quiet about their intended move to stable so as to finally get more security fixes, etc.  LMDE2 will be stable.  Stable and sysv.   Cinnamon might get to 2.4 in LMDE2, but possibly only 2.2  Say what you will, it might be the best introduction to debian and linux for the windows refugees, especially all those people running XP and it's assorted trojans.  I personally can stand mate.  I have it on an Acer aspire one. 

I can't remember, but I thought i read that solydx is also moving to stable.  Soemone else can sleuth that one out. 

That leaves Sparky Linux as a true rolling debian testing distro, which is a quite nice place to hang out in and has some decent support.  They have like 6 versions including a lxqt - openbox with .debs from the siduction repo for lxqt.  Full blown gnome3, xfce,  mate, evolveos, wow. 

http://sparkylinux.org/download/testing/

http://sparkylinux.org/download/

Taglu is also supposed to be a rolling testing distro, I had problems installing it. ymmv.  sweet dreams getting late.


Jean Vanier wrote "Being Human" and "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright.  Gotta love the Massey Lectures.

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#16 2015-02-08 08:01:49

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,083
Website

Re: in the one true #! to rule them all... systemd? devuan?

oh, i suppose i should throw my chips in too.

i'm not planning on using anything with systemd.  i've been properly trying it out in three different systems, getting to learn it on a user and configuration level... but that's ever more a case of "know thy enemy".  from all i learn of it beyond mere use and the tangible bits i'll see, i find it deeply repugnant, to the point i've taken to referring to it as systemdoze.  i say this only to depict the extent of my dislike, and wont bother attempting any exhausting elaborations or futile attempts to convince you of this position (that's not what this thread's for anyway).

suffice to say, i see devuan (in principle) being more befitting.  remember we used to be on ubuntu.  this is no big traversty to go from debian to devuan.  i suggest it's even in keeping with crunchbang's trajectory... or at least such is my perception.

(gl guys, i'ma b gone for a bit)

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