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#26 2015-01-22 20:54:29

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

ov wrote:

I didn't mean to sound negative, I am just trying to understand why someone would prefer it that way.

Whoops, I didn't mean to sound negative either big_smile

ov wrote:

Maybe for a text-only panel?

I think it's mostly this, most minimalists like this; I have seen quite a few screenshots like this.


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#27 2015-01-22 21:17:56

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

ov wrote:
brontosaurusrex wrote:

c. The ability to have text-only launchers:

This has some disadvantages: it would not scale well without menus (text takes a lot of space), and it is not possible at the moment to have any kind of menus in tint2.

What is the benefit? Normally, launchers are used for often-used applications (so that you do not have to search for them in the start menu), so normally the user knows what the application is based on the icon. If not, there are tooltips.

It would also create some confusion because launcher items would then look similar to taskbar buttons.

Another approach would be to just keep launchers as they are and make a possibility to make tasks permanent (< Thats probably a dock?).

I imagine that would also need a 3rd state in ... the design section thingy.

Tasks would be made permanent by pressing a secret key-combination (configurable), and another secret key combination (configurable) would rename them (that name would only hold as long as the task is killed).

I think that would also go with a tint2 "simplicity" and would be extremely crunchy.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-01-22 21:19:54)

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#28 2015-01-22 21:27:47

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Thanks, brontosaurusrex.

Feature request for text-only launchers: https://code.google.com/p/tint2/issues/detail?id=457

Feature request for dock mode: https://code.google.com/p/tint2/issues/detail?id=356

I cannot make any promises regarding if/when they will be implemented.

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#29 2015-01-22 22:02:59

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 1,007

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

[deleted something intended as a joke]

Last edited by porkpiehat (2015-01-22 23:14:29)

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#30 2015-01-22 23:39:42

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

[deleted something intended as a guffaw] smile


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#31 2015-01-23 00:49:51

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

[deleted silly question about vegetarian dragons]

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#32 2015-01-23 00:51:36

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: V-Ger
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,165
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Re: tint2 - request for feedback

@ov

It has been a pleasure keeping the project alive the last 4 years


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#33 2015-01-23 01:05:22

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

WooHoo - the Baconator and the Vast One here at the same time - nice to see you again big_smile


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#34 2015-01-23 08:12:52

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

VastOne wrote:

@ov

It has been a pleasure keeping the project alive the last 4 years

Thanks for the kind words. I haven't done much compared to the other project members, they deserve the praise smile

In any case, I am using tint2 everyday and I will do my best to keep it working.

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#35 2015-04-25 21:47:50

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

I am happy to let you know that tint2 0.12-rc1 has been released cool

See https://gitlab.com/o9000/tint2/blob/master/README.md for changelog, docs and download&compilation instructions.

Note that this is a release candidate so things may not work smoothly. If that is the case, please let me know. Feedback is needed especially for the new configuration GUI tint2conf (note: it should make a backup of ~/.config/tint2/tint2rc automatically, but I suggest making also a manual backup to be sure).

A stable release is planned for this summer.

P.S. tint2 has moved to GitLab because Google Code hosting is shutting down.

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#36 2015-04-27 15:31:06

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

@ov: Nice, some notes in random order (Jessie):
a. tint2conf is complex to understand (large quantities of tool-tip text might help)
http://shrani.si/f/I/sk/27TSGEgX/2015-0 … 920x12.png (For example, what do i clicky to get apps available?)
b. I like the "distribute size between taskbars" , isn't that "distribute size between workspace taskbar placeholders" ?
c. Icons are still behaving (No, I will not go over this again), see the terminator icon in the snapshot for example.
d. Perhaps add some additional instructions to compile

sudo apt-get build-dep tint2
sudo apt-get install librsvg2-2.0 librsvg2-dev

and don't forget to cd ..

..
cmake ..
cd .. # add this
make -j4
..

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-04-27 15:47:53)

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#37 2015-04-27 16:39:18

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Thanks for the feedback, I'm doing my best to fix everything that might go wrong.

brontosaurusrex wrote:

tool-tip text might help

tint2conf has tooltips for all config options. They don't appear for you? sad

brontosaurusrex wrote:

what do i clicky to get apps available?

The apps available list should be populated automatically with all applications found in /usr/share/applications and ~/.local/share/applications. I don't know why it's empty for you sad

Is this the latest CrunchBang? I will try to reproduce on a clean install. P.S. Nevermind, I saw it's Jessie.

brontosaurusrex wrote:

c. Icons are still behaving (No, I will not go over this again), see the terminator icon in the snapshot for example.

You mean the icon of the first window in the taskbar (the one titled "/bin/bash") shouldn't be red? tint2 doesn't select the window icons, it just asks the X server for it, which gets it from the application. tint2 has no control over what icon the application serves.

The launcher icons is a different story, tint2 has to look for those. But I don't see any launcher icon there.

brontosaurusrex wrote:

and don't forget to cd ..

You should not have to cd there. You are supposed to compile in the build directory. Even more, building in the parent directory shouldn't work at all because there is no Makefile there. Are you sure that's what you did?

-------------------

Edit: Just tried tint2conf on Debian Jessie and there is a ton of glib errors in the terminal. Looks like they changed something in the API, I will look into it.

-------------------

Edit: Fixed the empty 'Available apps' in the latest commit. You can compile it with:

wget 'https://gitlab.com/o9000/tint2/repository/archive.tar.gz?ref=master' --output-document tint2-master.tar.gz
tar -xzf tint2-master.tar.gz
cd tint2.git
mkdir build
cd build
cmake ..
make -j4
./tint2 &
./src/tint2conf/tint2conf &

Also, tooltips work fine for me on Debian Jessie.

Last edited by ov (2015-04-27 17:28:11)

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#38 2015-04-27 17:25:19

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

@ov;

- I redid it from start (with deps already in place) and cd .. was not necessary this time, so my mistake, also tool-tips are now functional.
- No idea why icons behave, docky certainly finds the right one, scrot
http://shrani.si/f/11/wR/3Vrya0ZD/dockyandtintcrop.png
- about missing applications, perhaps something is missing in my deps?

(tint2conf:1835): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_tree_model_get_iter: assertion 'GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed

(tint2conf:1835): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_tree_model_get_iter: assertion 'GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
Desktop files loaded

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#39 2015-04-27 17:29:37

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Just fixed the missing apps problem, see previous post.

I will look at what docky does, maybe we need to specify a theme name or something.

------

Edit: I looked and tint2 is working according to the spec. The icon is given to tint2 directly as an image as specified here http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spe … 0472568384.

Docky happens to work because being a dock, it combines the launcher with the taskbar. Thus it overrides the application's taskbar icon with the launcher icon.  I don't want to override the icon in tint2 because some applications change the icons for good reason and overriding it would break that.

Exactly the same mechanism is used to get the window title: tint2 has no business deciding what it should show, it is the application's responsibility to set it.

Unfortunately you are right that there are many apps that do not respect the theme. But if you report a bug to those projects I'm sure most will be willing to fix it; they probably haven't realized this is a problem. For example Chrome used to not respect the icon theme either, until they got a bug report and they fixed it.

Last edited by ov (2015-04-27 17:50:26)

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#40 2015-04-27 17:56:57

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Testing the new one;
thenewone.jpg
(seems to be working fine, only now "we" have three different sets of icons: One in launchbar, one in taskbar and another in tint2conf)
p.s. At this point I'd probably go with something like this (just to avoid iconography & without launcher)
likethis2.jpg
tint2rc http://paste.debian.net/plain/169390

For example Chrome used to not respect the icon theme either, until they got a bug report and they fixed it

I'd totally vote for a workaround in tint2 itself, unless it is uber complicated, bugs can still be reported to specific app.

p.s. The distribute size could have an option on min width for empty/less populated desktops.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-04-27 19:46:58)

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#41 2015-04-27 21:12:32

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

I did a bit of digging into what terminator is doing, using:

strace terminator 2>&1 | grep stat

It does explore the Clarity icon folders but never attempts to open scalable/apps/terminator.svg and falls back to the hicolor icon.

The code that loads the icon is /usr/share/terminator/terminatorlib/window.py around line 5200:

    def apply_icon(self):
        """Set the window icon"""
        icon_theme = gtk.IconTheme()

        try:
            icon = icon_theme.load_icon(APP_NAME, 48, 0)
            print icon
        except (NameError, gobject.GError):
            dbg('Unable to load 48px Terminator icon')
            icon = self.render_icon(gtk.STOCK_DIALOG_INFO, gtk.ICON_SIZE_BUTTON)

        self.set_icon(icon)

The load_icon method is documented here: http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/cl … -load-icon

I printed APP_NAME, it is "terminator".

I tried to use icon_theme.load_icon(APP_NAME, 0, 0) to no avail so I reverted the change.

Then I did:

rm /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/terminator.svg
rm /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/terminator.png

No change.

I copied Clarity-icon-xxxxx/scalable/apps/terminator.svg to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/terminator.svg , nothing.

Finally I also changed the code to icon_theme.load_icon(APP_NAME, 0, 0) and it works!

Moral of the story: direct all your curses towards GTK.

---------
P.S. tint2conf and tint2 use the same code for loading launcher icons. The results should be identical. Also, the icon theme config option should be left blank unless your DE/icon theme is broken.

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#42 2015-04-28 10:15:20

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

my curses would be;
a. The distribute size could have an option on min width for empty/less populated desktops.
b. Launchers should have some sort of minimum intelligence, perhaps disable clicking for N seconds when click is detected (or something along that way, some sort of visual feedback as well...)
c. Icons

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-04-28 10:15:41)

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#43 2015-04-28 13:26:12

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Actually I'm sorry about what I said about GTK, they normally do a good job.

a: Actually I tried that, but it looked ugly and wasted space. When the desktop is almost full, every pixel counts.

b: There should be visual feedback with libstartup-notifications (busy cursor). But if the mouse theme is not having a busy cursor it won't work. Regarding multiple click prevention, is that for broken mouse buttons that sometimes trigger multiple clicks? If so, I will keep it in mind.

c: I understand and I'm really sorry sad But I still think it shouldn't be fixed in tint2, for multiple reasons:
* it's hard to play detective and figure out which icon belongs to which application (e.g. in Google Chrome the binary is called from a wrapper script, which is listed in the .desktop file; how is tint2 supposed to know they are the same)
* looking for icons among ALL the applications on the system can take seconds even on a SSD (that's why tint2conf starts so slowly)
* wine applications will be broken
* virtual machines offering seamless mode will be broken
* applications that change the icon dynamically (usually IM clients) will be broken
* the alt-tab switcher gets the icon the same way as tint2, so that will still be different. It's better to fix the applications than try to work around the problem in all the other places.

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#44 2015-04-28 13:41:36

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

b. No, just a clumsy user prevention.

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#45 2015-04-28 19:28:12

PackRat
#! Die Hard
From: USA
Registered: 2011-03-03
Posts: 1,572

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Compiled tint2 today - 28 April - it would not work with the malys icon set svg files. I even copied one over to ~/.config/tint2 and tried to load it directly from there.

Works fine with some other svg icons I have.


"It does not require many words to speak the truth." - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce tribe

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#46 2015-05-03 14:24:24

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

I bumped the RC version to 0.12-rc3 as I fixed some rendering problems of icons (launcher/taskbar/systray).

I have also looked at the malys icon theme: many of the files have the extension svg while the content is actually png. I made the code work around this; however the change did not make into into RC3, you can find it in master.

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#47 2015-05-03 21:18:28

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

@ov:  In general, I love Tint2.  Thank you and the other developers for such a great app.  I've not noticed any bugs in my 2+ years of using Tint2.

I would like to make one request...how about a graphical battery charge/discharge indicator?  The text based one is fine, but a graphical indicator would be a nice addition.  That way we wouldn't be beholden to the whims of the XFCE developers who thought it a feature to remove the battery indicator from the xfce-power-manager package.  roll

Last edited by KrunchTime (2015-05-03 21:20:57)


Linux User #586672
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#48 2015-05-04 08:50:34

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

If something is working, why remove it?!

There are two ways to approach this.

One way is to add a format string to the battery applet that could be used to display an icon instead of the usual text. We might also have to deal with laptops with two batteries, which tint2 does not support at the moment.

The other way is to write an independent application that shows an icon in the system tray. This is easier and faster to implement, because it could be written in python, for instance.

Some time ago I wrote a python script that checks my mail https://code.google.com/p/pmn/source/browse/pmn.py because on bad wifi all the mail clients I used kept timing out and I was getting new mail notifications with a long delay. It was quite easy (minus the SSL certificate validation that python2 did not support until recently). I can adapt it to show a battery icon instead.

In any case, the battery changes will not get into tint2 0.12. I want to get the stable release out and then we'll see.

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#49 2015-05-06 21:56:41

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

@ov:  The best graphic monitor used to be in the xfce-power-manager package.  There are separate standalone apps, but I haven't found any as good IMO.

I didn't expect you to get right to work on it.  It was just a suggestion/request.


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#50 2015-05-07 09:23:31

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

I understand. Now that the work for releasing tint2-0.12 is almost finished, maybe I will have time to look into this. It would also solve bug https://gitlab.com/o9000/tint2/issues/139 which is a pain to fix in tint2, but would be quite easy with systray icons. Also, as a python script, it would be quite easy to write. I expect to get a well working, cross-platform (the BSDs need some love too) applet in 20 hours.

You know, this is a common problem of applications integrated into a desktop environment: they made a change that is invisible as long as you use the full Xfce, but when you want to combine parts of it with other DEs it's difficult or impossible. I've seen it many times (particularly with KDE apps). This is something that wouldn't have happened if the power manager was an independent project. Being independent also adds more value to the project, for example conky is much "better" than whatever KDE uses as resource-monitor-desktop-applet this year.

(Edit: fixed last sentence)

Last edited by ov (2015-05-07 09:25:30)

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