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#1 2015-01-21 22:59:59

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

tint2 - request for feedback

Greetings #!-ers,

I am one of the contributors to the tint2 project (I wrote the launcher and also made a few other minor bugfixes).

As you might have seen, there has not been a lot of development activity over the last 2 years. I am planning to change this, first by fixing some bugs and solving common problems. On my TODO list I have:

* A new option to force disabling transparency instead of (mis)detecting it, useful for broken graphics stacks (such as my laptop's);
* Better launcher icon lookup (try harder to find the application icons, e.g. by also searching other themes if no icon was found in the current theme. This happens for instance with some apps on Ubuntu);
* SVG icon support (merge the changes from https://github.com/ixxra/tint2-svg;
* An option to specify on which desktop to place the system tray (aka notification area).
* Fixing other bugs from the bugtracker that I can reproduce.

Additionally, the new tint2 configuration GUI (tint2conf) is almost done, I will commit it soon. Hopefully tint2 will see a new release in a few months smile

Could you please point out to me if you have other problems with tint2 that you would like to see solved (preferably defects/minor enhancements, not entirely new features)? You may discuss them here or on the official bugtracker https://code.google.com/p/tint2/issues/list

Your feedback will be much appreciated, as some of the bug reports on the tracker are really old and hard to reproduce.

Thanks!

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#2 2015-01-21 23:20:02

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

I haven't seen this first-hand with my current system, but we've had quite a few threads about utilities launching, putting an icon in the systray, and not releasing the real estate when the icon goes away.  (I had seen this with xfce4-power-manager when I still had my netbook; I understand there's a Google appointment application that does this, and I'm sure there are many others.)  From what I've read at the tint2 project mailing lists, this is a gtk issue, but if it's possible to have tint2 work around it, that might make many users here happy.

I haven't done much research into this, but I was thinking if the systrays in gnome-panel and xfce4-panel don't have this problem, it might help to look at their code...

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#3 2015-01-21 23:21:06

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Since tint2 is not a Window Manager or Desktop manager I  moved it here.

Welcome to Crunchbang ov, hope you get the feedback you are looking for.


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#4 2015-01-21 23:35:25

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

^ This actually raises a question relevant to my previous post.  Is the systray problem WM-dependent?  Are the systray applications better behaved in, for example, XFWM4 or Gnome than they are in Openbox?

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#5 2015-01-22 01:40:02

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Interesting, The only thing I use tint2 for today is the 'systray'  and I do have a question about it.

I'd like to see an option (for all elements of tint2) to display the "group of displayed icons" with options:

left
centre
right

Like this for my systray:
icons as they are now, on the left | the 'group' centred | and on the right
2015_01_21_22_29_09_1920x1080_Sector11.jpg
image » gimped


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#6 2015-01-22 01:50:56

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

There are several open issues related to the systray problem already, which were not solved because we could not reproduce them:

* https://code.google.com/p/tint2/issues/detail?id=275 and all its duplicates;
* https://code.google.com/p/tint2/issues/detail?id=378.

I remember that there were also a couple of cases in which the applications were broken and implementing a workaround in tint2 would have been difficult.

Regarding xfce4-power-manager: I am using Ubuntu with XFCE and it has never disappeared for me. However if this is happening with some consistency on CrunchBang I could install it in a virtual machine to take a look.

I am going to search the forum for other possible cases, probably in the weekend.

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#7 2015-01-22 02:13:09

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Sector11 wrote:

Interesting, The only thing I use tint2 for today is the 'systray'  and I do have a question about it.

I'd like to see an option (for all elements of tint2) to display the "group of displayed icons" with options:

left
centre
right

Like this for my systray:
icons as they are now, on the left | the 'group' centred | and on the right
http://s20.postimg.org/s2cyazrv1/2015_0 … ctor11.jpg
image » gimped

I created a new bug for this:

https://code.google.com/p/tint2/issues/detail?id=454

I will have to think about it. In your case, wouldn't it be nicer if the panel would instead shrink to the minimum size? AFAIK that is not possible at the moment either, but it could be a better looking solution.

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#8 2015-01-22 02:29:11

paxmark1
#! Junkie
From: Winnipeg, MB Canada
Registered: 2009-07-08
Posts: 263

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Just tickled pink to read this is all. 

I had seen that not much had happened with tint2 development, but sometimes things are made so well that they can remain pretty much the same.  I have been trying to crunchify a debian testing net install with xfce4 tray and also have plank on a siduction netbook with lxqt and openbox.  But, I knew deep in my heart that I had no problems with tint2 on my stable #! and liked the amount and size and placement of the information and access that it displayed. 

Thanks


Jean Vanier wrote "Being Human" and "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright.  Gotta love the Massey Lectures.

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#9 2015-01-22 02:54:44

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

ov wrote:

I created a new bug for this:

https://code.google.com/p/tint2/issues/detail?id=454

I will have to think about it. In your case, wouldn't it be nicer if the panel would instead shrink to the minimum size? AFAIK that is not possible at the moment either, but it could be a better looking solution.

Actually that would be prefect ... as it is; it's either a fixed width or a percentage of the screen width.

It seems to work that way , sizing itself according to the icons, when using the full setup.
Direct Link: http://postimg.org/image/5exp4ucax/

Must say I've liked tint2 since I first saw it when I came to #!.


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#10 2015-01-22 07:54:23

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

pvsage wrote:

Is the systray problem WM-dependent?

It is not, it should be WM-independent.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#11 2015-01-22 10:39:29

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

I'd like to see:
a. The ability to setup launchers manually as well;
launcher_item_app_manual = /path/to/bin, /path/to/icon.svg
b. The ability to position launcher tab in the middle of the taskbars
launcher_tab_position = "after 1st taskbar"

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-01-22 10:41:30)

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#12 2015-01-22 10:42:10

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Hi!

Launcher doesn't provide tooltips, only for task provide, i have manipulated tint2 to look like a dock (see pic): but i wish to customize tooltip for each icon/option.

EsuCju4.png

# Tint2 config file
# For information on manually configuring tint2 see http://code.google.com/p/tint2/wiki/Configure

# Background definitions

# ID 1
rounded = 2
border_width = 1
background_color = #141414 0
border_color = #929292 0

# Panel
panel_monitor = all
panel_position = left left vertical
panel_items = L
panel_size = 650 35
panel_margin = 5 0
panel_padding = 300 0 
panel_dock = 0
wm_menu = 1
panel_background_id = 0

#strut_policy = follow_size
strut_policy = none

# Launcher
launcher_icon_theme = whiteMA
launcher_padding = 0 0 3
launcher_background_id = 1
launcher_icon_size = 64
launcher_item_app = /usr/share/applications/spacefm.desktop
launcher_item_app = /usr/share/applications/rxvt-unicode.desktop
launcher_item_app = /usr/share/applications/iceweasel.desktop
launcher_item_app = /usr/share/applications/gthumb.desktop
launcher_item_app = /usr/share/applications/deadbeef.desktop
launcher_item_app = /usr/share/applications/utor.desktop
launcher_item_app = /usr/share/applications/skype.desktop

Even if i put the tooltip code below doesn't provide any tooltip.

#---------------------------------------------
# TOOLTIPS
#---------------------------------------------

tooltip = 1
tooltip_padding = 3 3
tooltip_show_timeout = 0.0
tooltip_hide_timeout = 0.0
tooltip_background_id = 1
tooltip_font_color = #FFFFFF 70
tooltip_font = cure 7

So is possible to provide tooltip for cuztomized icons those .desktop "skype, utor, deadbeef,gthumb,rxvt,spacefm"?

Tint2 is fantastic even to use as a dock, it's truly lightweight, wonder why do i want to use docky when tint2 is simple awesome?

Thank you for providing updates.

Kindly regards,
Nili


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#13 2015-01-22 11:18:09

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

brontosaurusrex wrote:

I'd like to see:
a. The ability to setup launchers manually as well;
launcher_item_app_manual = /path/to/bin, /path/to/icon.svg

This can already be done by writing custom .desktop files, placing them, for instance, in ~/.local/share/applications and adding them from there. This is how I do it.

brontosaurusrex wrote:

b. The ability to position launcher tab in the middle of the taskbars
launcher_tab_position = "after 1st taskbar"

Sorry, but I don't understand. The order of the panel items is configurable already? Or do you mean between the tasks?

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#14 2015-01-22 11:33:30

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Thanks for keeping tint2 alive.  New bug submitted for "panel_layer = normal" configuration.

+1 on SVG icons

Last edited by cpoakes (2015-01-22 13:42:32)


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#15 2015-01-22 11:53:42

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Nili wrote:

Launcher doesn't provide tooltips, only for task provide, i have manipulated tint2 to look like a dock (see pic): but i wish to customize tooltip for each icon/option.

In the latest svn revision, the launcher uses the "Name" field in the .desktop file for the tooltip. Are you talking about switching between launcher button tooltip and task tooltip dynamically?

This is not possible at the moment, and unfortunately I don't think there are any plans to implement dock mode in the near future. The task handling logic is already complicated, and adding this would make it quite hairy. It would require a lot of time from us, which we do not have, to test for all the corner cases sad

I have seen that some people use tint2 as a dock using some magic that changes the launcher section in tint2rc and generates/removes .desktop files automatically with a script. That's impressive, I did not realize this was possible. Actually, I found these kind of instructions on the #! forum, with many other interesting threads about tint2. Seeing that there are so many regular and power users of tint2 here, I decided it is the best place to ask for feedback.

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#16 2015-01-22 11:57:11

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

cpoakes wrote:

Thanks for keeping tint2 alive.  New bug submitted for "panel_layer = normal" configuration.

+1 on SVG icons

Thanks!

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#17 2015-01-22 12:06:16

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

cpoakes wrote:

Thanks for keeping tint2 alive.  New bug submitted for "panel_layer = normal" configuration.

+1 on SVG icons

Should be fixed in https://code.google.com/p/tint2/source/detail?r=664. Please use panel_dock = 0 in the config.

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#18 2015-01-22 12:07:33

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

Many thanks for all effort on tint2 ov and the guys behind it.

I just wish tint2 to read and provide tooltip only the application name on mause over eg:  spacefm.desktop or simple spacefm just like do with TASK, for taskbar but you very well explained that seems difficult, perhaps impossible? who know one day may be possible.

Your posting for the closeness of tint2 with dock gives me a hope. You know man, all Docks application are so and so, they eat a lot memory even cpu, tint2 suck just 0.2mb, i can tell you tint2 beat all docks applications with a punch. smile

Wish many more success in tint2 fantastic project.
Kindly regards,
/Nili

Last edited by Nili (2015-01-22 12:10:13)


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#19 2015-01-22 12:24:24

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

ov wrote:
brontosaurusrex wrote:

I'd like to see:
a. The ability to setup launchers manually as well;
launcher_item_app_manual = /path/to/bin, /path/to/icon.svg

This can already be done by writing custom .desktop files, placing them, for instance, in ~/.local/share/applications and adding them from there. This is how I do it.

brontosaurusrex wrote:

b. The ability to position launcher tab in the middle of the taskbars
launcher_tab_position = "after 1st taskbar"

Sorry, but I don't understand. The order of the panel items is configurable already? Or do you mean between the tasks?

a. I know, but the direct approach would be easier/faster/more-direct/more-crunchy.
b. Illustration http://shrani.si/f/14/Ox/t6Nd5d3/here.jpg

Oh, another one two:
c. The ability to have text-only launchers:

launcher_item_app_manual = "/path/to/geany", label="text editor" 

d. Not sure whats the git state, but some minimal self-awarnes for launchers, so when they are clicked the 2nd time, the already running app would not start again.... and such < Unless that would mean large quantities of code/would make tint2 a lot heavier.

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2015-01-22 12:39:50)

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#20 2015-01-22 13:29:19

PackRat
#! Die Hard
From: USA
Registered: 2011-03-03
Posts: 1,572

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

c. The ability to have text-only launchers:

Another vote for this one.


"It does not require many words to speak the truth." - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce tribe

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#21 2015-01-22 16:28:21

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

brontosarusrex wrote:

d. Not sure whats the git state, but some minimal self-awarnes for launchers, so when they are clicked the 2nd time, the already running app would not start again.... and such < Unless that would mean large quantities of code/would make tint2 a lot heavier.

Please gawd no, unless:

  1. The behaviour is optional, and

  2. The existing behaviour is the default for backward compatibility.

When I launch a terminal, I want a new terminal! Not the last one started!


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#22 2015-01-22 16:56:24

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

What cpoakes said:

A huge Plus One on that!

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#23 2015-01-22 17:51:58

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

brontosaurusrex wrote:

b. The ability to position launcher tab in the middle of the taskbars
launcher_tab_position = "after 1st taskbar"

I see. This needs some thinking.

brontosaurusrex wrote:

c. The ability to have text-only launchers:

This has some disadvantages: it would not scale well without menus (text takes a lot of space), and it is not possible at the moment to have any kind of menus in tint2.

What is the benefit? Normally, launchers are used for often-used applications (so that you do not have to search for them in the start menu), so normally the user knows what the application is based on the icon. If not, there are tooltips.

It would also create some confusion because launcher items would then look similar to taskbar buttons.

You know it is possible to add items to the launcher that show a start menu when clicked? For instance I use an custom .desktop item that opens the XFCE start menu:

[Desktop Entry]
Version=1.0
Name=XFCE Start Menu
GenericName=Start Menu
# Gnome and KDE 3 uses Comment.
Comment=Start Menu
Exec=xfdesktop --menu
Terminal=false
Icon=xfce4-menu
Type=Application
Categories=Utility;
brontosaurusrex wrote:

d. Not sure whats the git state, but some minimal self-awarnes for launchers, so when they are clicked the 2nd time, the already running app would not start again.... and such < Unless that would mean large quantities of code/would make tint2 a lot heavier.

As the others have pointed out, managing how many windows/instances are open is up to the application, not the panel. But IIUC you were speaking about what is needed to get a dock working.

For the next release, I am planning to include only bugfixes, the launcher and the configuration GUI. Afterwards, I might work on a dock if I have time.

Last edited by ov (2015-01-22 17:57:35)

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#24 2015-01-22 18:52:12

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

ov wrote:
brontosaurusrex wrote:

c. The ability to have text-only launchers:

This has some disadvantages: it would not scale well without menus (text takes a lot of space), and it is not possible at the moment to have any kind of menus in tint2.

What is the benefit? Normally, launchers are used for often-used applications (so that you do not have to search for them in the start menu), so normally the user knows what the application is based on the icon. If not, there are tooltips.

Some people like the looks of it, which I think is the main reason for wanting it.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#25 2015-01-22 20:48:07

ov
#! Member
Registered: 2015-01-21
Posts: 54

Re: tint2 - request for feedback

I didn't mean to sound negative, I am just trying to understand why someone would prefer it that way. Maybe for a text-only panel? Or is there another reason than aesthetics? Sometimes people choose impractical workarounds for problems that have better solutions.

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