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#276 2014-11-09 23:43:04

twoion
Moderator
Registered: 2012-05-11
Posts: 1,648

Re: boycott systemd

^ You may watch the talks about OpenBSD's and FreeBSD's X11 situation from this year's XDC then. Their greatest problem, and what they mostly port, is device (including graphics) drivers. IMHO what they'd be hung up about right know is related to stuff that /requires/ systemd functionality, and in the BSD world that is mostly GNOME or GNOMEish or desktopish software. They have GNOME 3.12 running just fine without some systemdish parts and could probably do without it.

The core OpenBSD system (which I know a little bit about) is a integreated, consistent and proven software system into which systemd (which cannot live up to their project's quality standard anyway) wouldn't fit to begin with. Besides, -- and maybe that argument can be extended to other BSDs --, their leadership is much more centralized and, as a matter of fact, more powerful, so that in the totally unlikely event that people of Theo de Raadt calibre would consider using parts of the systemd code, you could be quite sure that is Most Likely Good Stuff.

Last edited by twoion (2014-11-09 23:44:37)


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#277 2014-11-10 01:10:36

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

That is pretty interesting. I have used OpenBSD a few times, and I really liked it, though truthfully I didn't get to use it much. I wonder how the other BSDs will cope as KDE becomes more integrated with it? I know they are planning to.

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#278 2014-11-10 03:41:53

common-sense
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2014-09-08
Posts: 130

Re: boycott systemd

jeffreyC wrote:

But not everything new is an improvement either.

Just because it is new does not automatically make it good or bad.

Just because it is old does not automatically make it good or bad.

(And W8 sucks because it sucks)

Nope, but oldtimers seem to think that linux should be just for them, and optimized forthe way that they use their computers. But everyone should understand that the way people use computers are changing, and linux has to change with it. Nope, the average user  is not 60+ and sitting nicely in front of a desktop pc.

I'm using W 8.1 myself, and it doesn't suck at all. It's by far the best Windows release to date, and people who are used to smartphones and pads, has absolutely no problem using W8. But obviously, people who still think that XP is nice, they will have issues. The development has to be for modern users, and the oldtimers just got to keep to the best of their ability. Get on board, or be left behind. Easy as that smile

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#279 2014-11-10 04:59:57

jdonaghy
The Manatee Whisperer
Registered: 2014-03-12
Posts: 925

Re: boycott systemd

^ I'm far from an old timer (23), and I love Android, but I still think Windows 8.1 sucks. That kind of interface is fine on smartphones and tablets, but, on a desktop OS, I find it disrupts the workflow...  As I said in the other thread, navigating just sucks. I don't have a "problem" using it. It's just not efficient. Windows 7 is probably my favorite Microsoft release.

To each his own, I suppose. I have a lot of friends who run Windows 8/8.1. I never particularly liked using their machines. Now that I have it on one of mine, I still don't care for it.

Edit: I'm 24. Forgot about my age there for a second. Lol

Last edited by jdonaghy (2014-11-10 05:13:45)


"If you can't control your peanut butter, you can't expect to control your life."
    --Bill Watterson

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#280 2014-11-10 05:44:10

jeffreyC
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2010-09-02
Posts: 596

Re: boycott systemd

^ What he said +1

I do not and will not have a touchscreen on my computer, trying to force me to use an interface that is meant for touchscreens is bleeping stupid and asinine.
(/end of off topic rant)


There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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#281 2014-11-10 06:08:43

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

I really don't think age is the issue here. Lack of experience, maybe.

Nope, but oldtimers seem to think that linux should be just for them, and optimized forthe way that they use their computers. But everyone should understand that the way people use computers are changing, and linux has to change with it. Nope, the average user  is not 60+ and sitting nicely in front of a desktop pc.

Linux isn't Windows. it never was. It use to be the distro maintainers handed it to you and said "here you go, do with it what you will." This meant you could optimize how you wanted, to meet your own individual needs. The problem with the whippersnappers is they don't want to have to actually do any work to optimize there own system. They seem content to let someone else do that for them. I guess I should just be happy and let Red Hat make all of my decisions for me. Why not? It seems to work for Microsoft and Apple, right?  wink

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#282 2014-11-10 07:53:14

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: boycott systemd

There is a thread on the Debian forums by @fruitofloom (one of the oldtimers) listing non-systemd operating systems:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319

As you can see from his reply, he was not impressed by my suggestion...  :8

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2014-11-10 07:53:52)

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#283 2014-11-10 08:26:13

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: boycott systemd

Give your vote against systemd


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#284 2014-11-10 08:31:28

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: boycott systemd

^ I voted to accept it -- looks like we're winning... ]:D

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#285 2014-11-10 08:50:10

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: boycott systemd

Ultimately Debian will lose users. :8 People have other alternatives. tongue Debian perhaps not, RedHat has stuck their feet.  ]:D


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#286 2014-11-10 13:15:41

common-sense
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2014-09-08
Posts: 130

Re: boycott systemd

jdonaghy wrote:

^ I'm far from an old timer (23), and I love Android, but I still think Windows 8.1 sucks. That kind of interface is fine on smartphones and tablets, but, on a desktop OS, I find it disrupts the workflow...  As I said in the other thread, navigating just sucks. I don't have a "problem" using it. It's just not efficient. Windows 7 is probably my favorite Microsoft release.

To each his own, I suppose. I have a lot of friends who run Windows 8/8.1. I never particularly liked using their machines. Now that I have it on one of mine, I still don't care for it.

Edit: I'm 24. Forgot about my age there for a second. Lol

Navigating in W 8.1?  Windows-button, type a letter or two, and then you got it. It really shouldn't be a challenge for linux users that are customed to launching apps by their commands, or by using keybindings and keyboard shortcuts. Yes, W8 sucks if you are going to navigate by clicking with a mouse...., but that's not the intention with W8. Who the heck used the startmenu in W7? The search function has been faster for a long time, and W8 is actually not that different to Ubuntu and Unity in that regard. The search functions are the corner-stones in navigation, and off course, if you're not using it as you're supposed to, then you will not like the system.

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#287 2014-11-10 13:30:25

common-sense
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2014-09-08
Posts: 130

Re: boycott systemd

jeffreyC wrote:

^ What he said +1

I do not and will not have a touchscreen on my computer, trying to force me to use an interface that is meant for touchscreens is bleeping stupid and asinine.
(/end of off topic rant)

But are you able to hit the windows-button and type a letter or two? It's designed to work well without a mouse. You should regard the possibility to use a mouse, as a supplementary navigation method for those that do not want to learn the basics of the GUI.  Just like "Unity". But the mouse works well in your web-browser and other full programs, and that's what the mouse is for. The "Apps" and navigation isn't intended to be used with a mouse. It's just an option for those that resist change.

I'm also a bit surprised that linux users depend on the mouse like that. With all the commands and shortcut keys we use. I don't click my way to obconf or lxappearance...

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#288 2014-11-10 14:14:25

jdonaghy
The Manatee Whisperer
Registered: 2014-03-12
Posts: 925

Re: boycott systemd

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/ … en-laptop/

This article = exactly how I feel about touchscreens on desktop computers. I'm not resisting change. I just also happen to find them uncomfortable and "ergonomically terrible." Tablets and phones, sure, because you hold them in your hands. But on a desktop.. Just no.

Last edited by jdonaghy (2014-11-10 14:15:15)


"If you can't control your peanut butter, you can't expect to control your life."
    --Bill Watterson

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#289 2014-11-10 14:17:18

TicTac
#! Junkie
From: Wherever You Go, There You Are
Registered: 2014-10-23
Posts: 256

Re: boycott systemd

^Agreed

8+ was a pig, is a pig and forever will be the most un-intuitive, obnoxious, counter productive and ill conceived "pig" of an operating system... In history. Well done Microsoft, wish you would have at least included the "mouse is supplementary" part... On the back of the box.

Last edited by TicTac (2014-11-10 14:23:00)


"Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing."   

The Dude.

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#290 2014-11-10 21:33:56

common-sense
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2014-09-08
Posts: 130

Re: boycott systemd

I also agree. I don't want a touch-screen on my desktop-pc, my laptop or my televison-set. But W8.1 is just as good without a touch-screen. If people just would take a minute and find out how they can navigate with the keyboard and use the search function, they would be fine. I also hate that ugly blue screen with the awful tiles. But I only see them when I click the windows button to search.

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#291 2014-11-10 23:17:27

xor
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-01-11
Posts: 775

Re: boycott systemd

Systemd fallout: Joey Hess quits Debian project

http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/ … an-project

Last edited by xor (2014-11-10 23:18:16)

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#292 2014-11-10 23:33:14

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: boycott systemd

xor wrote:

Systemd fallout: Joey Hess quits Debian project

http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/ … an-project

As noted here by twoion

Last edited by damo (2014-11-10 23:33:30)


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#293 2014-11-10 23:35:46

schwim
#! Die Hard
From: Interweb's #1 Devotee
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 1,031
Website

Re: boycott systemd

They lost one seriously righteous neckbeard.

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#294 2014-11-11 17:24:32

m1rr0r5h4d35
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2014-10-03
Posts: 73

Re: boycott systemd

That's kind of crazy. Such a loss for Debian. Has there been any word on what he is planning on doing next?

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#295 2014-11-11 18:45:01

josephg
#! CrunchBanger
From: Surrey
Registered: 2011-10-24
Posts: 165
Website

Re: boycott systemd

gnome (the first one to make systemd a dependancy) goes bang!

Last edited by josephg (2014-11-11 18:45:50)


leaner code is cleaner code is more efficient code

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#296 2014-11-11 19:18:34

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: boycott systemd

josephg wrote:

gnome (the first one to make systemd a dependancy) goes bang!

Please, this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Don't derail this thread.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#297 2014-11-11 19:29:58

josephg
#! CrunchBanger
From: Surrey
Registered: 2011-10-24
Posts: 165
Website

Re: boycott systemd

another one bites the dust sad
maybe i will too.. soon as i find an alternative! can't be bothered to fight any more battles

Last edited by josephg (2014-11-13 10:57:18)


leaner code is cleaner code is more efficient code

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#298 2014-11-11 19:35:14

schwim
#! Die Hard
From: Interweb's #1 Devotee
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 1,031
Website

Re: boycott systemd

Even after my activity lessened more than a decade ago, after I no longer was a carefree student, it was very hard for me to let go. So I’ve hung on.

A little thin on another one "biting the dust". More like quit participating a decade ago and thought it would be fun to join the recent #ragequit wagon.

Maybe We should begin posting links to people's blogs where they state they used Debian in 1999 for a week and have finally decided to mention that they're not going to use it anymore so we can beat the horse further.  I saw him move a week and a half ago.

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#299 2014-11-11 20:20:12

josephg
#! CrunchBanger
From: Surrey
Registered: 2011-10-24
Posts: 165
Website

Re: boycott systemd

btw unia, gnome has everything to do with systemd.. first shot fired by systemd against all the would-be "haters", the anti-change, the anti-development, and the anti-young (wtf?)! there was no option for the debian technical-committee not to propose systemd, as gnome had just been re-adopted by debian.. rewriting all that gnome-bloated garbage is simply not sustainable.

Last edited by josephg (2014-11-11 20:24:36)


leaner code is cleaner code is more efficient code

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#300 2014-11-11 21:04:45

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: boycott systemd

Gnome using systemd has nothing to do with the situation you linked to and as such it serves no purpose in this thread. I see another thread on the matter has been created, so discuss it over there. Now please, back on topic.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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