Debian Forums - such a friendly place.......

excollier · 2013-06-07 14:33:10

Here here!

intoCB · 2013-06-07 16:34:39

Let's visit the Debian forums for a week, shower them with love and bring their poor misguided souls to the light O:)

johnraff · 2013-06-07 16:37:23

Everyone's experiences differ of course, and I haven't spent any great amount of time on the Debian forums, but my impression hasn't been as bad as that of some others here. Google searches have often led to some useful nugget of information, link to someone's patch or recompiled package, and I might add, in those limited visits I ran into some favourable mentions of Crunchbang and the people here...

Just now I went back for another look, and the first post I opened was this: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=47077

No complaints there, right?

VastOne · 2013-06-07 16:45:15

^ Agreed....

I have never had any issues there. The Debian IRC is also a bit if a challenge but once you observe their method of madness it is easy to navigate and get information

Being different does not mean it is wrong

zalew · 2013-06-07 16:59:44

search for threads containing the word ubuntu

VastOne · 2013-06-07 17:01:56

^hmmm I missed something there, what was your point?

I prefer including debian in all searches and choose where I want to go from there

pvsage · 2013-06-07 18:30:44

@VastOne: I believe zalew may be referring to the nickname for Ubuntu occasionally encountered at Debian forums (which I will not repeat here, as it implies sodomy, which further suggests one of 4chan's more deplorable memes) that I alluded to earlier.

edit - changed phrasing just a bit

EDIT2: Even when one does not encounter that nickname, mentioning Ubuntu at any Debian-centric forum tends to invite butthurt.

Last edited by pvsage (2013-06-07 19:02:02)

VastOne · 2013-06-07 18:31:41

^ Thanks

intoCB · 2013-06-07 19:38:46

No bloat. No gloat.

zalew · 2013-06-07 20:51:49

VastOne wrote:

^hmmm I missed something there, what was your point?

the context in which you can metion ubuntu on debian forums is limited basically to telling it's shit and that its users are stupid noobs who haven't yet realized how 1337 they will become once they drop it and switch to debian. otherwise, you'll be the one getting insulted. at first I thought it's just a never ending joke, until I actually saw newcommers called names and moderators not doing anything reasonable about it.

Last edited by zalew (2013-06-07 20:54:14)

Iranon · 2013-06-08 07:46:48

Ubuntu is a particularly sore point. I think the reasoning is something along the lines of...

"Debian is an awesome community project with awesome quality control.

Canoncial takes our testbed, hacks together a few workarounds with no eye towards fixing things properly, adds tacky commercialism, throws away liberty for very shallow gains in convenience, adds some idiotic automation beyond what's sensible, dresses it up and markets the hell out of their less elegant, less sensible, buggy product.

Debian proper is being crowded out, as many external projects depend on their dirty hacks and being slightly more idiot-friendly trumps quality. Ubuntu is standing on our shoulders while widdling on our head".

DebianJoe · 2013-06-08 08:10:05

I'm not going to pretend that I haven't thought exactly what Iranon just said. The animosity towards Canonical shouldn't be directed towards users, though. Most of the new users to GNU/Linux use Ubuntu or Mint because that's what someone suggested as a good place to start. They don't know what Canonical is, or what Debian is. They should be informed by those "in the know," rather than blasted for their choices.

On the other hand, all of that hate should certainly reach the ears of Canonical. They need to know how their foundation's builders feel about what they're doing. I'm sad to say that at this point, I'm not sure it would even matter.

intoCB · 2013-06-08 08:25:57

^If the Debian forums were friendlier, more people would use/remain on Debian. Canonical seem to be moving away from desktop Linux and I think there is a lot of potential to put everything back to normal like at the end of the Dark Crystal:

Debian:

Ubuntu:

excollier · 2013-06-08 08:43:45

And while various linux distro communities fall out and bicker and pick holes in each other's "product/ethos" Windows will continue to laugh all the way to the bank by charging hard cash for their "product" and development/testing.
The trolls at Debian should be proud of how "their" baby grows into myriad different variations, and just stop decrying all that isn't pure distilled Debian. It's FOSS, that's the whole point, surely, not to restrict ideas.
Live and let live, stick together and promote linux as a whole.

zalew · 2013-06-08 09:00:28

^ this

it's a bit like with music: at first people want their favorite artist to become more popular and gather millions, later complain it's became too mainstream and they listened to it before it was cool.

KrunchTime · 2013-06-08 10:01:46

DebianJoe wrote:

If you want help on the Debian forums for Debian related questions, you have to word them correctly:
"Can you please help me get Debian to _____" <---Wrong Way
"Debian Sucks! It can't even ______. In Windows you just _________ and it works." <------Correct Way.

KrunchTime · 2013-06-08 10:13:34

excollier wrote:

The trolls at Debian should be proud of how "their" baby grows into myriad different variations, and just stop decrying all that isn't pure distilled Debian. It's FOSS, that's the whole point, surely, not to restrict ideas.
Live and let live, stick together and promote linux as a whole.

Here, here! Copying is the best form of flattery.

cchhrriiss121212 · 2013-06-08 10:17:54

excollier wrote:

Here here!

KrunchTime wrote:

Here, here!

Hear, hear.

KrunchTime · 2013-06-08 10:25:56

DebianJoe wrote:

If you want help on the Debian forums for Debian related questions, you have to word them correctly:
"Can you please help me get Debian to _____" <---Wrong Way
"Debian Sucks! It can't even ______. In Windows you just _________ and it works." <------Correct Way.

Based on some responses in this thread, an even better way...

"Can you please help me get Debian to _____" <---Wrong Way
"Debian Sucks! It can't even ______. In Ubuntu you just _________ and it works." <------Correct Way.

KrunchTime · 2013-06-08 11:14:02

cchhrriiss121212 wrote:

excollier wrote:
Here here!
KrunchTime wrote:
Here, here!
Hear, hear.

Thanks for the correction. Here's another link confirming your point...

http://www.unbecominglevity.com/2008/11 … here-here/

pvsage · 2013-06-08 12:13:20

excollier wrote:

The trolls at Debian should be proud of how "their" baby grows into myriad different variations, and just stop decrying all that isn't pure distilled Debian. It's FOSS, that's the whole point, surely, not to restrict ideas.
Live and let live, stick together and promote linux as a whole.

...and the Debian trolls' hardline stance is exactly what I was referring to when I wrote "Stallmanism".

hashbanger · 2013-06-08 13:39:45

excollier wrote:

Has the Debian forum (forums.debian.net) always been so hostile and arrogant? Do they actively seek to keep people away from Debian?

Have you ever been to the Dumbuntu forums? You'll love Debian's then.

intoCB · 2013-06-08 14:24:10

What I get from all this is that:
1. Ubuntu users get a hard time on the Debian forums (none of our business)
2. Debian users have a gripe, justified or otherwise, with Ubuntu (none of our business)
3. Debian forums are considered by some here not to be very friendly (a community polices itself and if we are not part of that community... it's none of our business)

So maybe we should just leave Debian and Ubuntu to work out their differences and let the Debian community police its own forum and decide whether or not it's compatible with its project goals and its users' needs/desires.

VastOne · 2013-06-08 14:43:11

^ This is why we have earned our reputation... IMO

These types of threads never end well, and this one has been good in keeping it civil. I am not sure how much more yardage there is to be gained on this play

anonymous · 2013-06-08 14:56:45

^ All in favor for closing this thread type "Aye!"

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