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#1826 2014-05-22 05:35:55

dot|not
#! Junkie
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2013-09-05
Posts: 371

Re: Ideas for Janice

cloverskull wrote:

Plus, this idea of not using a firewall...do you have any idea how easy it is to compromise a router or switch? smile

How does that matter? Man-in-the-Middle (or other nasty things) is possible with or without you running a firewall.

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#1827 2014-05-22 06:55:36

cloverskull
#! Junkie
Registered: 2013-10-26
Posts: 377

Re: Ideas for Janice

dot|not wrote:
cloverskull wrote:

Plus, this idea of not using a firewall...do you have any idea how easy it is to compromise a router or switch? smile

How does that matter? Man-in-the-Middle (or other nasty things) is possible with or without you running a firewall.

Yeah, true, I guess we should just throw out all of our ideas about security since someone somewhere can compromise whatever we do.

OR, we can make that more difficult for an attacker and protect ourselves as best we can.

smile

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#1828 2014-05-22 10:10:09

Bearded_Blunder
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-04-04
Posts: 262

Re: Ideas for Janice

There *is* a firewall, if you don't like it change it, if you want an extra program to make it easier to use instead of learning how to use it apt-get the program, in any group of 4 Linux users there will be 5 opinions on which is the best front end plus one user who wants a different base program...

Nobody suggested omitting iptables from the distro, so I skip configuring it, I'm behind a home built router that's a separate purpose built Linux firewall/router distro, with my wlan on a different network, so I'm comfortable with the risk I've chosen by not bothering.  If I take my almost never used laptop to another location, I'll bother then, but I'll bother to use iptables to do it.

Using what's there now has the advantage that you actually *think* about what security you need and set it, rather than just pushing a big
| Make me (hopefully) safe |
button with little or no thought about what it does, but that button is where easy front ends lead, then it's one more step to Windows firewall.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...

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#1829 2014-05-22 12:57:45

dot|not
#! Junkie
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2013-09-05
Posts: 371

Re: Ideas for Janice

// Edit: Pointless.

Last edited by dot|not (2014-05-22 13:10:05)

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#1830 2014-05-22 17:20:19

jalexander9
#! Member
From: USA
Registered: 2014-05-16
Posts: 86

Re: Ideas for Janice

Previous posts have been merely suggestions. The debate on merits of single packages and applications are welcomed, I presume?  smile
This can become a valuable learning experience - encouraging deeper research and collaboration!  wink No pain, no gain....


Intel Pentium 4 150 GB HDD 4 GB RAM

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#1831 2014-05-22 22:08:42

Bearded_Blunder
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-04-04
Posts: 262

Re: Ideas for Janice

jalexander9 wrote:

Previous posts have been merely suggestions. The debate on merits of single packages and applications are welcomed, I presume?  smile
This can become a valuable learning experience - encouraging deeper research and collaboration!  wink No pain, no gain....

It's all fair game according to post #1 Suggest away...
There'll still be 5 opinions for each 4 users, but it's the boss that will decide...
I looked at ufw (along with some alternatives) it doesn't look that much easier than iptables anyway
If the object is to make it easy for the mobile computing brigade maybe the graphical version
If the object is to learn Linux, then why learn ufw, why not learn iptables and be able to set up security on virtually any distro, since they nearly all use iptables whatever front end they put on it?
Just don't like half-measures my personal opinion..


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#1832 2014-05-22 22:43:59

Alad
Software Satan
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 1,512

Re: Ideas for Janice

Firewalls are nice but...

sudo netstat -tulpn
sudo aptitude purge <service>

Disable ipv6 while you're at it.

Last edited by Alad (2014-05-22 22:46:41)

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#1833 2014-05-22 23:40:09

Bearded_Blunder
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-04-04
Posts: 262

Re: Ideas for Janice

Alad wrote:

Firewalls are nice but...

sudo netstat -tulpn
sudo aptitude purge <service>

Disable ipv6 while you're at it.

Agreed, removing unused services beats hiding them behind a firewall, anything that isn't there can't be exploited by definition.
Not so worried by IPv6 my ISP doesn't support it, neither does my wireless access point (too old) and I'll notice anyone breaking in to plug in wired 8o


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#1834 2014-05-26 10:09:35

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Ideas for Janice

How about including the debian-handbook package (or even the full pdf of the Debian Administrators Handbook) & an entry in the openbox menu to browse it...
wink

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#1835 2014-05-26 10:54:09

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2012-03-22
Posts: 1,026
Website

Re: Ideas for Janice

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

How about including the debian-handbook package (or even the full pdf of the Debian Administrators Handbook) & an entry in the openbox menu to browse it...
wink

Why?


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#1836 2014-05-26 11:27:57

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Ideas for Janice

iMBeCil wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

How about including the debian-handbook package (or even the full pdf of the Debian Administrators Handbook) & an entry in the openbox menu to browse it...
wink

Why?

Because it would seem to be a reasonable addition to an updated Help & Information pipemenu, which at the moment is years out-of-date and isn't enabled in a default installation. ATM new users have only this forum and/or their own savvy to help them, and some don't even know the name of the window manager, never mind where to go to configure it.
Update and re-enable cb-help-pipemenu


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#1837 2014-05-26 12:25:51

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Ideas for Janice

iMBeCil wrote:

Why?

Because Knowledge Is Power big_smile

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#1838 2014-05-26 12:32:21

speedy_86
#! Member
Registered: 2014-02-27
Posts: 63

Re: Ideas for Janice

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
iMBeCil wrote:

Why?

Because Knowledge Is Power big_smile

And power corrupts...but I concur that this would be a good idea for anyone (I just downloaded it myself to put on my ereader and my iPad...).


Qui audet adipiscitur./Who dares, wins./Quien se atreve, gana./Wer wagt, gewinnt./Qui ose, gagne./Chi osa, vince.

Certainty of death, small chance of success, what are we waiting for?
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#1839 2014-05-26 14:00:13

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2012-03-22
Posts: 1,026
Website

Re: Ideas for Janice

^,^^,^^^: I don't think that the listed reasons are enough ...

I agree that the debian-handbook is very good source of information, and as such good stuff for (some) new users, but then there is plenty of stuff which are good for new users ... and, lo and behold, one ends up with, say, Ubuntu and Mint. Or XFCE and KDE. Not the way #! should go IMHO. But of course, maintainer will say final words about that ...


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#1840 2014-05-26 16:05:21

Bearded_Blunder
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-04-04
Posts: 262

Re: Ideas for Janice

I'm not sure that providing an information source results in Ubuntu, providing GUI tools for everything maybe, but not a guide book, giving people chance to read isn't the dumbing down approach.


Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall not be disappointed...

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#1841 2014-05-26 19:10:57

iMBeCil
WAAAT?
From: Edrychwch o'ch cwmpas
Registered: 2012-03-22
Posts: 1,026
Website

Re: Ideas for Janice

^To be precise, I was '(over)extending' damo's argument:

ATM new users have only this forum and/or their own savvy to help them, and some don't even know the name of the window manager, never mind where to go to configure it.

But, never mind ... No harm done. Let's go back on topic.

(What I wanted to point out (once more) is that it would be much more helpful to see not only the request, but also the argument for that request. Often, it is too easy to state an opinion, but much more difficult to argument it correctly.)


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#1842 2014-05-26 19:14:00

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: Ideas for Janice

iMBeCil wrote:

...snipped
(What I wanted to point out (once more) is that it would be much more helpful to see not only the request, but also the argument for that request. Often, it is too easy to state an opinion, but much more difficult to argument it correctly.)

+1
Fair point


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#1843 2014-05-26 20:01:57

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Ideas for Janice

iMBeCil wrote:

What I wanted to point out (once more) is that it would be much more helpful to see not only the request, but also the argument for that request. Often, it is too easy to state an opinion, but much more difficult to argument it correctly.

Fair enough, my reply was too glib...
I would argue that the debian administrators handbook is an indispensible guide for all users (whether newbies or not) to understand better the workings of their system. It would relieve the burden of support from the forums, especially in relatively trivial matters such as package management & system updates/upgrades. At the moment, the resources of a #! user are limited to the forums & auntie duckduck: what happens when their internet connection fails? The inclusion of a pdf version of the handbook would amount to ~30MB of extra data in the DVD/USB and a trivial entry in the openbox menu --- a small outlay with a generous return wink

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#1844 2014-05-26 21:20:37

anonymous
The Mystery Member
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,419

Re: Ideas for Janice

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I would argue that the debian administrators handbook is an indispensible guide for all users (whether newbies or not) to understand better the workings of their system. It would relieve the burden of support from the forums, especially in relatively trivial matters such as package management & system updates/upgrades.

But would people actually read it or just skip straight to posting on a forum? wink

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#1845 2014-05-26 21:33:47

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: Ideas for Janice

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I would argue that the debian administrators handbook is an indispensible guide for all users (whether newbies or not) to understand better the workings of their system. . . . The inclusion of a pdf version of the handbook would amount to ~30MB of extra data in the DVD/USB and a trivial entry in the openbox menu --- a small outlay with a generous return wink

I would agree with Head_on_a_Stick on this. However, whether people would actually read it is another thing. But whether they read it or not, it's there if someone is looking for help and want to try to do it on their own.


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#1846 2014-05-26 21:48:32

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Ideas for Janice

anonymous wrote:

But would people actually read it or just skip straight to posting on a forum? wink

BINGO!  My first thought as well.  I think maybe in the cb-welcome it would be a great addition.

Those that know what it is/represents and will read it will get it.

New users to Linux that like to read will get it, new users that don't like reading or don't know have the opportunity to get it easily.

Mind you is a simple apt-get away.  big_smile

Last edited by Sector11 (2014-05-26 21:49:03)


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#1847 2014-05-26 21:52:11

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: Ideas for Janice

Sector11 wrote:

Mind you is a simple apt-get away.  big_smile

That's how I got it. big_smile


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#1848 2014-05-26 22:18:19

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Ideas for Janice

Sector11 wrote:

Mind you is a simple apt-get away.  big_smile

...if you know it even exists hmm

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#1849 2014-05-26 22:26:44

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: Ideas for Janice

Well, I hope making the link in a sticky in Off Topic will help.  wink


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#1850 2014-05-26 22:38:59

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Ideas for Janice

^ yes indeed, good work @Icafiero big_smile

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