Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

dura · 2012-11-14 17:49:45

I noticed the other day that the semi-famous (within these forums anyway) #! disclaimer that used to be blazoned on the download page has been removed since the new forum and website design. I know some folk liked the disclaimer. For me, it was one of the reasons that I never considered using #! as my main system on my production machine. I thought that though it added to excitement, it also suggested, wrongly in hindsight, that #! lives up to its name and is not suitable for 'normal users'.

Removing it I think is perhaps a good idea; at least if gaining greater popularity amongst normal users is a goal corenominal identifies.

#! is far more stable than Mint or ubuntu in my experience, more so than windows too. Though I've never owned a mac, I have used them, and have experienced freezes on them too. Only one on #! in the last 2 months, and that I expect is likely due to grub modifications I have made personally, rather than the system itself.

Just a passing comment, but it would be interesting what others think of this, and perhaps some reasons behind the change from the big boss man himself.

dura

antiv0rtex · 2012-11-15 04:06:50

I agree entirely with the removal of the disclaimer.

Any distribution will crash/fail sometimes; #! is much more stable than many other distributions which I have tried in the past, so it never made sense to me that the possibility of its "CruchBanging" was highlighted - especially when other less stability-focused systems do not even mention the possibility of a glitch.

The disclaimer did deter me from trying #! on a production system for a while, but after I had spent some time with the community I realized that I should just disregard the disclaimer entirely

Last edited by antiv0rtex (2012-11-15 04:07:17)

joek · 2012-11-15 10:44:03

I loved the disclaimer. I know many people have said on these fora and elsewhere that it potentially scares people away, but my experience was the exact opposite: the disclaimer was the thing which convinced me to try #! instead of another lightweight distribution when I first used it. I thought that the devs having that sense of humour was probably an indication of good things, and I liked the playful, hackerly mentality which it spoke of.
A less charitable part of me thinks, to be slightly elitist for a second, that the disclaimer had the bonus effect of making the people to whom the #! mentality would not work with avoid the distribution. The community we have here is fantastic, and I worry that the more mainstream #! becomes, the more ubuntu-like it will try to become. I trust Corenomial to stick to the #! philosophy as it is, but I wouldn't want the #! community to be destroyed by an influx of point-and-click people who have no interest in learning. (People inexperienced with linux but willing to learn I actively *want* in the community, on the other hand, and I suspect that the disclaimer would attract those types of people.)

rebornmechanics · 2012-11-15 11:44:14

Being new to #! I first came across said disclaimer on merchandise from the shop.
The supposed instability of #! has since mystified me as I don't see what could make it less stable than the Debian branch it's based off. In fact the basic installation leaves significantly less room for error and general botching than trying to build a similar system by hand (speaking from experience here).
Such a disclaimer would be more fitting for Ubuntu or Mint as they come with weird hacks modifying established desktops (or their components) which in my book raises the chance for total breakage. #! packages its customizations quite neatly so that in theory you could go from wheezy to waldorf and back by changing some apt lines and installing/removing the respective packages.

Last edited by rebornmechanics (2012-11-15 11:45:13)

dura · 2012-11-15 12:52:04

Very interesting responses. I think the disclaimer was very important, and can understand the contrasting responses from R3nci and joek. It is interesting, because as joek suggests, having such a disclaimer, though expressing a responsibility and humanity to the distro, would not be the sort of thing that a distro aimed at mainstream popularity (such as Mint or Umbongo) for instance would use.

Last edited by dura (2012-11-15 13:25:41)

scket · 2012-11-15 13:24:18

I think Corenominal said he put that disclaimer up so he could sleep at night!

I wonder how he's sleeping now?

hinto · 2012-11-15 13:50:48

Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 15 wrote:

"They had mocked him through his misery and remorse, mocked him with how hideous a note of cynical derision! Fiendishly laughing, they had insisted on the low squalor, the nauseous ugliness of the nightmare. Now, suddenly, they trumpeted a call to arms. 'O brave new world!' Miranda was proclaiming the possibility of loveliness, the possibility of transforming even the nightmare into something fine and noble. 'O brave new world!' It was a challenge, a command."

intoCB · 2012-11-15 15:46:13

The disclaimer for me has meant that I haven't expected things to be perfect and have actually been pleasantly surprised.

Ubuntu, which is great - don't get me wrong - always leaves you with a feeling of being somehow let down, that the product doesn't quite live up to its sales pitch.

VastOne · 2012-11-15 16:18:12

@hinto Perfect!

I am sure that whatever purpose the disclaimer initially served is now a completed task.

bobobex · 2012-11-15 17:14:34

Ha Ha, I don't think that he has even noticed that the disclaimer is missing from his newly designed Download page!

Oops, I'll remind him later and direct him here onto this thread for your comments.

omns · 2012-11-15 17:18:38

My money is on it returning ]:D

dura · 2012-11-15 17:30:40

Very interesting to hear differing viewpoints on the subject. Would be great to hear what corenominal has to say as well

cchhrriiss121212 · 2012-11-15 17:55:52

The disclaimer was always tongue in cheek wasn't it?

I like it personally, it's rare to see a piece of software/tech/distro that does not try to sell itself as mind blowingly brilliant. The advantage of a small project like this is there are no marketeers to screw things up.

hinto · 2012-11-15 18:10:02

Oracle/Sun on Java wrote:

The software product may contain support for programs written in Java. Java technology is not fault tolerant and is not designed, manufactured, or intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines , or weapon systems, in which the failure of Java technology could lead directly to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage.

-H

Last edited by hinto (2012-11-15 18:10:13)

dura · 2012-11-15 18:12:15

^ oh poo, I was about to use java in my nuclear power station. Darn it

lcafiero · 2012-11-15 18:56:44

When I first started using CrunchBang over a year ago and blogged about it on "Larry the Free Software Guy," I remember saying something to the effect that I thought the disclaimer was something the attorneys made corenominal include on the site. But personally I always thought of it as a challenge -- "Oh yeah? I'll see if this makes my hardware go 'crunch, bang' " -- but the distro has always been rock solid. Its stability is gaining recognition in Linux circles, and the disclaimer is sort of an in-joke among those who use it. That said, I think we should keep it.

bobobex · 2012-11-15 19:09:20

cchhrriiss121212 wrote:

The disclaimer was always tongue in cheek wasn't it?
I like it personally, it's rare to see a piece of software/tech/distro that does not try to sell itself as mind blowingly brilliant. The advantage of a small project like this is there are no marketeers to screw things up.

Yes, the disclaimer was tongue in cheek. especially when you consider that originally this distribution was only ever intended to be used by Philip (and maybe me!)

VastOne · 2012-11-15 19:12:59

^ The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray...

Something can still get messed up, or get better with age!

hinto · 2012-11-15 19:21:34

-Rich Cook wrote:

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning

VastOne · 2012-11-15 19:23:38

^ I need access to your quote book hinto!

Another classic.

hinto · 2012-11-15 19:30:01

^ I went to a Liberal Arts college and had to take humanities so I could learn to talk at dinner parties.
I got a BS in Math, and I write statistics software, so I don't get invited to dinner parties
-H

brontosaurusrex · 2012-11-15 19:48:35

That disclaimer must stay, bring it back! at least two purposes;

a. starters are scared away, but they remember the threat well, so they will eventually return (at the point of realization that this is actually a linux disclaimer perhaps)
b. not-so-starters are happier when things do get broke; "i should listen to the disclaimer"

so basically it was perfect.

raoulduke · 2012-11-16 00:51:07

FWIW, I've tried at least a dozen various distros on (mainly) archaic/antique hardware, and the only other one that didn't crash was Lubuntu (on a P3 laptop). Lack of support for that drove me to use #! as my main install on all my hardware, and I've yet to see it crash in around 2 years of constant (albeit fairly light) use. I cannot honestly see how anyone using non-experimental releases could experience 'system failure'.

Having said that, it's definitely a distro for people who don't mind getting their hands dirty - all the small problems I've encountered have been solved using the CLI, which is the way I like it. It's not for people who do everything by clicking on icons, and I guess that whole approach needs to be projected in a slightly abstract way. Just like the old disclaimer did (kind of)

Last edited by raoulduke (2012-11-16 00:53:26)

VastOne · 2012-11-16 00:59:24

^ Meh, it's Debian, who would expect less?

Or more for that matter should anyone choose shiny and icons, CrunchBang is that kind of a base.

Good discussion points...

gutterslob · 2012-11-16 09:54:53

I propose a new disclaimer, preferably one about SLIM eating your music collection.

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#1 2012-11-14 17:49:45

Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#2 2012-11-15 04:06:50

Re: Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#3 2012-11-15 10:44:03

Re: Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#4 2012-11-15 11:44:14

Re: Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#5 2012-11-15 12:52:04

Re: Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#6 2012-11-15 13:24:18

Re: Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#7 2012-11-15 13:50:48

Re: Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#8 2012-11-15 15:46:13

Re: Crunchbang Disclaimer Gone: A New Beginning?

#9 2012-11-15 16:18:12

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#10 2012-11-15 17:14:34

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#11 2012-11-15 17:18:38

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#12 2012-11-15 17:30:40

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#13 2012-11-15 17:55:52

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#14 2012-11-15 18:10:02

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#15 2012-11-15 18:12:15

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#16 2012-11-15 18:56:44

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#17 2012-11-15 19:09:20

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#18 2012-11-15 19:12:59

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#19 2012-11-15 19:21:34

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#20 2012-11-15 19:23:38

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#21 2012-11-15 19:30:01

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#22 2012-11-15 19:48:35

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#23 2012-11-16 00:51:07

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#24 2012-11-16 00:59:24

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#25 2012-11-16 09:54:53

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