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#26 2011-08-04 23:46:08

cbdxs
#! Die Hard
From: Capital Wasteland
Registered: 2011-08-03
Posts: 1,898

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

^How non-sequitur of you.


叫我差不多先生。

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Be excellent to each other!

#27 2011-08-05 00:40:35

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

cbdxs wrote:

^How non-sequitur of you.

Yes I was wasn't I  lol

However I would say a Linux Distro named CrunchBang that never goes CRUNCH BANG on it's own would be "non sequitur" as well.

Non sequitur (logic), a logical fallacy where a stated conclusion is not supported by its premise.


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#28 2011-08-05 02:59:50

cbdxs
#! Die Hard
From: Capital Wasteland
Registered: 2011-08-03
Posts: 1,898

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

That is true Sector11 haha and how nice of you to provide a definition.


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#29 2011-08-05 16:48:43

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

cbdxs wrote:

That is true Sector11 haha and how nice of you to provide a definition.

That's because I though you meant:

Non sequitur (literary device), an irrelevant, often humorous comment to a preceding topic or statement.

and I didn't want to confuse the issue.  big_smile

Mud would be clearer right?


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#30 2011-08-05 17:52:46

cbdxs
#! Die Hard
From: Capital Wasteland
Registered: 2011-08-03
Posts: 1,898

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

There is treachery afoot! Hey you changed the meaning of non sequitur lol.


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#31 2011-08-05 20:04:30

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

cbdxs wrote:

There is treachery afoot! Hey you changed the meaning of non sequitur lol.

Who me?  I changed nothing! big_smile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur

So with all this talk about The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer, I have a feeling the "Disclaimer" doesn't know if it's coming or going!

Which is why my #! went CRUNCH BANG this morning.  I had backports turned on and yesterday it installed "linux-image-2.6.39-bpo.2-amd64".  This morning when I fired up: CRUNCH BANG!!!!! Down went X!  using the old image: linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 I recovered and deleted the bad image - changing the grub list automatically - and rebooted so now I'm here to talk "non sequitur" stuff.  lol

I'll be your Vice, OK!

Last edited by Sector11 (2011-08-05 20:06:10)


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#32 2011-08-05 21:04:00

cbdxs
#! Die Hard
From: Capital Wasteland
Registered: 2011-08-03
Posts: 1,898

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqyixwqiCag

It's fun keeping a disclaimer post alive lol


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#33 2011-08-16 20:18:44

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

Just another 2 cents on the disclaimer.

For real, would think changing it is a good idea. If #! wants more people using this distro. Folks, esp folks migrating from winblows take that kind of thing really seriously. Only been using linux for a couple months myself and crunchbang was one of the distro's I'd gotten around to looking over. That disclaimer did scare me off for awhile. Know other people ( well have seen other nix newbs in forums ) mention the same thing too.

Crunchbang isn't any more likely to make a persons PC go crunch or bang than other other nix distro. Way less than several of em out there. I might have never even bothered trying crunchbang again and that disclaimer would've been the main reason why. When new people are searching for a linux distro to try and they see that. Odds are they'll go elsewhere and may not ever bother coming back. Missed opportunity for them. Cause CB's one of the my favorite nix distro's now, missed opportunity for #! to attract another user too though.

Glad I doubled back ... cause this distro is sweet linuxy goodness. Tried archbang for awhile too. Which was ok, but doesn't hold a candle to the real uncut #!, lol. Was another reason I almost skipped over trying this distro. Thought archbang and crunchbang were supposed to be more or less the same. At least really similar to each other. That is not the case, imo. Archbang comes up way short compared.

Couple other unsolicited ( probably uncared for suggestions on promotion.)

Possible to add a regular iso download option ? Instead of only bittorrent ? Think it would help, also seen people who tried to download crunchbang's iso and were befuddled by what bittorrent even was/is. Or at least add a link to utorrent etc or information about what bittorrent is and some basic hows, whys kinda deal ?

Last but not least, put up some comments about using xfce being more friendly to people new to linux. Think the openbox version of #! is da chit. But believe many folks new to linux won't appreciate how good it is until they've gotten their feet wet a bit. Awesome nix distro to the dev here ... btw. Thanks for the skill, time and care you put into making a kickbutt linux distro.

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2011-08-16 20:33:22)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#34 2011-08-16 20:53:12

Awebb
The Singularity
Registered: 2009-07-23
Posts: 2,812

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

It wouldn't be sane changing the disclaimer and it wouldn't be fair to those users, who really need a stable operating system. Crunchbang can be as stable as you want it to be, but unless the developer "team" - consisting of a single man with other things to do - finds a way to do a thorough quality assurance on the product, the disclaimer should stay the way it is. Imagine a company relying on #!, because the new disclaimer says it's fine, and *CRUNCH* a bug in Plymouth makes the file system driver segfault and *BANG* all the data is gone.

Archbang, by the way, was born in this forum. Since the original #! setup was centered around Openbox+Conky+{$FANCY_PANEL_BEFORE_TINT2}, it was a natural thing to try something like this on Arch Linux. Someone finally took some spare time and made a Distrolet. Cownose, the cat, most Archbangers I know are now either Crunchbangers again, migrated to a real Arch setup or lurk somewhere else. It's sad that it turned into a one-way-ticket project. The most notable thing about Archbang is the link to the Arch Linux Forums under it's own Community section. It misguides Linux noobs trying Archbang to the fourteenth plain of torment™, which they usually leave soon after with empty hands.


I'm so meta, even this acronym

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#35 2011-08-16 21:26:52

omns
#! wanderer
From: ~/
Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 5,131

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

CBizgreat! wrote:

If #! wants more people using this distro.

I'd recommend the 'What is CrunchBang?' link in my signature smile

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#36 2011-08-16 21:30:20

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

Appreciate that Awebb, but there are more politically correct ways to say the same thing. W/o scaring people off. Most nix distro's have some type of disclaimer and attempt at legalese to limit liability. Again .. though, it's less controversial sounding in the way they phrase it. With 323 actively developed distro listed on distrowatch ... There's no shortage of linux in the world. Even getting someone's attention to the point that they'll be looking over a particular distro's homepage is an accomplishment ( and opportunity ). Must mean that distro amassed enough good PR or credit to at least get to the point where it's being evaluated for use or taken into consideration.

Think after the no doubt tons of time, effort and work the guy behind #! has put into it. Kind of silly to scare people off with a disclaimer that's needlessly intimidating to people. ESP anyone new to linux, which what is it now, 90% of the PC market still dominated by M$ ? So safe to say the majority of people looking over #! will likely be folks migrating from winblows. Just posted the comments I made above to let the dev behind all this know. People are taking that stuff seriously. May be witty and said tongue in cheek. People new to linux aren't taking it that way.

#! for business applications ? That isn't happening ... At least in my opinion it's not/won't. People with production applications and environments in mind aren't considering a distro like Crunchbang. Too many better publicized nix distro's in the world meant for enterprise class and institutional applications. Think this distro is wayyyyy more appropriate for personal computing and will likely never be a candidate for mass scale business applications. Just 2 cents on it.

Arch ? Probably good stuff ... Archbang ? Didn't like it myself. Was ok, worked well enough. Just didn't think it was much to speak of. Thought it came up way lacking compared to the real deal, now that I've actually tried #! in all it's nixy glory. big_smile Just in general, seems like arch projects some big headed, elitest image. Oooooo, I use ARCH !!! Look at me, lol. Guessing that distro will never be more than a drop in the ocean of gnu/nix either. Congratulations you use arch linux. You've spent 12,000hrs setting up stuff the rest of us downloaded a linux distro iso for and had working out of the box, lol.

PS, Yep omns ... good as any, better than a bunch that could be used for sure, shrugs. Not my choice to make. Just giving feedback on the disclaimer and babbling pointlessly. Something I tend to do often, lol.

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2011-08-19 21:34:19)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#37 2011-08-16 21:33:34

omns
#! wanderer
From: ~/
Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 5,131

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

CBizgreat! wrote:

Just posted the comments I made above to let the dev behind all this know. People are taking that stuff seriously. May be witty and said tongue in cheek. People new to linux aren't taking it that way.

Again, please read the 'what is CrunchBang?' link in my signature smile

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#38 2011-08-16 21:34:24

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,984

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

Proof that #! can, indeed, make your computer go "Crunch! Bang!"

http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … -breaks-x/
http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … s-weather/

I like the disclaimer and think it should stay as-is. smile


/hugged

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#39 2011-08-16 21:36:35

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

Yep, noticed after I'd posted and did read it.

The Dev behind the distro does the work and if he's not concerned with #!'s popularity or increasing the userbase for it. Guess ... that's all that really matters. None of my bizness really. Just offered the feedback cause remembered the effect that disclaimer had on me and it's been mentioned by others who looked #! over. Not the end of the world either way eh.

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2011-08-16 22:13:58)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#40 2011-08-16 21:40:18

jeffreyC
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2010-09-02
Posts: 596

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

Truth to tell the disclaimer is what attracted me to CrunchBang.
I like the idea of a developer who says that it may not work, rather than one who acts like it is perfect.


There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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#41 2011-08-16 21:59:40

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

lol ... one more, then will butt out. What else are the majority of net forums for if not babbling n opinions ?

They all say it might not work. ie: X linux is free software, distributed under the GPL ( Gnu public license ). It's offered without express or implied warranty ... etc.

Same thing as may make your computer go CRUNCH ... BANG !!! Only a ton less intimidating and confidence inspiring, lol. Goes without saying eh. Going out of the way to say hey, this could screw your computer all up. Is obviously not something the vast majority of PC users of the world will like or be attracted by. big_smile

Appreciate what the guy behind #! has done. Personal opinion, distro's like this one show what even 1 skilled software developer can do with the mountains of opensource software freely floating around. Oh well ... and yet, ya google linux and ubuntu's homepage comes up ? Bloated, often buggy, canonical's weird tendencies ... Unity this ... reversing windows controls for no apparent reason, lol ... strange world.

End pointless babbling:

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2011-08-16 22:00:35)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#42 2011-08-16 22:33:49

Awebb
The Singularity
Registered: 2009-07-23
Posts: 2,812

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

Meh, political correctness is nothing you need worry about when talking about Linux, Opensource, F(L)OSS (like in dental*). Oh, excuse me, holy RMS, of course I meant WILDEBEAST/Linux! Really… I don't see a reason to streamline the "facts", just to hold hands for possible insecure users. There is no benefit for a Linux distro, if masses of inexperienced new users, who do not really contribute and use up resources instead, flood the forums. If they're ready, they will come. Browse the forums a little more, you will find out that most active crunchbangers are do-it-yourself-types who are not afraid of testing half-broken software and like solving riddles. Most of them either have not enough time or knowledge to maintain a more manual OS, like Gentoo, Slackware or Arch, but, given the circumstances, every one of them would grow into a more self-sustaining role.

If you say, that the disclaimer has direct impact on the target audience, then I say that's one more reason to keep it that way. There is enough holding hands on the technology market, that's why we all look down so easily on them bad bad Windows users in the first place. They traded their freedom for 'security', wrapped in written words, coming with a free finger to point at someone else as soon as something goes wrong.

Excuse me, but politically correctly wrapping a blunt fact into soft words just to ease the sensitive souls of a few anxious neophytes, betrays the very foundation of our wonderful belief. Oh. Wrong speech *browses speechfolder*


I'm so meta, even this acronym

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#43 2011-08-16 22:49:27

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

The disclaimer is awesome. It sums up the vibe around #! perfectly. No need to entice new users to the distro with sweet promises, you're only likely to get a lot of "PLEASE HELP" posts and false expectations. Gawd, if another Linux forum were to disintegrate into "Why I'm going back to Windows" threads, I'd probably just install BSD.

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#44 2011-08-16 23:26:04

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

lol ... votes for Awebb !! I was stirred and moved, even if it was the wrong speech ! D:

Dunno ... am not the worlds foremost FOSS expert. Errrr, don't tell anybody ... but not the worlds leading anything expert. ): Will deny it though ... and like to tell everybody I know everything.

I don't look down on winblows users, am one. Or feel holier than thou/they. Microsoft made the choice for most of them anyway. Security and windows ? Errrr ... not so much, lol. Or at least the stats and 404 billion viruses and malcode that targets windows software seems to indicate using M$ products isn't an act of security. big_smile

It's easy to say there's no agenda. But facts seem to say otherwise. What's the point of coming out with an xfce ( full DE ) version of #! if the guy behind it doesn't want to build up the userbase ? Don't blame him either ... If he devotes 5,000hrs of his time and effort to maintain a nix distro of course he wants more people to use it. That 5,000hrs is the same whether 200, 200,000 or 2 million people use his creation. Don't think it's about "hand holding". It's about getting some well deserved recognition for an achievement or all the time, effort and energy someone devoted. Hopefully at some point, maybe even some $ for their efforts.

I mean if Bill farkin, nerdy sleazebag Gates can stack up 65 billion spitting out crapware to the masses. Then all the gnu/nix devs who make great software are surely entitled to something for their time and effort ... right ?

Tis no skin off my nose either way. Just like CB, think it's great linux and wouldn't hurt my feelings to see it hit the headlines. If the guy behind it so desires anyway. I know it's his toy, I'm just allowed to play with it, shrugs. Did I mention I babble a lot and often have ignorant opinions to share with anyone willing to listen ?

big_smile

GIVE DA GIFT OF CRUNCHBANG !


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#45 2011-08-16 23:39:32

anonymous
The Mystery Member
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,419

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

CBizgreat! wrote:

If he devotes 5,000hrs of his time and effort to maintain a nix distro of course he wants more people to use it.

Not exactly:

corenominal wrote:
benj1 wrote:
corenominal wrote:

For what it is worth, I have no real idea how many people are using it, and I think I would like to keep it that way. big_smile

because you think the count will be extraordinarily high, or embarrassingly low ?

Because if I knew how many actual users there were, I probably would not sleep overly well. CrunchBang was never really supposed to be anything other than a personal project. I think it is great that other people enjoy using it, but it still makes me feel nervous to think that they actually do. neutral

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#46 2011-08-16 23:44:05

omns
#! wanderer
From: ~/
Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 5,131

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

CBizgreat! wrote:

It's easy to say there's no agenda. But facts seem to say otherwise. What's the point of coming out with an xfce ( full DE ) version of #! if the guy behind it doesn't want to build up the userbase ? Don't blame him either ... If he devotes 5,000hrs of his time and effort to maintain a nix distro of course he wants more people to use it. That 5,000hrs is the same whether 200, 200,000 or 2 million people use his creation. Don't think it's about "hand holding". It's about getting some well deserved recognition for an achievement or all the time, effort and energy someone devoted. Hopefully at some point, maybe even some $ for their efforts.

You need to have a look around the forums some more, read corenominal's posts and see the type of person he is. Philip uses both Openbox and Xfce on different machines. That's the only reason there is two versions. Currently he's back on Xfce but recently he was quite fixated with Ubuntu's Unity. Like many of us he moves around checking out things and keeping up to date with what's happening in the Linux world. Out of that comes CrunchBang. Nothing more or less and no hidden agenda.

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#47 2011-08-16 23:53:05

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,984

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

CBizgreat! wrote:

What's the point of coming out with an xfce ( full DE ) version of #! if the guy behind it doesn't want to build up the userbase ?

Actually I think it is the exact opposite; Corenominal prefers Xfce but keeps developing the Openbox version for the benefit of people like me. smile

CrunchBang has had an Xfce desktop since at least 2008 when I started using it.


/hugged

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#48 2011-08-17 00:38:09

sunfizz98
Carbonated Orange Juice
From: su terminal
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,876
Website

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

I thought the disclaimer was its mission statement.  Overall, I don't think crunchbang needs to be more popularized, since word of mouth travels faster than a disclaimer and this forum seems to be getting a steady stream of new users on a weekly basis (excluding bots).

@El Koraco - post 43
Yes, you are correct.

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#49 2011-08-17 01:19:15

jeffreyC
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2010-09-02
Posts: 596

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

If you are not the sort of person who will say "If it breaks I will just fix it" then the disclaimer is a good thing, as it will keep you moving on.


There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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Help fund CrunchBang, donate to the project!

#50 2011-09-12 10:35:08

rich
#! Junkie
From: barcelona
Registered: 2009-01-26
Posts: 416
Website

Re: The CrunchBang Linux Disclaimer

jeffreyC wrote:

If you are not the sort of person who will say "If it breaks I will just fix it" then the disclaimer is a good thing, as it will keep you moving on.

I agree. It also brings out the curiosity in people, as well as a typical-linux-user trait of wanting to see if it really-will-break........ so that we can tinker and fix it smile

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