I have neither the knowledge nor the experience of most of you, but I would like to make a comment about this debate.
Originally I dist-upgraded to Jessie, and it continued to use the old init system... I could tell just because there were no systemd messages at boot.
I then did a clean netinstall of jessie, following advice from johnraff's wally cheat sheet. I then installed all the programmes I normally use...
The question for me is whether I noticed any difference in the way the machine runs, and the answer is yes:
Not only are there what almost seem to be endless systemd error messages at boot, but the whole work process seems slower
Prior speed starting lyx or libreoffice has now slowed to an almost Windows crawl. I mean simply that it takes lyx, which is what I use most, almost 10 seconds to start. (same computer on Waldorf: under 1 second.) Once it has started once, it is undera second again if closed and restarted. Just like windows, bless'em
I don't know if this is due to systemd issues, but.... I already have decided to go with Devuan when they make their first release.
To be init agnostic, therefore, seems to me to be a very good idea, as I will bunsenify it, and I can imagine many other people doing something similar with their chosen debian spin
As I said, this is a view based on the experience of using the two different init systems, not based on knowledge of programming or of either init system. Perhaps the differences I am noticing are not a result of systemd dependencies, but the change sure was sudden, and of a type I have not previously noticed with debian or #!
In any event, I think a lot of people will make decisions like this based on experience rather than knowledge, and for the sake of all of us non-programmers (etc), init agnosticism seems like a good idea. (It isn't a matter of the less knowledge the less we do, but the bigger mistakes we make. )
gnome-search-tool locked my system up, and required killing after about twenty minutes, with no results shown
On jessie? (pretty useless report actually ...)
Yes, it was a pretty useless report... that's because I didn't have much to say. I should have started it from a terminal and thus be able to tell you what was going on, unfortunately I didn't, and have now uninstalled it as it provided nothing I cannot get from the command line, and does not provide "in file" searching as I thought it did. (My error in reading the help file.)
It was on jessie, and I assume it is a bug which will get sorted out. I, again, didn't check that out, partly because I don't know where to look for bug reports, but mostly because I'll use cli for that type of search, and recoll for in document searching.
In any event, apologies for the report. It is a long time since I have done anything like this (almost ten years), and I genuinely have forgotten much of the absolute basics. I will try and provide better reports should I do any more posts of this type.
gnome-search-tool locked my system up, and required killing after about twenty minutes, with no results shown, when I was looking for text within a document. (one of the available options for a search). And yes, it didn't want to play nice with thunar or pcmanfm.
With simple file names it was quick, but that's using the locate database for a simple search. Bluntly, cli is just as easy (perhaps easier), especially if one is going to use the available search options through locate and/or find.
The only tool I have used which gives quick access to searches for text within a document, which is what I need, is recoll, once the indexing has been done. (It uses its own database, not locate). I'll be honest and say that I haven't looked to see if recoll can integrate into a file manager, but this is not of importance to me, which is why I haven't looked.
I have read up on tracker, and I'm not sure I want to go there, especially after tknomanzr's comments.
@johnraff I must have had the relevant kde libraries installed also. pity, really, as that means it is not as small as I thought.
@damo Yes, searching inside documents is very beneficial, if you need to do that, as I frequently have to.
Not going to debate the use of variosu tools, for the following reasons:
I use locate quite a lot myself (will now try mlocate also), but that's because there was nothing much around apart from locate and find when I first started using linux in 1999 or thereabouts.
A tool such as recoll (yes, google on a desktop because it searches within files also) is very useful for, e.g., finding a specific phrase or name in a collection of documents. (I do this a lot, when I have not noted a reference I need for my writing and need to find it without reading dozens of pdfs.)
Perhaps more importantly, there are many people who will use linux without wanting to use the cli tools. Hence, I think there is a place for both. recoll is smallish, efficient at what it does, and seems to me to work better than catfish. recoll does its own indexing, either continuously or as a cron job, and I merely think it will fill a need for many. (BTW, I have it configured only to index ~/, I use locate for any / searches)
I have not been happy with catfish for ages, and the latest version is not an improvement, even if I allow for the resolution of various little bugs.
If those who are working on bunsen are planning to provide programmes (either by post-install script or as a part of an iso), might I suggest recoll as teh default tool?
I have been playing with it lately, and 'tis really very good.
As an aside: Thank you to all those involved in getting bunsen going. I have no relevant skills, or I would be helping you.
PS What about damo's icy black theme as an already installed theme? Bloody brilliant... use it all the time.
re ASUS laptops... it depends on the version you have. disabling secure boot, enabling CSM and disabling fast boot, or whatever they call it, is easily done by going into settings on my ASUS. Mind you, firmware upgrades are another thing altogether... wouldn't go near them after past experiences.
It's interesting to hear that 8.1 has made it difficult to dual boot. I ended up doing it by installing opensuse 14... was perfect, and enabled booting into #!... I hadn't been able to sort out all the instructions for #! uefi... But I have no use for opensuse, so the sooner it is gone, the sooner it is... gone!
I have pitiful internet, but will try the latest debian net install with non-free soon... I need the non-free drivers for my wireless set up. Mind you, it's just taken me a week to sort out my LaTeX installation, which was well borked by upgrading Waldorf to Jessie... mayabe I should sit pretty for a while and get some work done before trying something new.
Having said that, Openbox is no longer in active development so we probably won't be doing this in ten years' time. Why not simply mug a pensioner now and treat yourself to a Macbook Pro? Let's face it, if CrunchBang is Philip's desktop then OS X is its most likely spiritual successor.
What about Fluxbox? It is still in active development--- latest release 1.3.7 February 2015.
I haven't used Fluxbox for a while, until very recently, and am now running the Jessie version (with lxde toolbar, strangely enough) and I am finding it every bit as good as openbox, and a little easier to configure (for me, at least), though there are still a few things I haven't worked out. It also groups windows, of course, which was why I used it in the first place.
Also, cb-wmhacks, cb-conky, compositing, and so forth, work quite effectively in it.
Also... pensioners rarely have enough money to make a mugging worth while. I know I don't!
Personally, I have to comment, that this seems a little silly.
In so many ways the name doesn't matter... Call it:
the important work is the work on the configs/packages/et cetera
I say this as someone who simply doesn't know how to do the work that Philip and now others are doing, and I think there are many like me who don't care what it is called as long as it runs beautifully.
Anyway, that was a mere 0.1 cents worth
@spacex I have to agree with you.
I have been using crunchbang since statler, with nary a problem (except those caused by myself by running a mixed system. Not Philip's fault.)
It's fantastic to see something like BunsenLabs getting going, but Waldorf Jessie is going to be on my machine for a long time yet. Long enough to find Wally and get the Bunsen burning brightly!
Ah well, I have been trying to ignore this since I saw Philip's post on facebook a little while ago. Time to get my head out of the sand.
I started playing with linux in 1999 or 2000 (memory failing), but Crunchbang was the distro that provided everything I needed and, like so man others, gave me so little trouble that I rarely came to the forums.
Brilliant distro, thank you for every second you put into making it the best linux experience I have ever had.
Damn, I was ignoring the news because I knew it would upset me to say anything. Tears in my eyes.
Have the best time in all of your new projects, and life generally.