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#1 2012-05-06 00:41:48

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,015
Website

CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

i've not used it yet, just read about it a little...

... it seems like one of those little-known gems.

have a read for yourself.

http://common-lisp.net/project/clfswm/
[edit ps, check out the animations as tutorials!!!]

next time i drop out to the login manager, it's definately being given a whirl.

(already installed it after my mass installation of all the wms weeks back, just hadn't gotten around to it yet...  i dont think a day is enough to get to know a wm.)

anyone else use it?  or are now interested in giving it a whirl after reading about it?
here's a post with some info that may be of help getting it up and running.

Last edited by Digit (2012-06-27 23:44:39)


~ think ~

without a shot fired
quote of the mo: ""... i realised it's simpler to make a statue to someone who you believe embodies all your better qualities, than it is to actually improve yourself" ... "so i have decided to go away. i will return when i have found a way to destroy this, while keeping the message intact"  -G'Kar

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Be excellent to each other!

#2 2012-06-03 00:40:33

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,015
Website

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

http://trac.common-lisp.net/clfswm/

getting it running had a couple hiccoughs, but no harm.  just needed to sort out the clfswm.desktop file, and install cl-asdf.

any time i want to use any of the frame fill commands, it freaks out and restarts itself, changing all my layouts back to default.  idk if that's just a debian sid problem tho.

ok, good, now that's all the bad news outta the way... now i can ramble on with an endless stream of geekgasm gush.

i... love... this... window manager.

logo-screen.png
^kinda says it all.  ... ok not all.  it at least hints at the paradigm revolution that's been hiding in clfswm all these years.  like the quietly confident new super-being.  ^_^

i'm still a noob with it, at time of writing, having only been playing around for a couple hours or so.  but already, i am head over heals in love.  finding use-style niches already. 

it did take a little bit to get going initially, but the documentation is great, and the learnin curve so far has never been too steep anywhere to discourage.  the learning curve does seem long though.  there's so much potential even before one gets to playing with lisp to make it even more awesome.

having seen those videos of it in action, i see the potential explodes even farther after starting to meddle with it's on-the-fly live (no restarts) lisp configuring.

i'm already binding frames to slots and getting a feel for it, making it like my old window manager experiences and habits, so it's all rather pleasant to transition to.  familiar, but with so much more new stuff to explore.

this one has great potential.  smile

i havnt even had a look at the config files or anything even that deep yet.   just wanted to make a post to signify my clfswm ball is finally rolling.  (thnx for the nudge in the right direction from gutterslob)


~ think ~

without a shot fired
quote of the mo: ""... i realised it's simpler to make a statue to someone who you believe embodies all your better qualities, than it is to actually improve yourself" ... "so i have decided to go away. i will return when i have found a way to destroy this, while keeping the message intact"  -G'Kar

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#3 2012-06-03 10:08:28

Awebb
The Singularity
Registered: 2009-07-23
Posts: 2,812

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

They should start impementing proper config files for tiling WM's. Everytime somebody doesn't like the color of the borders, a WM is forked and given a new name. But it also seems like the best reason for learning lisp is the infinite potential of annoying users all over the world.


I'm so meta, even this acronym

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#4 2012-06-27 22:46:27

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,015
Website

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

i dont at all understand the lisp-hate out there.  ^_^

i seem to encounter it almost everywhere i mention clfswm.

e.g.

(2012-06-27 23:22:48) digitteknohippie: clfswm tho...
(2012-06-27 23:22:57) ElTimo: Who now?
(2012-06-27 23:23:20) digitteknohippie: http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … idden-gem/
(2012-06-27 23:23:20) ElTimo: Oh gross. Lisp.
(2012-06-27 23:23:23) digitteknohippie: lol
(2012-06-27 23:23:41) ElTimo: I know exactly zero lisp, and I don't feel like learning it.
(2012-06-27 23:23:51) digitteknohippie: oh yeah, i forgot, ~thnx for reminding me~ i was in the middle of making a new post on that.
(2012-06-27 23:24:09) ElTimo: What, learning lisp?
(2012-06-27 23:24:30) digitteknohippie: i havnt felt the need to learn any lisp to use clfswm.  it's so rich out of the box.  still so much to explore.
(2012-06-27 23:24:43) ElTimo: Hmm
(2012-06-27 23:24:47) ElTimo: Maybe I'll check it out

^_^

(that was just me being too lazy to reiterate.)

clfswm is crazy!  a real grower.  i was first drawn to it because i saw the potential.  or at least i thought i did.  i now am starting to see more n more potential. 

i'm still a lil clunky with it.  not making use of hardly any of it's existing keybinds yet, let alone making my own.  and as clunky as i am with it (comparatively to the potential i see), it still outshines even my most advanced openbox configurations, or even scrotwm, ...or even my best xmonad configurations (just).

it is a lil irksome some of the time with some of it's maaaany keybinds getting in the way of existing keyinds, nothing tragic yet. just changing tabs in some apps with alt1, 2, 3, etc, and f10 for exiting some ncurses apps.  once i go look to see how to change keybinds, it wont be an issue anymore.  ... havnt bothered to look yet... no idea if it's going to be hard or simple.  saw it done in a breeze on the videos, made it look "easy" (if you know what you're doing.).

one other issue, i seem to be using a lot more brackets (or whatever it is yanks call these things: )

(((parenthesis) that's right) now i remember)

so maybe i'm ready...


~ think ~

without a shot fired
quote of the mo: ""... i realised it's simpler to make a statue to someone who you believe embodies all your better qualities, than it is to actually improve yourself" ... "so i have decided to go away. i will return when i have found a way to destroy this, while keeping the message intact"  -G'Kar

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#5 2012-06-27 23:14:42

pidsley
Window Mangler
Registered: 2012-05-23
Posts: 1,752

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

What does it do that other tilers don't? That's what will sell people. I don't see the "paradigm revolution." What am I missing?

digit wrote:

made it look "easy" (if you know what you're doing.).

Isn't everything?

Last edited by pidsley (2012-06-27 23:28:23)

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#6 2012-06-27 23:16:12

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

Awebb wrote:

But it also seems like the best reason for learning lisp is the infinite potential of annoying users all over the world.

I LOVE YOU!

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#7 2012-06-27 23:34:01

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,015
Website

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

for those who want to try clfswm.  the following may be useful in getting it working.  do have a proper look through the site too though, so you have some idea of what you're doing

though it's not automatically pulled in as a dependancy, it seems you will need the cl-asdf package.

also, it seemed to be missing a desktop file...

[Desktop Entry]

Name=clfswm
Encoding=UTF-8
Comment=Start some convoluted Lisp WM
Exec=/home/digit/bin/clfswm.sh
TryExec=clfswm
Type=Xsession

^ example clfswm.desktop

 
#!/bin/bash

#setxkbmap us &
feh --bg-scale /home/digit/images/wallpapers/pink-nebula-wallpaper.jpeg &
#thunar --daemon &
#mpd &
#numlockx on &
#urxvtd -q -o -f &
#tilda &
yeahconsole &
sleep .2
clfswm #or whatever the wm executable is called

^example  clfswm.sh to launch it from whatever your session manager thingy setup thingy thing is (gdm or slim whatever)

change to suit your own setup.

the most basic survival keybinds, i'd say would be, in addition to knowing the main menu is accessible from a left click in the very top left of the screen, alt enter, and shift alt enter to move in and out (up or down) the tree of windows.. or whatever lingo is correct (lol), and alt left clicking on the desktop will help you create more windows (also acessible from the menu (get exploring)), and also alt and the cursor keys...  well, i dont want to be too exhaustive here... you'll be off learning the rest yourself.  smile   alt-tab still works too.  do check out the layouts.  smile

Last edited by Digit (2012-06-28 00:06:43)


~ think ~

without a shot fired
quote of the mo: ""... i realised it's simpler to make a statue to someone who you believe embodies all your better qualities, than it is to actually improve yourself" ... "so i have decided to go away. i will return when i have found a way to destroy this, while keeping the message intact"  -G'Kar

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#8 2012-06-27 23:59:39

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,015
Website

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

pidsley wrote:

What does it do that other tilers don't? That's what will sell people. I don't see the "paradigm revolution." What am I missing?

the windows in windows thing.  that's the main one.   though, the way i've described it there, barely hints at how deep the implications of it go, particularly when coupled with the ability to clone windows, and also the many layout and window modifiers, and the on-the-fly configurability (no restarts), and... well, you'd probably have to check out the site and the videos to get a better idea than listen to me, a mere enthusiastic noob.

pidsley wrote:
digit wrote:

made it look "easy" (if you know what you're doing.).

Isn't everything?

certainly a lot of things.  smile


~ think ~

without a shot fired
quote of the mo: ""... i realised it's simpler to make a statue to someone who you believe embodies all your better qualities, than it is to actually improve yourself" ... "so i have decided to go away. i will return when i have found a way to destroy this, while keeping the message intact"  -G'Kar

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#9 2012-06-28 01:52:08

thevdude
#! Junkie
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 469

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

Adding "exec clfswm" to .xinit or whatever file you use works fine for starting it, make sure cl-asdf is installed (it won't start without it, but that's not a dependency. ╮ (. ◕ ᴗ ◕.) ╭)

I'm not digging it yet. I <3 my dmenu, and that's gone. The option that's there for running files built in has no tab complete. I don't use lisp, and it's not really tiling anything for me.

It's not resizing to fit the new resolution because as far as I've seen, there's no way to restart it inplace. hmm This isn't looking good so far.

First issue is the hotkeys are stupid, second issue is that there's way to much space left between "frames" when you initially make them. I really have to figure out the config for this to make it make sense.

The whole idea of hotkeys is to be easy, but so far everything I've wanted to do has me do multiple combinations of keys. Using mod1 instead of mod4, minus one.

Making me enter "second mode" to do any useful commands (like spawn a new frame), minus one.

This seems like it'll be counter-productive for me, but I'll play with it more in the future.

Last edited by thevdude (2012-06-28 01:55:22)

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#10 2012-06-28 02:10:43

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 2,983

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

thevdude wrote:

This seems like it'll be counter-productive for me

It's in Lisp, what were you expecting?!! tongue


Point & Squirt

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#11 2012-06-28 03:06:44

thevdude
#! Junkie
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 469

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

I went run a few programs, had to do this

(; ; ; (for f in *) (do mv "$f" ~/backups/"$f".bkup) (done))

Awful stuff, that polish notation. But really, it's a great idea if I could get it to work.

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#12 2012-06-28 03:17:45

thevdude
#! Junkie
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 469

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

FINALLY FOUND OUT HOW TO DO A FEW THINGS.

I can almost predict where frames are going to be made now. Also I've set a few colors.

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#13 2012-06-28 15:57:09

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,015
Website

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

yup, that's a fairly typical first few moments with clfswm it seems.  ^_^

compared to what one is used to with a rapid-workflow wm like scrotwm/spectrwm/xmonad/dwm there does at first seem to be a lot of extra stages (menus, keybinds) to accomplish a lot of tasks.  but still, you can see the potential right?  watched the videos, right?  and then there's the on-the-fly reconfigurability, and ability to set new keybinds on-the-fly and the ability to set the keybinds for numbered windows bosh bosh, quick navigation between things.   ... hehe, sry, excuse my enthused half-inteligeable ramblings.


~ think ~

without a shot fired
quote of the mo: ""... i realised it's simpler to make a statue to someone who you believe embodies all your better qualities, than it is to actually improve yourself" ... "so i have decided to go away. i will return when i have found a way to destroy this, while keeping the message intact"  -G'Kar

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#14 2012-06-29 02:56:12

thevdude
#! Junkie
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 469

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

I'll say it again, since I only said it in chat:

Frames as workspaces is a genius idea.

That said, I don't think this is the wm for me. It definitely has some new ideas (some I like, some I don't), but not quite what I go for.

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#15 2012-07-14 01:44:08

Digit
#! Die Hard
From: the internet
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 1,015
Website

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

genius indeed.

that's gotta be the principle pioneering WOW idea, that all* other wm aught learn from and implement.

*well, maybe not "all", but LOTS, surely.

anoyingly, it strikes me as the kind of thing that is hard to depict to people in words, n it really takes seeing it in action to not only get it, but to get the significance of it, how it augments workflow and work organisation.

and speaking of annoyances...

i had a propper full on crash with clfswm a lil while back.  i.e. it killed X (n all my open apps with it).  not just the half-crash that keeps all your stuff open, but clfswm itself restarts, and thus rearanges all your windows into the one default window.  hmm  even that's not cool, but i certainly prefer that to the total X death.   ... granted i was pushing it rather hard at the time.  ^_^

also of other inconveniance... there was that time (same time prior to the crash actually) where my frame binds stopped working, and would cause semi-crashes any time i tried to simply alt-n (where n is the number 1,2..9,0) and bind or enter.


... just thought i aught come clean about that.  ...y'know since i've been singing it's praises so much. 

it's not a perfect love, she has spazzed out on me a mere handful of times, but we get along so well the rest of the time, it's well worth making the relationship work.  i think i just need to get to know her better, to i can treat her better.  ;D




these days, my use-style with it is mostly in one window, or the half a dozen + that i have on the top root level, scattered around in non-overlapping stacking layout.  in that main window, i have it split up thus: http://ompldr.org/vZXFrNA each of those windows, the video, the text editor, the browser and the chat (tho not currently the contact list beside the chat) i have set up so that i can alt-tab through other windows i have hidden behind them.  very handy way to work.   and of course i can jump out to other stuff in an instant, like i have clementine on alt-8.  can always get back to my chat with alt-4, and that 4 paned window on alt-3.  gimp i always put on alt-5, and so on.   free to change these binds i made on the fly, super easy.

i confess, i still dont have in my memory reflex, the binds for moving and rearanging frames, particularly in tiling modes...  i end up going through the menu, rather clumsily... but then, even through the menu, the more comon things i do, i do as fast as typing now, thnx to the keys for each option.  oh the number of times i type flf, flev, sx, sc, sv and so on... ^_^

i'm head over heels in love as it is... i wonder how much more (or less?) that will be true when i start configuring my own keybinds and stuff in the interactive on-the-fly lisp stuff.  smile   methinks first thing, would be an alt-menu for the top-left menu.


i tried scrotwm briefly again, and as much as i still love it, and still intend to pimp it out in distro-respins i make, it felt very uncomfortable.... not being able to zoom into frames, making them fullscreen with a single keybind n back out, not being able to bind hotkeys to specific frames, not being able to copy frames to other workspaces and layouts...

hmm

clfswm has ruined other window managers for me.


~ think ~

without a shot fired
quote of the mo: ""... i realised it's simpler to make a statue to someone who you believe embodies all your better qualities, than it is to actually improve yourself" ... "so i have decided to go away. i will return when i have found a way to destroy this, while keeping the message intact"  -G'Kar

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#16 2013-10-16 10:42:24

Resident Bot
#! Die Hard
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2012-02-17
Posts: 573

Re: CLFSWM - unearthing another hidden gem

might give it a whirl then, the built in expose feature for choosing child windows looks good although there are other methods to use including a tag feature.
Did you build it or use synaptic as I see the version in synaptic is ancient as usual


Troll = not a fanatic
slave of #!  and arch

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