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#26 2015-08-01 04:42:24

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

smxi ... Well, if you find it useful. At the time, I still had my noob stripes but had managed to master the ungodly art of getting the AMD driver installed. Then I tried smxi and thought "Why do they push noobs in that direction?". It's a very noob-unfriendly experience and given that as porkpiehat says it doesn't do anything you can't do yourself, I wonder who it's for. It does (or used to) get a lot of love on these forums and I've never understood why. Is/was the developer one of us?

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#27 2015-08-01 12:47:24

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

the ungodly art of getting the AMD driver installed

I think that kind of says it.  I have never managed that, smxi does it for me.  Mind you I use it once and leave it until I install a new system then grab my Nvidia drivers.


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#28 2015-08-02 05:22:33

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

orionthehunter wrote:

This has been very helpful. I wasn't aware for example that Sid froze like testing. Or of those aptitude commands.

Flow of packgages:  experimental > unstable > testing

The packages in the Testing repo eventually become the new stable.

So, when there's a freeze, everything stops, except for maybe experimental.  I'm not sure about experimental and have never used any packages from that repo.

Yeah, good ol' HoaS is always teaching us something.  I read on the Siduction forums that apt is better to use for Unstable because it doesn't try to be so smart like aptitude.  Since using apt and learning about holding and unholding packages, I feel more comfortable using Unstable.  However, I may have to think about HoaS's method of using aptitude since I like it better than apt.

@HoaS:  Why do you use apt for updating instead of aptitude when you are using aptitude for upgrades?

Last edited by KrunchTime (2015-08-02 05:25:58)


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#29 2015-08-02 10:59:12

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

KrunchTime wrote:

@HoaS:  Why do you use apt for updating instead of aptitude when you are using aptitude for upgrades?

I use `apt-get update` because it's quicker than the `aptitude` equivalent.

Both programs (now) update the same database.

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#30 2015-08-04 07:24:19

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

@HoaS:  Thank you for your reply.

KrunchTime wrote:

I read on the Siduction forums that apt is better to use for Unstable because it doesn't try to be so smart like aptitude.  Since using apt and learning about holding and unholding packages, I feel more comfortable using Unstable.  However, I may have to think about HoaS's method of using aptitude since I like it better than apt.

Okay, two days ago I installed BL on two partitions on my laptop with the intention of tracking Unstable using one of the installs.  Yesterday, I changed the repos to Unstable on one of the installs and tried performing an aptitude full-upgrade.  There were about three dependency issues with a solution to remove a number of packages, which I didn't want to do, so I opted to go the aptitude safe-upgrade route.  It went fine, but there were 60 - 70 packages that didn't get installed, many of which related to xserver.  So, I decided to see if apt dist-upgrade would handle things differently.  It performed without a hitch, installing all of the xserver updates.

So, the guys over at Siduction were spot on regarding aptitude being too smart when used with Debian Unstable.  I'll continue using apt for my Unstable environments.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2015-08-04 07:25:17)


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#31 2015-08-06 04:17:32

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

@orionthehunter:  I performed attempted an apt-get dist-upgrade about an hour ago.  I wanted to share some of the output as an example of when you make the decision to wait for a future date to perform a dist-upgrade:

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  clementine guayadeque libasprintf0c2 libboost-date-time1.55.0 libcmis-0.5-5
  libcwidget3 libebml4 libept1.4.12 libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 libglu1-mesa:i386
  libicu52:i386 libllvm3.5:i386 libmatroska6 libproxy1 libreoffice
  libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer libreoffice-base libreoffice-base-core
  libreoffice-base-drivers libreoffice-calc libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw
  libreoffice-gtk libreoffice-help-en-us libreoffice-impress libreoffice-math
  libreoffice-report-builder-bin libreoffice-sdbc-firebird
  libreoffice-sdbc-hsqldb libreoffice-writer libstdc++6:i386 libtag1-vanilla
  libtag1c2a libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0:i386 libwine:i386 libxapian22 libxml2:i386
  powertop python3-uno synaptic wine-bin:i386 wine32:i386

I believe the removals have something to do with the introduction of a new package; libtag1v5-vanilla.  Had I accepted going ahead with the dist-upgrade, then I would now be without 4 different programs: clementine, guayadeque, libreoffice, and wine.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2015-08-08 08:36:30)


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#32 2015-08-06 13:50:18

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

@orionthehunter:  I performed an apt-get dist-upgrade about an hour ago

And you still have a system? I thought that gcc5 was incoming and the advice is to put upgrades on hold...
http://forum.siduction.org/index.php?topic=5719

What to do to "survive gracefully":


Do NOT dist-upgrade after July 31 until you find here further instructions, we will keep you posted.

http://linuxbbq.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2201

Again, reading the siduction/linux bbq upgrade threads before upgrading is recommended.


bunsenlabs     8)     forum mod squad

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#33 2015-08-07 08:22:23

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

^ I opted out after seeing the suggested removals and then cherry picked the upgrades that would go through without an issue.  I usually do read the upgrade warnings over at the Siduction forums.  However, it seems that a number of the Siduction forum members use KDE, so I thought the warning was more pertinent to KDE users.  I was anticipating issues though and now they've appeared.

Because of the issue I identified in my previous post, I'm unable to install about 5 or 6 of my favorite apps on my latest BL install tracking Unstable.  It is just a waiting game now.


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#34 2015-08-07 13:13:49

hinto
#! Windbag
From: Cary, NC
Registered: 2010-12-08
Posts: 1,487

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

smxi warned me that libreoffice would get removed... and it did wink
-H (the waiting begins....)


"Sometimes I wish I hadn't taken the red pill" -Me

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#35 2015-08-07 14:07:46

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

The best move i made was passing from testing/sid to stable.
I do not have to think doing updates every morning which i did year ago, saved myself from this habit also breaking psychosis  ]:D


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#36 2015-08-07 14:21:04

hinto
#! Windbag
From: Cary, NC
Registered: 2010-12-08
Posts: 1,487

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

ah... i have 2 installations... 1 stable, the other sid.
I use the sid as a vm host, samba server, etc, so missing things like libreoffice is no big deal in light being able to just "roll".
I don't want to re-install the server OS.
-H


"Sometimes I wish I hadn't taken the red pill" -Me

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#37 2015-08-07 14:36:54

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

I have my own desktop computer at home, I had another fixation early because i always wanted roll or semi roll like most. Saved myself also from this one smile I just copy all my configs and paste to new installation. For personal usaga to me seems acceptable solution. While for the servers is another story big_smile

Btw i was doing for a year daily updates with help of apt-listbugs (hold/unhold) until one day didn't tell me regarding ext4 bug on kernel 4.0.2 that i ended up stucked on boot with lots of errors which i never bothered fixing because they're been really hard to fix. From that day (a month ago) passed to Jessie stable.

Last edited by Nili (2015-08-07 14:38:52)


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#38 2015-08-08 08:39:03

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

Nili wrote:

The best move i made was passing from testing/sid to stable.
I do not have to think doing updates every morning which i did year ago, saved myself from this habit also breaking psychosis  ]:D

Based on what I've read, your not supposed to update Unstable on a daily basis; weekly to bi-weekly is the recommendation.

I never run Unstable alone.  I always dual boot with Stable.  That way, if something does break on my Unstable install, I still have a working computer.  wink

Last edited by KrunchTime (2015-08-08 08:40:16)


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#39 2015-08-08 14:26:32

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

KrunchTime wrote:

Based on what I've read, your not supposed to update Unstable on a daily basis; weekly to bi-weekly is the recommendation.

I never run Unstable alone.  I always dual boot with Stable.  That way, if something does break on my Unstable install, I still have a working computer.  wink

It is very fair what you say, My Sid (unstable) experience first and the last It lasted only 5 days. As I said for a long time i have been using testing repo, doing daily updates for more than a year in testing did not bring any big concern on my system.

After passing on Sid, I continued in the same way i did with testing (that was not right move) which i didn't know Sid It is different, Doing daily updates on sid (unstable) It is categorically not accurate. Anyone must never do daily update on Sid.

The worse for me, didn't had a backup system, didn't had a backup of my settings, didn't had a backup for my 50GB rare lossless audio etc etc... I was finally destroyed from my mistake, not reading more about Sid gave me a good lesson.

I started from scratch , here i am with Stable.  I feel more better , of course I started everything from scratch also for settings, audio, videos , images etc... I'm trying to gather much as I can from past files. Anyway core of the plot "Do backup your things, and never do daily updates on sid". I also enforcing this statement.

Thanks KrunchTime for suggestion.
Kindly regards

Nili


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#40 2015-08-10 13:19:50

hinto
#! Windbag
From: Cary, NC
Registered: 2010-12-08
Posts: 1,487

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

hinto wrote:

smxi warned me that libreoffice would get removed... and it did wink
-H (the waiting begins....)

...And it's back...
Man how I love rolling... wink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_KtQ1BqfHM

-Hinto


"Sometimes I wish I hadn't taken the red pill" -Me

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#41 2015-08-10 13:46:53

pingu
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-12-05
Posts: 367

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

I usually (when debian/aptosid was my main sys) ran my upgrade script daily, some times more than once a day, because I`m too anxious to wait; if there was nothing to do, I'd just run the script again. The  upgrade script was kinda reckless: `apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade -y`. I never had any problem, but I could "always" roll back from a btrfs snapshot... but I'm one of those who have fun fixing stuff, so maybe I was hoping for something terrible to happen.

Last edited by pingu (2015-08-10 13:47:52)


"We don't merge kernel code just because user space was written by a retarded monkey on crack."
Linus f****g Trovalds

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#42 2015-08-11 05:18:12

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

@Nili:  You're welcome and thank you for your kind response.

@hinto:  LibreOffice may be back, but there's still a boatload of stuff wanting to be removed and held back.


Linux User #586672
Come and Die -- Kyle Idleman

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#43 2015-08-11 12:49:39

hinto
#! Windbag
From: Cary, NC
Registered: 2010-12-08
Posts: 1,487

Re: Debian Sid upgrade intervals

Nature of the beast wink
I'm kinda in and out of love with SID.  It was my first distro and my first Linux experience.
Some folks say it's not for the faint of heart, but until 2006, I had no *nix experience.  I started C/C++ coding @ Win 3.0 wink
I started Linux when it when I needed 64 bit.
-H


"Sometimes I wish I hadn't taken the red pill" -Me

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