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#26 2015-02-07 18:41:36

HELPME
#! Junkie
From: the holley land
Registered: 2013-11-15
Posts: 256
Website

Re: The Beginning.

if you guys dont like crunch¡ then Ill probably take a fork to it because the cadbury c looks a lot like the debian logo or buzz lightyears chin

bang inverted is peud so Im calling ¡ a peud (its an up side down exclamation point not an i)

chillicampari wrote:

@HELPME, haha, no, you are not one of the bat-fucking-crazy nutters. As for room, of course, you will make your own place.

thanks smile then I dont know who the kind of people he was referring to...

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Be excellent to each other!

#27 2015-02-07 18:44:51

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: The Beginning.

Nothing I want to get into right now. smile But as long as this is sustainable (and I'm assuming it is) it will be something the community will need to share also (think of it as a distributed problem). But that is for later.

(edit, okay I guess I'll be here today some. smile )

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#28 2015-02-07 19:33:00

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: The Beginning.

pvsage wrote:

I think someone on the Debian development team (wait, isn't Philip Newborough on that team? ]:D ) should sponsor a CrunchDE package.  It would be like LXDE, but with Tint2 and Conky configured OOTB as they are in CrunchBang.  Also, it would include the Openbox menu and would not have desktop icons by default.

That's the best idea so far.

There's a CrunchBang Fork (for lack of a better term) meetup at the Southern California Linux Expo in Los Angeles in a couple of weeks, where a discussion about whether to start another distro using the same technology (Debian under Openbox) and the same community principles (be excellent to one another) will be explored. It might amount to something or it might not. But anyone going to SCALE is welcome to participate, and as a participant, I'd gladly float pvsage's idea.


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

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#29 2015-02-07 19:59:03

twoion
Moderator
Registered: 2012-05-11
Posts: 1,648

Re: The Beginning.

We need a place to systematically collect suggestions on how to spin off, improve, change and keep #!. A git organization + repo seems to be the ideal place to do that neatly. Maybe we could create an organization on Github? 'SparkleLabs' if you want.

Another thing: maybe we could call in an IRC meeting for people who would like to take a role in a #! successor project for brainstorming purposes.

Last edited by twoion (2015-02-07 20:00:32)


Tannhäuser ~ {www,pkg,ddl}.bunsenlabs.org/{gitlog,repoidx}

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#30 2015-02-07 20:01:25

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: The Beginning.

^That sounds like a really good idea if you want to get that going.

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#31 2015-02-07 20:07:26

photonucleon
Quantum Geek
From: Hogwarts
Registered: 2013-06-10
Posts: 952

Re: The Beginning.

I'm definitely up for being involved in whatever project happens smile

I'm not very familiar with github, but I'm sure that can be remedied big_smile

I would also be up for participating in an IRC thingy... wink


- Ai! Aníron Undómiel. -
- Some things are certain. -
- Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. -

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#32 2015-02-07 20:23:30

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: The Beginning.

Rereading Corenominal's resignation, it is apparent that he considers our needs to be now best met by vanilla Debian.

Debian 8 will have Gnome, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, Cinnamon and MATE as available DEs. It will also have greater theming possibilities than Debian 7 and will for example include the Faenza icon theme in its repos. You'll surely find something there that you will like.

The thing worth keeping here is the community. If we shift our focus to Debian, the forums will remain largely relevant and the community will continue.

What's more, by offering an alternative Debian forum we would be broadening the range of community experiences available to Debian users and do perhaps a greater service to FOSS than we would do by keeping a dead distro (based on a fossilised WM) on life support.

Perhaps we could already add a Debian (Jessie) section to the forum.

What do you think?

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#33 2015-02-07 21:07:12

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: The Beginning.

chillicampari wrote:

@HELPME, haha, no, you are not one of the bat-fucking-crazy nutters.

I've reported this post for using inappropriate language. tongue

intoCB wrote:

Perhaps we could already add a Debian (Jessie) section to the forum.

What do you think?

+1


bunsenlabs     8)     forum mod squad

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#34 2015-02-07 21:19:29

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: The Beginning.

(no you didn't) wink

If corenominal doesn't see this within the next few days (since there is a ton of stuff going on) remind me.

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#35 2015-02-08 01:35:25

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: The Beginning.

Might be worth repeating: unless I've misunderstood what Philip has said, no particular distro or DE is likely to be created "with corenominal's blessing" or be referred to as a CrunchBang anything. He has said that he'd like the CrunchBang name to end here, and think we should respect that and not choose names that suggest some sort of link with #!. Also, there would be bound to be resentment from people doing something slightly different who might feel excluded from the select group.

We don't know all Philip's reasons for calling a halt but I'd guess lack of time is a major one. Let's not pester him with requests to make decisions about what should happen from now on. The ball is in our court.

This is a chaotic time, but hopefully things will coalesce a bit in due course and we'll have a smallish number of viable projects, each with their own things to contribute.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#36 2015-02-08 01:58:49

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: The Beginning.

johnraff wrote:

... CrunchBang anything. He has said that he'd like the CrunchBang name to end here, and think we should respect that and not choose names that suggest some sort of link with #!...

I thought I had read him requesting not to name a distro #!, but I can't find that post now. Was it in his last (edited) response in The End? Maybe my cold has me blind and it's right in front of me, but I can't find it. BTW, I remember the developer of Archbang was on these forums during Archbang's early development and wondering if his name was stepping on toes, I don't recall papa being upset by it.

I hope you don't mean renaming the forums though, especially not as long as they're on this domain. He can't have meant that.

Philip, we may need one more post from you to clarify this.

To be clear on my personal position, for anyone who cares... a new distro, not interested. I did what Philip has done (moved on to vanilla Debian) almost immediately after joining these forums.

These forums, 100% committed.


bunsenlabs     8)     forum mod squad

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#37 2015-02-08 02:13:26

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: The Beginning.

I've no idea what will - or should- happen to the name of the forum.
Quite tricky...


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#38 2015-02-08 04:39:28

HELPME
#! Junkie
From: the holley land
Registered: 2013-11-15
Posts: 256
Website

Re: The Beginning.

okay so completely different name then

Ive been looking at the word minimalist and it can be shortened to just min
and this ≪ is much less than
otherwise the symbolism could be < because its more commonly known about as less than and more minimal than «

Im not exactly sure as how to convey configurability

otherwise there is $hell

I think Ive ran out of ideas for now

*edit*
this ≪ could be so lightweight/fast that its going backwards through the cyberspacetime continuum

*edit*
I guess we should avoid trying to represent the os with just 2 characters?

Last edited by HELPME (2015-02-08 05:04:21)

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#39 2015-02-08 05:00:02

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: The Beginning.

intoCB wrote:

Rereading Corenominal's resignation, it is apparent that he considers our needs to be now best met by vanilla Debian.

Debian 8 will have Gnome, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, Cinnamon and MATE as available DEs. It will also have greater theming possibilities than Debian 7 and will for example include the Faenza icon theme in its repos. You'll surely find something there that you will like.

The thing worth keeping here is the community. If we shift our focus to Debian, the forums will remain largely relevant and the community will continue.

What's more, by offering an alternative Debian forum we would be broadening the range of community experiences available to Debian users and do perhaps a greater service to FOSS than we would do by keeping a dead distro (based on a fossilised WM) on life support.

Perhaps we could already add a Debian (Jessie) section to the forum.

What do you think?

Just to be clear, if you want to be sure you can install all DEs available in Jessie at once, you need all three DVD images.  In my case, the installer was able to connect to my wifi router, but wasn't able to "find a default path" or whatever...I guess it couldn't find its way through TWC's modem to t3h grater interwebz...so installing from just the first DVD gave me Gnome, but I'd have to install the other DEs separately afterwards.

EDIT:  Oh, and so far, I am a bit disappoint with both LXAppearance's color chooser and gnome-color-chooser.  The latter seems to have zero effect on real-world applications (Iceweasel, Nautilus), and the former only works with gtk2.  Looking forward to seeing how XFCE disappoints.

EDIT2:  Incidentally, I don't consider changing window element colors and themes a trivial thing.  Just a couple examples, many people have "low vision" and need to be able to change to a High Contrast theme easily, while others (myself included) have sensitive eyes that benefit from a globally light-on-dark theme.

OK, all DVDs downloaded and in  the process of burning to disc now.  U wont c me 4 awile.

Last edited by pvsage (2015-02-08 06:22:41)

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#40 2015-02-08 08:04:19

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: The Beginning.

^I always net install with "graphical expert install" selected so any opinion I have is coloured by that.

All the DEs are imperfect out of the box but once it's done it's done.

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#41 2015-02-08 08:39:06

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: The Beginning.

So far, Openbox basic, Cinnamon, and XFCE fail to satisfy the "differently visually abled" requirement...testing MATE right now, and posting from it just to say that it seems to fit the bill so far.  It's limited, but at least its background color setting seems to affect both gtk2 and gtk3 applications.

Last edited by pvsage (2015-02-08 08:47:49)

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#42 2015-02-08 08:58:12

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: The Beginning.

Playing around with Jessie and theming and I keep getting those gtk3 apps ugly faces poping out, how to come over that? Can Jessie be gtk3 free, or must I deal with that? If so, what to read to understand?

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#43 2015-02-08 09:09:46

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: The Beginning.

^ So far, it looks like different DEs handle gtk2/gtk3 differently.  Cinnamon doesn't seem to handle gtk2 at all; XFCE does a fair job.  MATE is more consistent across the board, but doesn't have the scope of tweaking available for gtk2 themes in LXDE.

EDIT:  Standalone Openbox, without well-written obconf.xml and menu.xml, is right out.  Might as well be flying blind there...though the Openbox config files in Waldorf offer a good roadmap.

Last edited by pvsage (2015-02-08 09:12:19)

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#44 2015-02-08 09:12:45

HELPME
#! Junkie
From: the holley land
Registered: 2013-11-15
Posts: 256
Website

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#45 2015-02-08 09:23:20

Time
#! Member
Registered: 2015-02-07
Posts: 95

Re: The Beginning.

MATE - a very good prospect.
In Linux Mint 17.1 (MATE) can even cause global menu anywhere on the desktop (as in Openbox) by pressing Alt + F1.

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#46 2015-02-08 11:04:05

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2012-05-22
Posts: 2,205

Re: The Beginning.

I still think a continuation of crunchbang as an actual distro would be best (of course the DE package is a good idea, too, and they are not mutually exclusive).
Because it's the way of the noob.

i already expressed some thoughts on the name - I would prefer Ater (please, no ponies, and no startrek, either)

and some thoughts on continuation - and why crunchbang is not "just another openbox distro".

Actually, this could become a point for me to start contributing in a more serious way.
I don't know; I don't want to advertise myself here, but where would be the place to knock on the door?

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#47 2015-02-08 11:15:54

smacz
#! Junkie
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 250

Re: The Beginning.

If I understand the #! forums correctly, the door's always open.

Mate has a very navigation friendly site. Here is their roadmap. Keep in mind Jessie will be shipped with the 1.8.1 release. Several open action items to note however:

I will be looking forward to hear what pvsage has to say about his experience in regards to tweakability and stability/edge case handling.

Keep in mind that other WM's can be used instead of the one that is shipped with it (marco). This could open the door to optional tiling WM's or perhaps even fossilized ones. Whatever fits the bill really.

As far as I'm aware, no vanilla Debian Jessie DE ships with conky preconfigured. Which is trivial for most to set up, but another step to take during the setup and customization phase of the install.

Taking a break for one quick opinionated observation: mate-panel isn't beefy enough. There's hardly any substance. Tint2, to me, is one of the most "Unix-y" things that I've seen in a DE. Sleek, yet robust; commanding yet unobtrusive. Wherever I go, whatever I do for the foreseeable future, tint2 will be right there with me where it belongs.

ArchWiki wrote:

The MATE team recommends LightDM as the display manager with the GTK+ (2) greeter, which can be installed with the lightdm-gtk2-greeter package.

(retrieved from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MA … al_log-in)

Which reflects the SLiM issue brought up by johnraff here.

Obligatory demo on youtube.

And lastly, their manifesto is refreshingly concise and in line with established #! principals especially regarding lower end/older hardware.

After my cursory investigation into MATE, I have to say that I'm impressed. Can anyone here vouch for the community over there?

Last edited by smacz (2015-02-08 11:18:05)

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#48 2015-02-08 11:27:28

El Cruncho
Member
Registered: 2015-02-01
Posts: 22

Re: The Beginning.

Quick side question: what's that vanilla Debian I keep reading about? When I google it, I find kernel.org (from Debian's site), which looks like the naked, vanilla kernel. I suppose we're talking about pureDebian instead, but I just wanted to be sure.
It looks like it's bloated with stuff I personally don't need, so I guess I only need to find a guide on this forum to "crunchbang it".

---

New name idea: what about Munchfart?

Ok, sorry for that one big_smile  (It would fit a stinkier, watered-down version of CB though).
I like the idea of keeping alive a debian-based openbox/tint2/conky that's compact, stable and mighty fast.
Does it take THAT much work to set up? I have no idea.
But if you want a name for it, what about something that's compact, stable, and mighty fast? Like Blitzturtle or something.
Or anything chess-related, if you like the dark side theme?

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#49 2015-02-08 12:08:13

HELPME
#! Junkie
From: the holley land
Registered: 2013-11-15
Posts: 256
Website

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Be excellent to each other!

#50 2015-02-08 12:10:34

El Cruncho
Member
Registered: 2015-02-01
Posts: 22

Re: The Beginning.

Ok ok, I see. It's the "Netinstall" lightweight version then. Thanks HELPME smile .

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