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#1 2014-12-31 12:08:07

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

LMDE might not adopt systemd.  If so, they would be the only major player (Distrowatch top 10) to buck the trend.  Hoping they do...

Source: Linux Mint Debian Might Not Adopt Systemd (Softpedia) citing Clem LeFebvre's blog (13 Dec 2014)

Last edited by cpoakes (2015-01-21 22:15:04)


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#2 2014-12-31 13:17:33

flaneur
#! Member
Registered: 2014-01-24
Posts: 99

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

There's really not much to go on in that Softpedia link. Just speculation at this time.

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#3 2014-12-31 13:37:07

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 3,264

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Unless things change, I think it will be futile to resist systemd, at least from what I've read.  However, I'm definitely not a tech guru.

Last edited by KrunchTime (2014-12-31 13:37:24)


Linux User #586672
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#4 2014-12-31 13:59:58

g33zr
#! Die Hard
From: Never Never Land
Registered: 2013-02-19
Posts: 635

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

^I agree, but whatever Clem & Co. decide to do with LMDE, it won't be a hasty decision. And, whether or not you like Mint, it's a great distro that offers much choice to both n00bs (like me) as well as experienced Linuxers who prefer to keep maintenance and tweaking to a minimum.


It's never too late to learn something new! wink

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#5 2014-12-31 20:35:33

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

@flaneur: Oh I agree, there is not much to go on in that article, that is why I included the link to Clem's blog.  What I find noteworthy is the lead developer has committed LMDE to move from testing to stable along with GTK 3.14 for Cinnamon but has not committed to an init system.


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#6 2014-12-31 20:59:51

Alad
Software Satan
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 1,512

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Ubuntu will use Upstart until at least 2019. Why should Mint bother to switch to systemd? (and FYI, Chrome OS sticks to Upstart as well).

edit: oh, LMDE. nvm then.

Last edited by Alad (2014-12-31 21:02:29)

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#7 2014-12-31 22:29:57

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

@cpoakes, from what I can tell, Softpedia has completely misinterpreted Clem's blog post. The post talks about the RCs of 17.1 "Rebecca" Xfce and KDE editions. 17.1 is based on Ubuntu, it's not an LMDE spin.

GAH! Strike all that, the rest of the post is about 17.1 "Rebecca" so I glossed right over "in LMDE 2 “Betsy” in that line. But GTK 3.14 is the version in sid also, where do you see that LMDE as a whole is switching to stable?

Last edited by hhh (2014-12-31 23:06:27)


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#8 2014-12-31 23:24:32

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

The decision to switch from testing to stable was announced last summer.  When Jessie goes stable, LMDE goes stable.  See Clem's Blog (July 2014).


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#9 2014-12-31 23:42:34

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Thanks much for this thread. I didn't realize Mint offered Compiz. I used Compiz w/ and w/out Xfce for quite a while and found it to be pretty fab...
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=353665

I'm both impressed by Clem's attention to his users, responding to commenters regularly and all, but also confused by his statement that he prefers stability over bleeding edge. Why did he use Ubuntu as a base in the first place? Also, I thought the original purpose of LMDE was to provide Mint users with a rolling release. Anyway, he's making decisions as he sees fit, and doing a great job of it.

I've just downloaded the Rebecca Xfce RC and dd'd it to USB, I'm psyched to see Compiz in action after not using it for many months now. Thanks again for the info, cheers!


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#10 2015-01-21 22:13:42

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

It's official, LMDE 2 "Betsy" (based on jessie) will stick with sysvinit not systemd:

Similar to Linux Mint 17.x, LMDE 2 “Betsy” will be using the traditional sysvinit. The move to systemd could happen with Linux Mint 18 and LMDE 3, giving this new technology and the Linux ecosystem 2 years (or more) to mature and to iron out integration and compatibility issues.

from Linux Mint Blog - Monthly News - January 2015

Maybe a MintBang in my future.


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#11 2015-01-22 02:42:44

paxmark1
#! Junkie
From: Winnipeg, MB Canada
Registered: 2009-07-08
Posts: 263

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Well, I guess I got my answer!

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p … 9&t=184465

a reply of mine to a non-reply follows.

Well actually aptitude shows that I do have systemd installed on LMDE. My belief is that it just still uses the sysvint style of logging.

If anyone does have any helpful hints as to how to cut the cord on logging via sysvinit I would appreciate. I do wish to become proficient at LMDE because I am trying to get friends off of XP and to install LMDE. I do realize that I might be setting myself up for being their tech support. Looking down that road I know I do not want to be reading sysvinit logs on machines that come with systemd installed.

...  I talked about what had worked previous to enable logging in a problematic sid install in /etc/systemd/journald.conf which did not work in lmde  and asking for help in getting it to work in systemd-204  and then

It would be helpful to me to know if LMDE is going to proceed down the road with systemd in an orderly fashion for a derivative based on stable or focus on a sysvinit version of stable. I would suggest that if you are going to go with systemd that you go with systemd logging and not a hybrid version with systemd tools and sysvinit logging.

Sigh,  I was scheduled to install LMDE onto 2 co-workers old xp computers in the next week.

SIDEissue, anyone know if the ubuntu flavour of mint will go with systemd?


Jean Vanier wrote "Being Human" and "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright.  Gotta love the Massey Lectures.

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#12 2015-01-22 10:33:18

cpoakes
#! CrunchBanger
From: Tucson, Arizona
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 202

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

^See the quote and link to the Linux Mint Blog - it indicates both LMDE 2 and LinuxMint 17 are using sysvinit, not systemd.


programming and administering unix since 1976 (BSD, System III, Xenix, System V, Linux)

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#13 2015-01-22 12:32:37

excollier
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-18
Posts: 66

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Hurrah!

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#14 2015-01-22 15:40:55

Anaconda
crypto-anarchist
From: Vancouver Canada
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 437

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

The fact that both the Ubuntu based release and LMDE are sticking with the traditional sysvinit, plus the switch from testing to stable for LMDE with the release of jessie, says a lot about where this project is going. Stability is a major focus of Linux Mint going forwards.

"The move to systemd could happen with Linux Mint 18 and LMDE 3, giving this new technology and the Linux ecosystem 2 years (or more) to mature and to iron out integration and compatibility issues".

That, plus the fact that I like the Cinnamon desktop, is making LMDE look more and more appealing to me.


“The university is well structured, well tooled, to turn out people with all the sharp edges worn off...." Mario Savio
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#15 2015-01-22 16:26:02

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Aren't they just setting sysvinit as the default init system? Judging from Clem's answers in the comments, it looks like systemd will still be part of the release and will be a dependency due to udev and logind.


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#16 2015-01-22 17:10:01

Anaconda
crypto-anarchist
From: Vancouver Canada
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 437

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

@hhh  If that is the case I can see why they would include it. Makes dealing with the dependencies easeir in the long haul. It also would make switching to use systemd pretty easy for anyone who wants to do it.

I still like the way they are doing this. Keep with the stable proven sysvinit by default. Just one old timers opinion. Us old guys don't like change, or so I'm told. smile


“The university is well structured, well tooled, to turn out people with all the sharp edges worn off...." Mario Savio
"Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse". Help enforce our right to free and anonymous speech by taking the Tor challenge.

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#17 2015-01-22 17:32:40

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

@big snake, right. But I don't see how the way Debian is implementing systemd for jessie is bad. You can test going back to sysvinit by adding one boot parameter and you can revert to it permanently with one command....
https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianU … _Jessie.3F
https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianU … _Jessie.3F

So, set sysvinit as PID1...

sudo apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim systemd-sysv-

Go back to systemd as PID1...

sudo apt-get install systemd-sysv && sudo apt-get purge sysvinit-core systemd-shim

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!


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#18 2015-01-22 19:58:06

Rocky
#! Member
From: Ireland
Registered: 2014-06-03
Posts: 56

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Anaconda wrote:

.........That, plus the fact that I like the Cinnamon desktop, is making LMDE look more and more appealing to me.

I have tried out the latest XFCE Rebecca 17.1 and it is certainly very nice - great looking , very nice font rendering etc - unfortunately it is unlikely that there would be  an XFCE ( a XFCE ?? big_smile ) version of LMDE ?
I don't really like Cinnamon (or MATE) - menus take up way too much screen estate.


"All that glisters is not gold"

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#19 2015-01-23 05:42:35

Anaconda
crypto-anarchist
From: Vancouver Canada
Registered: 2008-12-04
Posts: 437

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

@Rocky  I can see how those menus might bother you if you have a small screen. I have no issue with them myself and actually like how they function. But then I am using a 1920x1200 screen.

Sometimes I recomend things to other people back here in my offline world and forget to think of things like that. Thanks for that reminder.


“The university is well structured, well tooled, to turn out people with all the sharp edges worn off...." Mario Savio
"Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse". Help enforce our right to free and anonymous speech by taking the Tor challenge.

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#20 2015-01-23 13:53:12

g33zr
#! Die Hard
From: Never Never Land
Registered: 2013-02-19
Posts: 635

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

@Rocky: Yes, the Cinnamon menu certainly takes up more screen than the #! one, but there are a few alternatives: You can add your favorite or most-used apps to the panel, create keyboard shortcuts/launchers, or open your apps with cli. As always, Linux is about choice(s)!  smile


It's never too late to learn something new! wink

OHCG | LXer

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#21 2015-01-24 06:22:02

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

What, does the "Menu Editor" on Cinnamon not do anything?  I haven't played with that DE in a year.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=169532


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#22 2015-01-25 16:02:18

g33zr
#! Die Hard
From: Never Never Land
Registered: 2013-02-19
Posts: 635

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

@hhh: A little late in answering, but, yes, the Mint Menu Editor is configurable (right-click to configure and select a keyboard combination to open and close it--easy peasy).  smile


It's never too late to learn something new! wink

OHCG | LXer

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#23 2015-01-31 22:37:51

Mpok
Member
Registered: 2014-12-06
Posts: 28
Website

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

As for LMDE, it's pretty 'dead'. As they decided to follow the 'stable' releases of Debian, there is no more interest in that distrib (if u want Cinnamon, it's now on Debian repos).

hhh wrote:

But I don't see how the way Debian is implementing systemd for jessie is bad. You can test going back to sysvinit by adding one boot parameter and you can revert to it permanently with one command.

That's JUST WHAT IS BAD !! yikes
They don't switch. They want to maintain the old system, but they are URGED to bring systemd in their repos.
So, we get multiples packages in order to keep sysv, beside the fact systemd IS compatible with sysv services files. hmm

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#24 2015-01-31 22:53:21

schwim
#! Die Hard
From: Interweb's #1 Devotee
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 1,031
Website

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE): no systemd [confirmed]

Mpok wrote:

As for LMDE, it's pretty 'dead'. As they decided to follow the 'stable' releases of Debian, there is no more interest in that distrib (if u want Cinnamon, it's now on Debian repos).

Didn't LMDE pretty much get laid to rest when Ikey split to make and then subsequently bury SolusOS? I thought I remembered reading that he was the driving force in it's development.

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