boycott systemd

exidux · 2014-11-30 13:12:12

Unia wrote:

They're doing it: https://devuan.org/

i do not know why, but that website looks a bit f-ugly, rushed, and immature concerning
the subject and goals.

damo · 2014-12-01 06:56:43

This webpage is not available

Hacked? Haven't paid the bills? Or...

systemctl disable boycottsystemd.service

KrunchTime · 2014-12-01 23:57:46

exidux wrote:

Unia wrote:
They're doing it: https://devuan.org/
i do not know why, but that website looks a bit f-ugly, rushed, and immature concerning
the subject and goals.

Agreed

gutterslob · 2014-12-02 02:46:01

Hah!! You should've seen what the OpenBSD guys made (read the smallprint at the bottom) when they first started LibreSSL project.

zacharias · 2014-12-02 11:58:02

noe more source, ladies and fellas http://debianfork.org

Alad · 2014-12-02 22:28:43

^ Few posts above yours.

twoion · 2014-12-02 22:52:27

gutterslob wrote:

Hah!! You should've seen what the OpenBSD guys made (read the smallprint at the bottom) when they first started LibreSSL project.
http://s29.postimg.org/yqnejqb2b/libressl_org.jpg

I like that attitude.

zacharias · 2014-12-03 10:07:35

Alad wrote:

^ Few posts above yours.

sorry, mate.
btw: comincsans <3

iMBeCil · 2014-12-03 10:29:01

twoion wrote:

I like that attitude.

Wicked, man ... wicked ]:D ]:D

boisei0 · 2014-12-03 11:35:33

Just when you thought this farce (called Dng (Devuan) mailinglist) couldn't get worse...

Perhaps the old programs still work, but the new versions have stolen
their identity. Why is this allowed to happen? Why not fork the whole
userland and keep with the good honest versions written by good honest
men before the social progressives noticed opensource in the 2005 to
2010 timeperiod (and now have taken total control).
When I joined OSS it was a men's club and we had freedom to do and
create what we wanted, and we always had the best interests of the
user in mind: security, privacy, etc. We were /NOT/ microsoft and
/NOT/ apple. The government /WAS/ an enemy, and linux was the
techno-anarchist cure.
Now it's just another leaf on the branch and totally co-opted by
feminists and social justice warriors (just like how they co-opt
russian republics, muslim countries, you name it). And the programs
are rewritten to spy/advertise/etc.
It was good while it lasted. Women, who are allied against men, and
their supplicants ruined it. Any man who noticed this was kicked out
(Ted Walther) or their programs attacked and pulled from their hosts
by the request of feminists ( esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1310 ).
The fact is that Men create things. Women only create life (babies).
That is the general rule. Now the Men are kicked out and opensource
has a "governing structure", only women and men who are submissive to
women are allowed (just like in government and corporations)
This is a trajedy.

Sometimes, I wonder why I still bother communicating with GamerGate supporters...

Sector11 · 2014-12-03 11:52:41

boisei0 wrote:

Just when you thought this farce (called Dng (Devuan) mailinglist) couldn't get worse...
Sometimes, I wonder why I still bother communicating with GamerGate supporters...

{shaking head} Unbelievable!

boisei0 · 2014-12-03 12:41:05

I thought that had to be the bottom of this deep, deep well. Nope, the well has a cellar as well:

The New Testament is for women. It says men and women are equal
(obvious lie), free and slave are the same (another lie: the romans
were genetically different than the populations they conqured), that
there is no Jew nor Greek (since we can tell them apart through DNA I
don't think that's true either) etc etc. The social progressives of
that day wrote that collection of books. It even has if you mess with
a child you should be drowned (better a millstone)
Totally the opposite of the Old Testament which allows men to marry
young girls

And that cellar has a well underneath it as well, and it goes deeper and deeper and deeper. Goodbye Dng mailinglist, I'll continue reading you once you filter crap like this out.

Bottom line (just in):

> Wanna contribute something relevant to Devuan, no one is stopping you.
> Either provide real help or gtfo, your political rants are of no real
> value.
What can I do? I'm a videogame programmer

Hello GamerGate (/me pushes finger in back of throat)
[/end of rant]

pvsage · 2014-12-03 14:28:02

#boyspostingfromparentsbasement
/thread

EDIT: Srsly, I expect Devuan to gain sooo much support with posts like that.

Last edited by pvsage (2014-12-03 14:39:07)

g33zr · 2014-12-03 15:27:56

^ Larry Cafiero apparently agrees with you. See: A Devuan and A-two

boisei0 · 2014-12-03 15:29:17

pvsage wrote:

EDIT: Srsly, I expect Devuan to gain sooo much support with posts like that.

The mere problem: there are about 18 ~ 22 persons actively talking on the mailing list, of which about 3 ~ 5 are constantly speaking crap. In the five days I've spent on the list, we've had:
1) Keith, anti-government, anti-NSA, anti-everything

Subject: [Dng] Dead-Bian and the new ( devUan ) Fork. Compatibility...
[...]
I would like to state that while we are forking away from this
new STANDARD if you like that term,,,, - Eventually Systemd
will die off.
Word will get around that the only "TRUE BLUE" Linux left on
the shelves are us, and maybe Slackware, and Gentoo.

Subject: [Dng] The day will come.
[...]
Our fork will be seen as one of the few PURE LINUX
distros available.

2) Ruben, Linux activist for over 20 years, long signature linking to several of his projects and to his pro-Zionism webpage, bashing several others in the process; starts a topic on the list about revealing the core team, warning for possible fraud because of the not-yet-revealed core team asks for donations on the initial Devuan site. Unwilling to accept their names and pgp keys, we continues raging and raging. A quick search for his name reveals a topic on the Linux advocacy newsgroup where he tells someone else they deserve 'to be on the 105th floor when it collapsed' if they post such things, when this person linked him a topic about 9/11.

>
> make love
> no war
FUCK LOVE
I want transpancy and accountability.
I hope that isn't being to Brooklyn for you to understand
Who the hell is Denis Rojo and who runs Dyne Org.

(A whois of dyne.org, where the mailinglist is hosted, reveals the address details of someone on the core team: Denis Rojo; Dyne is registered as a non-profit foundation, etc etc etc)

3) Gregory, 'videogame programmer', misogynist, GamerGate supporter, etc etc etc. Problably against SystemD because Lennart is married to an adult woman and he just wants to marry a child. I've quoted him before, and there's far more of that crap down the rabbit hole.

The new testament is crap. It's feminism. When
people couldn't read it
we didn't have feminism, once they learned to read women gained rights
again. Men used to marry young girls in europe when everyone was
illiterate. Men used to marry young girls in the Old Testament, and
still do in the one or two countries where
the peasants keep similar ways.

I think they're letting their politics drive them. RMS, Linus, etc all
agree with "social justice", and Lennart promotes this aswell, so it's
comfortable. Just look at who they married:
Linus: Google search
... That's about it, no one else married anyone...
But they don't strive towards pretty women, and definitly not cute
young girls. No, that would be "opressive" and "objectifying". So they
go with large karate champs (I have no idea how these two concepts
melded into one personification, but they did). They take their life
where there is the possibility of being happy and having a pretty
girl, and they throw that away.

4) 'Normal' topics, like logo design (yet to be approved by the core team) (55/337 mails about this)
Description of logos:
- Several things looking like it took 4 minutes in GIMP to put it together with a few premade filters
- Several logos containing a yet-to-be-confirmed motto: "Do one thing, and do it well!"

5) Lots of off-topic nonsense about the name of the distro

More names:
FreeDeb
Freebian (sound similar to "très bien" = "Very good" in french)
DebChoice
DebChois
DebLiber (Liber = Free in Latin, so it's the source of words as
"Libertad" or "Liberté" ("Freedom" in Spanish and French respectively)
LiberDeb
OpenDeb
DebLin
DebPlus
ReDeb (talking about restart or reboot)
DebRest

6) Topics about whether or not Devuan should give users the choice to use SystemD, if they would like that.

7) 6 topics of use, containing a total of 38 messages worth reading: about 10%...

Previously, I said that Devuan will probably die a quick death. It could be a slow death as well...

pvsage · 2014-12-03 17:10:06

This is one case where "the 20% problem" works in favor of sanity; that 20% will keep more serious developers & users away from Devuan and drive them towards distros developed by more reasonable people.

Alad · 2014-12-03 17:14:43

More names:

Deb7chan.

boisei0 · 2014-12-10 18:30:23

Just found this one in the mail (Dng list, again), have not checked it out yet.

Hello Devuan people
My name is Dragan, from Serbia, and i would like to present our TRIOS GNU/Linux distro based on Debian Jessie, without systemd.
Full xfce desktop, lightdm display manager, OpenRC init etc ... and not a single package from "aliend factory"
Pure debian distro, with our settings.
Our repository(*):
http://mirror.org.rs
-----------
wget -qO - http://mirror.org.rs/mirror.org.rs.gpg.key &#124; apt-key add -
echo "deb http://mirror.org.rs/trios/ mia main non-systemd" >> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/trios-non-systemd.list
-----------
(*)Big THANKS to Mr. Adam Borowski for taking the time to make this possible
Our forum:
http://www.foss.rs
thread about non-systemd TRIOS, with some screenshots and terminal output
http://www.foss.rs/topic/3015-trios-a4sa-i-bez-systemd
Unfortunately, for now only in Serbian, but I hope there will be more members
from other countries, so that we can also write in English.
In the next few days we will publish full live iso version, with our custom installer.
In the meantime, you can try the previous version(systemd-only)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opensourcesrbija-trios
Regards, and welcome to the free world
Dragan

intoCB · 2014-12-10 19:47:01

Inadvertently, we may have lost the crazies from Debian. This must be a good thing.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2014-12-10 19:50:50

^ +1
You have to feel for the poor BSD's though -- they'll be having a mass influx of foaming lunatics all asking how to setup rc.conf...

intoCB · 2014-12-10 20:46:16

^ FreeBSD is surely too loved up following its large cash injection to care about the boatload of Linux systemd refugees.

tknomanzr · 2014-12-11 01:32:44

ratcheer wrote:

This is how Poettering views the future of systemd, straight from his own blog. If you think things are bad now, just wait.
http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how … stems.html
Tim

Having messed some with systemd in its current state, I don't have a huge issue with it as it stands now. However, I cann see the devs are headed down the road to increasing complexity of code, which, in essence will turn any linux that fully implements it into something more resembling osx or windows. I migrated from windows to FOSS partly because developing anything for windows was such a giant pain. Take a look at any windows code and you see ridiculous complexity, partly because of all the legacy code that windows has to support. I remember once, shortly before I started my migration away from Microsoft technologies, it took me 4 1/2 hours to figure out how to get a simple html/css menu up and running in Active Server Pages. Their implementation was bugged and I had to find a hack/workaround. I can accomplish the same feat in 5 minutes using Twitter Bootstrap, for instance AND get a fully responsive menu. Any developed who has ever built anything that mattered will tell you that decreasing code complexity is a worthy and necessary endeavor.

As I said, systemd as it stands now, is not overly complex. In fact, I was able to pick up and start understanding the tools pretty quickly. However, their long-term plans seem to indicate things that fly in the face of what makes FOSS so great, mainly simplicity of code, understandable code and tools, and a thorough vetting process by the community at large.

In truth, I despise Gnome3. fs-tracker-miner is or was total trash. Same for zeitgeist on Ubuntu. And the worst part of it is..you can't run Gnome3 without it and once you get all those depends pulled in, have fun rooting it out. And Ubuntu flat won't run without zeitgeist enabled, regardless what WM/DE you use. Those two things, in a nutshell, are what drove me to Crunchbang. These same companies are the sames ones backing systemd. Things that make you go hmmm....

For now, I prefer to sit it out and see which way it all flies. However, if systemd heads where I think it is possibly heading, I will be heading for the next distro fork without it.

KrunchTime · 2014-12-11 08:07:58

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

...foaming lunatics...

Unia · 2014-12-11 16:41:58

tknomanzr wrote:

In truth, I despise Gnome3. fs-tracker-miner is or was total trash. Same for zeitgeist on Ubuntu. And the worst part of it is..you can't run Gnome3 without it and once you get all those depends pulled in, have fun rooting it out. And Ubuntu flat won't run without zeitgeist enabled, regardless what WM/DE you use.

What? I've run GNOME3 just fine without tracker for weeks. That is, until I discovered how nicely it integrates and, above all, works. In the same way, I just installed a bare Ubuntu virtual machine with a base Xorg, dwm and necessary tools for university project without zeitgeist: it's all running perfectly fine.

tknomanzr · 2014-12-12 02:08:25

Unia wrote:

tknomanzr wrote:
In truth, I despise Gnome3. fs-tracker-miner is or was total trash. Same for zeitgeist on Ubuntu. And the worst part of it is..you can't run Gnome3 without it and once you get all those depends pulled in, have fun rooting it out. And Ubuntu flat won't run without zeitgeist enabled, regardless what WM/DE you use.
What? I've run GNOME3 just fine without tracker for weeks. That is, until I discovered how nicely it integrates and, above all, works. In the same way, I just installed a bare Ubuntu virtual machine with a base Xorg, dwm and necessary tools for university project without zeitgeist: it's all running perfectly fine.

I would love to know how you solved the dependency nightmares past experience tells me that would create. At the time I moved to Crunchbang, fs-tracker-miner was horribly bugged. Would consume 100% cpu on boths cores of my aging desktop fairly frequently. Maybe it's just me, I don't really need my computer attempting to read my mind. My attempts to remove both eventually ended up with me running openbox atop Ubuntu....and then I found Crunchbang.

CrunchBang Linux

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#401 2014-11-30 13:12:12

Re: boycott systemd

#402 2014-12-01 06:56:43

Re: boycott systemd

#403 2014-12-01 23:57:46

Re: boycott systemd

#404 2014-12-02 02:46:01

Re: boycott systemd

#405 2014-12-02 11:58:02

Re: boycott systemd

#406 2014-12-02 22:28:43

Re: boycott systemd

#407 2014-12-02 22:52:27

Re: boycott systemd

#408 2014-12-03 10:07:35

Re: boycott systemd

#409 2014-12-03 10:29:01

Re: boycott systemd

#410 2014-12-03 11:35:33

Re: boycott systemd

#411 2014-12-03 11:52:41

Re: boycott systemd

#412 2014-12-03 12:41:05

Re: boycott systemd

#413 2014-12-03 14:28:02

Re: boycott systemd

#414 2014-12-03 15:27:56

Re: boycott systemd

#415 2014-12-03 15:29:17

Re: boycott systemd

#416 2014-12-03 17:10:06

Re: boycott systemd

#417 2014-12-03 17:14:43

Re: boycott systemd

#418 2014-12-10 18:30:23

Re: boycott systemd

#419 2014-12-10 19:47:01

Re: boycott systemd

#420 2014-12-10 19:50:50

Re: boycott systemd

#421 2014-12-10 20:46:16

Re: boycott systemd

#422 2014-12-11 01:32:44

Re: boycott systemd

#423 2014-12-11 08:07:58

Re: boycott systemd

#424 2014-12-11 16:41:58

Re: boycott systemd

#425 2014-12-12 02:08:25

Re: boycott systemd

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