SEARCH

Enter your search query in the box above ^, or use the forum search tool.

You are not logged in.

#26 2013-08-13 20:02:06

ohyran
#! Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 80
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

What I suggest is that we get back to the issue?

Personally I am of the "the more the merrier" philosophy. That means that sometimes my favorite distros don't get as much light as they perhaps should - BBQ for example - but such is life.

What eOs does right I think is the design. From a design perspective its very very well made. Not that it covers all user needs - because a design that fitted everyone would probably be some kind of dark magic - but because they made a choice and they stuck to it. In that respect eOs and #! is actually pretty much alike.
Both have a set of goals and mission statements (spoken or unspoken) and then stick to these goals and missions through out the entire user experience. Thats tricky to do.

Elementary obviously wanted some of that Mac stability (I'm not saying its a Mac OS clone, that would be to over simplify). To that end they did force through "their own" set of software or found software that was made by a smaller group who aimed for the same goals as they did. They built large portions from scratch and kept a wary eye at third party software and tried to make it conform to the design specs (look at Gazette for example that really fits in well).

The downside is lack of configuration options or perhaps "lack of invitation to configure". You can but its a tricky process - the OS is sort of ment "as is" and you can mostly fiddle a bit with the icons, colours and wallpaper (kinda like windows in a way) so you aren't invited to try and change it too much.

The other downside is a rather ancient base at this point - you can install a new kernel (elementaryupdates shows how) and lets face it Debian Stable isn't exactly the newest software either, but you keep being reminded of the fact with all the ppa's you have to dump into it to keep eOs sort of up to date.

But still they have done something rather interesting and that is another stab at the "what should a Desktop really look like". The Launcher for example is well done, its pretty and it is a sorta new take on the whole thing. It could have been replaced with a simple classical menu but this is a rather nice way of dealing with it. Plank is really a good choice for a dock too and unlike Cairo-dock slimmer and prettier (no huge flashing effects everywhere).


>>>I draw pretty pictures for a living!<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>#! Animal<<<<<<<<<<<<

Offline

Help fund CrunchBang, donate to the project!

#27 2013-08-13 20:37:55

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

ohyran wrote:

But still they have done something rather interesting and that is another stab at the "what should a Desktop really look like".

Of course, my opinion on the matter is that a desktop should look like "user@localhost=>_" ...but then again, I'm not everyone and have never claimed to be.  To each their own, and props to them for any attempt to reach certain users.

Last edited by DebianJoe (2013-08-13 20:41:11)

Offline

#28 2013-08-13 21:01:45

ohyran
#! Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 80
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

DebianJoe wrote:

Of course, my opinion on the matter is that a desktop should look like "user@localhost=>_" ...but then again, I'm not everyone and have never claimed to be.  To each their own, and props to them for any attempt to reach certain users.

I whole heartedly agree! I've since #! crunch my heart gotten into the habit of changing everything to at least look openboxy and with a tint2 and a conky. But just like you say "I'm not everyone" either.
The tricky part with personal opinions is that sometimes its easy to get lost in them, assuming that whats great for you by default must be brilliant for everyone.

"Use what you want but know what you use" as a rather weird book I bought about smoking heroin (of all things) pointed out and that really works for me in other aspects...

Errr Edit: just so everyone is clear on that, I don't smoke heroin or anything stronger than cigarettes and I intend to quit those too. And neither I or this pretty fantastic little book suggest smoking heroin (which was probably the best part about it as it was written of someone who was of the "I've taken every drug there is, fantastic!" personality and who then went through all the exact drawbacks of it making certain no one ever tried smoking heroin).
Just to have that said - don't smoke heroin. Thank you.

Last edited by ohyran (2013-08-13 21:04:28)


>>>I draw pretty pictures for a living!<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>#! Animal<<<<<<<<<<<<

Offline

#29 2013-08-13 21:26:29

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,207

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

Me: So, it looks a bit like Mac OS X.
eOS: Yes, OS X was a big inspiration.
Me: That so?
eOS: *starts rambling about how Steve Jobs wanted to lick buttons....*
Me: Ooookay??
eOS: So what are you waitin for?!
Me: But I already use OS X.
eOS: That means you'll feel right at home.
Me: Thing is, I only use use OS X for work (design, imaging, retouching) and iTunes synching with my phone.
eOS: So you don't browse or watch videos on OS X?
Me: Nope. For everything else, I have VM running full-time with a Linux or OpenBSD session and  preferred window manager.
eOS: Why?
Me: Efficiency, familiarity, and brain cell conservation.
eOS: Huh??
Me: What I'm saying is, you're trying to make me, an OS X user who avoids operating in OS X as much as possible, use an OS X-like operating system.
eOS: You're weird!!
Me: If you say so.
eOS: But our OS is so pretty!!
Me: I never said it wasn't. It's just not what I'm looking for.
eOS: Oh, okay. Wanna donate?

Last edited by gutterslob (2013-08-13 21:37:57)


Point & Squirt

Offline

#30 2013-08-13 21:34:00

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

I think eOS looks interesting and may win over a few users who might prefer an OS X-like interface.  When I saw that it was Ubuntu-based, I became somewhat less interested, and the interface doesn't seem as efficient/intuitive (to me, anyway) as Openbox, because it is largely mouse-driven.

As to fanboyism, all I have to say is -.

Offline

#31 2013-08-13 22:43:00

ohyran
#! Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 80
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

Gutterslop: that is a huge discussion. Its amazing that you managed to memorize and repeat it verbatim... or, and perhaps I'm just a tiny bit rude for saying it: you are not entirely truthful nor honest in your, of course joking representation of the eOs devs.

First they made a point of being inspired by it but not cloning. It would be more accurate to say that they where inspired by Gnome and Windows 7 but wth. Second, they aren't trying to "claw in" the OS X crowd, they are mostly trying out something that isn't done that often in Linux and to a rather specific set of standards.

So let me give you the debate as I think it goes:
You: it looks a bit like OS X
They: Yep that was one of the inspirations but we've tried to avoid to copy it (this is Cassidy, one of the devs, almost word for word btw)
You: k but I already use Os X
They: ok. You wanna use eOs, its different from Os X and its Linux?
You: Its not really what I was looking for.
They: Huh, fair enough.
[fin]

Why is it kinda bugging me when people do this? I've heard things about almost every single Linux OS out there. Similar to this, imaginery "just-for-fun" mocks of devs of other OS's because the person doesn't like using it and for some reason think that they really really really cry themselves to sleep for missing this one person.
The thing is most Windows users or Apple users don't care. Its the Linux user base thats the problem. So much nonsense and these passive-aggressive things where you, just as a joke ha-ha, "criticize" another OS (criticism is too good a word to use really but its what I got).
Theres this lovely saying in the left wing here "Lock three of us in a room, you know that after half an hour three splinter groups will have formed and two will create a tactic cooperation to kill the third". It really is the same with Linux, only worse I think. Which is rather sad. I get that people have strong opinions but too often they are about complete nonsensical issues of random ego-boosting or wild swinging attempts to belong by distancing yourself from another group.

Its like watching a large group of people shoot themselves in the foot and then trying to find someone in the same group to blame for the pain.


>>>I draw pretty pictures for a living!<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>#! Animal<<<<<<<<<<<<

Offline

#32 2013-08-13 22:54:53

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

@ohyran:  I doubt gutterslob is trying to hurt anyone's feelings; he's most likely just having a bit of fun.

@gutterslob:  Do you do stand-up?  If you do, I don't think I'd walk out on one of your shows, and I've seen some highly-acclaimed comedians on whose shows I would walk out. cool

Offline

#33 2013-08-13 22:57:14

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: V-Ger
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,165
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

@ ohyran

It's all my fault, I confess it

There, now I feel a whole lot better

I hope Luna Elementary does well and finds a community that appreciates and supports it


VSIDO | Words That Build Or Destroy

I dev VSIDO

Offline

#34 2013-08-14 00:22:51

dkeg
#! Die Hard
From: Mid-Atlantic Grill
Registered: 2011-12-05
Posts: 727

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

the beauty of choice and linux.  If it fits your needs, use it and enjoy it.  Having checked out their G+ community, certainly have a following.  There is also a very active mod in there offering help when needed.  The community seems very helpful and friendly.  And as Unia pointed out, kudos to them for sticking to it. 

You like what you like.  Past that it really doesn't matter.


grill it | the rocky path may just be the best path

Offline

#35 2013-08-14 01:18:37

Carvool
Member
From: El Paso, Texas
Registered: 2012-11-03
Posts: 23

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

It IS a damn pretty-looking OS. It has a nice clean interface, and not too bad when it comes to performance either, apparently. It's certainly not what I look for in an operating system, but you could definitely do worse.

Maybe I might recommend it to somebody else in the future.


Name's vool. Carvool.

Offline

#36 2013-08-14 06:27:16

ohyran
#! Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2013-05-31
Posts: 80
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

@pvsage its just that I'm tired of getting similar things from Ubuntu people about Debian or Crunchbang. Same thing from Mint people about pure Ubuntu and exactly the same from Arch people concerning Manjaro and vice versa. On and on and on and on and always with that "höhö its just a joke c'mon". Its such passive-aggressive nonsense and the last we thing we need (I say "we" in that very loose sense of the word since I mean "everyone using Linux").


>>>I draw pretty pictures for a living!<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>#! Animal<<<<<<<<<<<<

Offline

#37 2013-08-14 06:44:04

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

I see a new donation catastrophe is in the making.

Offline

#38 2013-08-14 07:40:36

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,207

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

@ohyran
Everything in my little skit was done in jest.
The bits about licking buttons and donations are true, however. I've seen them trying to sell that idea on their old site.

Fwiw, whenever I hear someone saying "it was a big inspiration but not the main idea", I quickly recall press conferences by high-profile athletes or managers that have just switched teams/organizations. They always say "it was never about the money" which convinces absolutely no one.

Last edited by gutterslob (2013-08-14 14:07:32)


Point & Squirt

Offline

#39 2013-08-14 18:33:17

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

NewCityVegas wrote:
brontosaurusrex wrote:

p.s. I'd change a thread title ...

The thread title is just fine.

I will note that I find Fanbois, whether Apple, Windoze, or even CB to be boringly predictable and quite similar.

Thanks for your opinion.

I hope i'am not being called a fanboy? (Especially considering your pompous title of this thread, that would not make any sense ... )
btw; I do hate almost every OS with almost exactly equal passion, however Luna gets some special bonus points (in negative direction).

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2013-08-14 18:33:56)

Offline

#40 2013-08-14 20:31:58

NewCityVegas
Resident Tech Reporter
From: ANTI-CENSORSHIP
Registered: 2008-12-02
Posts: 628
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

brontosaurusrex wrote:

... considering your pompous title of this thread ...

Yo, Fanboy. Stop being such an ass ... the thread title is FACT, not pompous ...

A lot of folks have been waiting for a long time for this distro release.

That FACT has been mentioned frequently in reviews, etc.

Last edited by NewCityVegas (2013-08-14 20:32:56)


============= You are the dreamer - and the dream =============

gooplusplus.com (goo++) --- compact web tools and 250+ internet radio stations

Offline

#41 2013-08-14 20:33:30

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,984

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

Q: What's brown and sticky?


A: A stick!!!


/hugged

Offline

#42 2013-08-14 20:38:20

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 3,207

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

NewCityVegas wrote:

Yo, Fanboy.

le sigh....

NewCityVegas wrote:

I will note that I find Fanbois, whether Apple, Windoze, or even CB to be boringly predictable and quite similar.

Pot, meet kettle.

Last edited by gutterslob (2013-08-14 21:02:45)


Point & Squirt

Offline

#43 2013-08-14 20:44:21

NewCityVegas
Resident Tech Reporter
From: ANTI-CENSORSHIP
Registered: 2008-12-02
Posts: 628
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

gutterslob wrote:

Pot, met kettle.

... and erroneous ... I'm typing from Win7 right now. roll


============= You are the dreamer - and the dream =============

gooplusplus.com (goo++) --- compact web tools and 250+ internet radio stations

Offline

#44 2013-08-14 20:54:39

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

@snowpine:  Thank you; this is exactly the most appropriate response for the turn this thread has taken.

@NewCityVegas:  I have to admit, I tend to read a lot of fanfare into headlines that begin with phrases like "Long awaited".  I Don't really see any need to change it though.

Offline

#45 2013-08-15 02:33:12

jed
#! CrunchBanger
From: Detachment 7
Registered: 2012-08-28
Posts: 200
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

OK, first, this is the Crunchbang forum.  Yes this is an Off-Topic thread and I understand the 'need' of boys/girls (i.e. NewCityVegas, Unia...) to be pompous, arrogant, and generally disagreeable when they talk about other distro's!

Second, in the last year, just in case Philip hasn't noticed, this forum has degenerated into such petty, harping, and hateful vitriol, that I personally rarely come around anymore.  Some of you are just plain ole intolerable and rather than listen/read some of the stuff you rant about, I'd rather stick my hand in a blender.  The whole idea of Linux in general is the antithesis of what this forum has become.  The saddest part of all is that Philip has created a great distro here, and at one time, this was the friendliest and most informative Linux forum around.  Sadly that is no longer the case.

Third, Linux is about choice as someone here already pointed out.  As users of #!, a lot of the users here are well past the intermediate understanding of Linux and how it works.  Thus, the laughable statement about the "greatness" of eOS is just that; laughable!  It is self-evident in the title; Elementary.  As it is based on the 'buntu bunch's distro, and IMO, it can barely be called it's own distro.  It looks like a distro designed with mostly children in mind!  'Facepalm', I'm an old man (47) and a former network engineer for UPS who just realized that in the past year, children must have taken over the Crunchbang forums.

Fourth, and lastly, the need of some of you to speak down to others and be so arrogant and pompous (speaking directly here, the BBQ bunch that has split off from Crunchbang and created their own 'offensive' little group) is seriously hurting Crunchbang!  I wish Mr. Newborough would officially step in here and use a very large axe to rid this place of some of the detritus of the Linux community and bring these forums back to what they once were.  I've worked very hard in the past year helping a certain distro with "testing", and I am literally staggered by the amount of work it takes to make a successful Linux distro.  My apologies to corenominal for this rant, but I've been holding it in long enough!  After all the work you've done Philip, please don't let this place sink any further...

PS, this isn't off topic as in the third paragraph I point out the ludicrous assumption (IMO) about the "greatness of eOS".   cool

Also, and for the record, I downloaded and installed eOS before I posted this.  So, yes I can say what I did in this post with the certain knowledge that of all the Linux distro's I've used since 1996, the "Elementary" in eOS is the perfect descriptor for it.  Definitely recommendable to any 'Elementary' school age child!

Last edited by jed (2013-08-15 03:31:15)


Proud user of VSDIO: Jedi!  You can download it from here...  I'm on  the web at NixNut.com!

Offline

#46 2013-08-15 03:31:30

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,984

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

So a pirate walks into a bar, and he's got a steering wheel sticking out of his pants.... and the bartender says "why the long face?"


/hugged

Offline

#47 2013-08-15 03:58:20

Carvool
Member
From: El Paso, Texas
Registered: 2012-11-03
Posts: 23

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

jed wrote:

Third, Linux is about choice as someone here already pointed out.  As users of #!, a lot of the users here are well past the intermediate understanding of Linux and how it works.  Thus, the laughable statement about the "greatness" of eOS is just that; laughable!  It is self-evident in the title; Elementary.  As it is based on the 'buntu bunch's distro, and IMO, it can barely be called it's own distro.  It looks like a distro designed with mostly children in mind!  'Facepalm'

Way to scorn the argument as a whole and then immediately contribute to it.

You were almost onto something here. Linux IS about choice, but you don't seem to be listening to what you yourself are saying. It's simply not fair for you to scold Elementary just because it doesn't suit you. Elementary simply another choice! This distro has its niche and you are decidedly not part of it. A simple 'I tried it out, it wasn't for me, not very configurable etc etc' would have sufficed rather than a 'this distro sucks it's for dumb kids'.

You speak of children taking over the forums, but you're missing the larger point of it. It's people doing exactly what you're doing here -- being close-minded, immature, and stuck-up. It's ridiculous that there's even an argument of this nature in such a simple topic.


Name's vool. Carvool.

Offline

#48 2013-08-15 04:20:24

jed
#! CrunchBanger
From: Detachment 7
Registered: 2012-08-28
Posts: 200
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

Carvool wrote:

You speak of children taking over the forums, but you're missing the larger point of it. It's people doing exactly what you're doing here -- being close-minded, immature, and stuck-up. It's ridiculous that there's even an argument of this nature in such a simple topic.

My apologies if you thought the post was offensive!  There is no "scolding" of eOS in my post, just simply observing that ironically their naming of the distro fit how it felt/looked to me, and that they've decided to take user configuration out of the equation.  Indeed, my post clearly says I recommend the eOS distro for "Elementary" age school children!

My analogy of "children taking over" was a simple observation as to the degeneration of the overall posting on Crunchbang forums.  Not just this thread.  (although it is a good example)

Around August of last year things started going South here.  I'm not the only one to observe or post on this.  As to me being "immature, close-minded, or stuck-up" I am none of the aforementioned.  I'm just a dick!  Period.  I'm not a people person.  However, after the last year of watching this forum degenerate into what it has become, I simply had had enough and decided to "rant" a bit.  I miss the Crunchbang of old, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that assessment!  Look at any post I've ever made here and show me one instance of me being patronizing, overbearing, arrogant, pompous, or just an ass as some here have sadly become.  That was the intent of my post.  To point out the degenerative direction the forums here, in general, have taken.

As to eOS, I stand by what I said.  It is my "opinion" which is what everyone here has been posting, (their opinion about eOS) and I clearly state it, as a response to the thread title and other posts made here about it.  Elementary OS is simply Ubuntu "dumbed down", if that is even possible.

Further, I never said anything about "dumb children"!  (well, except maybe the ones who seem to be in charge here now...)

You clearly missed the "larger point" I was making about the forums, and not eOS...

Last edited by jed (2013-08-15 04:38:25)


Proud user of VSDIO: Jedi!  You can download it from here...  I'm on  the web at NixNut.com!

Offline

#49 2013-08-15 05:42:16

omns
#! wanderer
From: ~/
Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 5,131

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

jed wrote:

Around August of last year things started going South here.  I'm not the only one to observe or post on this.

Well, I would still defend all the actions taken to reign in what was already a problem and of course not allowing an unruly mod from causing further damage to the forums. As one of the first members of this forum it saddens me beyond belief to see the direction these forums have taken after working hard for several years with a wonderful team to make it such a special place.

It could be that again, you just have to choose to make it so.

jed wrote:

However, after the last year of watching this forum degenerate into what it has become, I simply had had enough and decided to "rant" a bit.

I can relate to that and after watching for a week or two decided to chime in here to comment on what I was observing. In seems to have brought out the best in everyone and highlights the problems that have developed.

jed wrote:

I miss the Crunchbang of old, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that assessment!

I would like to apologise to everyone for the hand I played in this thread. I didn't realise the problem was so out of hand so will retreat back in the wilderness where I came from. That undoubtedly will make several people happy.

I wish you all well with your future endeavours and hope things can get back on track. I have great faith that it can if you put your collective minds to it.

Philip, sorry buddy, I shouldn't have butted in and caused a problem here sad I'm a little naive about these sorts of things at times...

Offline

Be excellent to each other!

#50 2013-08-15 06:09:35

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: Long awaited Elementary Luna release date August 10

Yep, I think this thread has strayed (and deteriorated) far enough from its original premise to warrant closure.

/closed


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB

Copyright © 2012 CrunchBang Linux.
Proudly powered by Debian. Hosted by Linode.
Debian is a registered trademark of Software in the Public Interest, Inc.
Server: acrobat

Debian Logo