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#26 2015-02-17 18:41:46

cao
Member
From: CT, USA
Registered: 2015-02-14
Posts: 14

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Unia wrote:

^ Pvsage and others have stated that we will not support anything that requires its own repository. We'll have to see how to go about this, in due time. I'm thinking a script that locally builds and installs .debs, or something.

Okay thanks, I did not see this thread. I assumed the deb sources would be stored on github with everything else.

John Raff's 'Wally' seems to be moving along. At the moment, he wgets corenomial's debs and creates a local package repository. There are some issues with some install scripts failing silently at having to reference the unsigned package repository.

Is this perhaps a good time to start thinking about the details of the proposed deb generator script(s)? Are there any successful examples of this approach being used elsewhere? What is the advantage of it being generated from a script rather than simply pulled in as a static file? Is it the ability to dynamically customize the install?

Apologies if these are dumb or premature questions.

Best,

Chuck

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Be excellent to each other!

#27 2015-02-17 19:44:54

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

cao wrote:
Unia wrote:

Okay thanks, I did not see this thread. I assumed the deb sources would be stored on github with everything else.

GitHub is not really the place to host such things. Our repositories contain everything needed to create a .deb package, however.

/quote=cao]John Raff's 'Wally' seems to be moving along. At the moment, he wgets corenomial's debs and creates a local package repository. There are some issues with some install scripts failing silently at having to reference the unsigned package repository.

John has just today pushed most of the Wally configs and scripts to the GitHub repositories. It is meant as a base for you all to get started on providing feedback, suggestions and contributions. Go have a look if you haven't already big_smile

cao wrote:

Is this perhaps a good time to start thinking about the details of the proposed deb generator script(s)? Are there any successful examples of this approach being used elsewhere? What is the advantage of it being generated from a script rather than simply pulled in as a static file? Is it the ability to dynamically customize the install?

Sure, go ahead and get something going! If it turns out good we can put it up in the installscripts repository, for others to see and hack on! John has a small howto in his Wally thread on building .debs locally: http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic. … 16#p418416 There is not really an advantage in using scripts, but as I said Pvsage and others have stated they don't feel like operating a repository. If I'm not mistaken, the amount of packages we are going to provide is so minimal that this shouldn't even be necessary.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#28 2015-02-17 21:43:19

Naik
#! Die Hard
From: Leipzig
Registered: 2012-11-16
Posts: 595

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Great work so far!
I step in line for a place in the artwork-team, but it will take a while to adopt the bunsen-labs setting and get stuff going.
Thanks for bringing this up and keeping this great community alive!

naik --greetz


*kaum macht man es richtig, funktioniert es sofort*

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#29 2015-02-17 22:35:32

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

A reminder to those wanting access: PM me or another moderator your GitHub username smile


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#30 2015-02-17 22:55:53

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Unia wrote:

^ Pvsage and others have stated that we will not support anything that requires its own repository. We'll have to see how to go about this, in due time. I'm thinking a script that locally builds and installs .debs, or something.

My position on this has relaxed a bit since I made that post.  I was thinking more of BunsenLabs being its own DE like LXDE, but with pre-existing libraries, daemons etc. and a handful of Openbox scripts rather than a set of Bunsen-specific lib* packages like there are in LXDE...basically just another DE available in the vanilla Debian repos.  If the general consensus in the community it to have BunsenLabs be a separate distro as CrunchBang has been, then a separate repository will probably be necessary.  At any rate, it looks like a PPA (Debian codenames, e.g. jessie, stretch, buster, sid, stable, testing, unstable - no Ubuntu unless we decide at some point to invite them to the party) may be the way to go in the near future.

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#31 2015-02-18 00:14:06

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

sysaxed wrote:
johnraff wrote:

*) A store of ideas and record of what things have been done, mainly for developers - perhaps on the docs repo wiki?

No. That's why we have "Issues". Closed issues - stuff that has been done (or was rejected). Open issues are ideas.
Duplicating this is not a good idea. You can even mark issues with different tags if you want to have more groups.

OK, so what should be going in each repo's wiki?


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#32 2015-02-18 02:22:53

orionthehunter
#! Constellation
From: Japan
Registered: 2011-04-09
Posts: 967
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

So just for clarification, and correct me if I'm wrong: The development goal with BunsenLabs is to create a series of scripts and configs that pull directly from Debian repos and set-up a #! like system during net-install? So someone would be making install .iso's right?

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#33 2015-02-18 04:19:27

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

@orionthehunter:  I'd count on seeing Live ISOs similar to those that exist for Wheezy & Waldorf. smile  No timetable is set for them to be available of course, as we don't want to push out anything of inferior quality; most likely you'll be able to track our progress in any thread that mentions BunsenLabs and/or Wally.

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#34 2015-02-18 10:36:51

DapperMe17
#! CrunchBanger
From: Todd's Gang
Registered: 2012-10-19
Posts: 221

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Perhaps a LXDE, etc., spin is possible as Pvsage mentioned.

An easier DE enviromnent/install for those with less tech savvy.

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#35 2015-02-18 12:16:43

cao
Member
From: CT, USA
Registered: 2015-02-14
Posts: 14

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

pvsage wrote:
Unia wrote:

^ Pvsage and others have stated that we will not support anything that requires its own repository. We'll have to see how to go about this, in due time. I'm thinking a script that locally builds and installs .debs, or something.

My position on this has relaxed a bit since I made that post.  I was thinking more of BunsenLabs being its own DE like LXDE, but with pre-existing libraries, daemons etc. and a handful of Openbox scripts rather than a set of Bunsen-specific lib* packages like there are in LXDE...basically just another DE available in the vanilla Debian repos.  If the general consensus in the community it to have BunsenLabs be a separate distro as CrunchBang has been, then a separate repository will probably be necessary.  At any rate, it looks like a PPA (Debian codenames, e.g. jessie, stretch, buster, sid, stable, testing, unstable - no Ubuntu unless we decide at some point to invite them to the party) may be the way to go in the near future.

I guess I was assuming a PPA would be involved. Which leads me back to my original question about .deb files. I am trying to wrap my head around the suggestion of replacing .deb functionality with scripts. If you trace that approach to its end, you end up basically duplicating the functionality already provided by the existing package facilities. And these scripts still have to be distributed from somewhere, so I guess I am wondering, what is the advantage to not using existing the package facilities?

@pvsage When you use the term "DE", are you referring to Bunsen being distributed as a "Desktop Task" option on the Debian installer? This seems like the most reasonable approach with the least overhead, and I believe is what Philip was referring to in his Post regarding using vanilla Debian. The only immediate advantage I can see to a doing a full distribution is the ability to include non-free software on the ISO.

EDIT

pvsage wrote:

I'd count on seeing Live ISOs similar to those that exist for Wheezy & Waldorf.

Okay, just read that post. So you would not need a PPA if you are only doing an ISO distribution. Got it.

Best,

Chuck

Last edited by cao (2015-02-18 12:21:14)

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#36 2015-02-18 12:50:06

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

cao wrote:
pvsage wrote:

I'd count on seeing Live ISOs similar to those that exist for Wheezy & Waldorf.

Okay, just read that post. So you would not need a PPA if you are only doing an ISO distribution. Got it.

Best,

Chuck

Probably gonna be both until/unless we manage to get a .deb into Debian.  From what I hear of their package endorsement/acceptance policy, I'd be surprised to see anything of ours make it into Stretch.

Speaking of hard lines, I think I might have found another one to stand on.  Do we have any binaries in CrunchBang Waldorf (other than the kernel of course) that aren't available in the various ARM builds and/or can't be run with multiarch support on ARM?  A lot of cheap ARMbooks, πs, bones getting onto the market the last few years; would be nice if any .debs we come up with are as platform-agnostic as possible so all possible Debian users can benefit from BunsenLabs (and of course participate in the PopCon 8o ).  I mean, I just grabbed an ARMbook from @m@zon for $50...

Last edited by pvsage (2015-02-18 12:51:21)

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#37 2015-02-18 15:42:06

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Unia wrote:

If you send your GitHub username to one of the moderators, we will add you to the Artwork Team!

Done, and a PM sent to damo, I'm hoping he and I can co-lead this team.

Is someone beginning to migrate the Bunsen-related threads to the virginal new forum section that I wanted post all over but was a good boy instead, or will we just start adding new content there?


bunsenlabs     8)     forum mod squad

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#38 2015-02-18 16:55:28

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Forum cleanup will happen, we're all just preoccupied with other things now. Be the bad boy and get going, you know you want to ]:D


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#39 2015-02-18 18:27:15

sysaxed
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-25
Posts: 77

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

johnraff wrote:
sysaxed wrote:
johnraff wrote:

*) A store of ideas and record of what things have been done, mainly for developers - perhaps on the docs repo wiki?

No. That's why we have "Issues". Closed issues - stuff that has been done (or was rejected). Open issues are ideas.
Duplicating this is not a good idea. You can even mark issues with different tags if you want to have more groups.

OK, so what should be going in each repo's wiki?

Once again:
Change log = git history and closed issues,
Ideas = issues,
Repo documentation = wiki.
There goes everything associated with that repo -- how to compile, which conventions to use, tips and stuff like that. Usually that's not targeted at regular users, but people who want to contribute.

If you don't like the wiki approach, then you can disable the wiki in your repos and do everything in .md files. Keeping both is a bit weird (except for README.md, of course, which is required anyway).

But where goes general help information for regular users? Or step-by-step guides for doing common stuff? Well, usually that's not github. We can keep using forums, but forums are not editable by all (therefore this approach provokes staleness). Why not github? It is just not comfy enough, it was never meant to hold anything huge, it is not customizable. Also, it is not so easy to find (so you open BunsenLabs organization, find docs repo, click on wiki... not easy enough, although someone can buy a domain and redirect it smile )

http://crunchbanglinux.org/wiki/ comes to mind. Just revive it.

Last edited by sysaxed (2015-02-18 18:27:57)

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#40 2015-02-18 20:33:21

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

What general help do you need? I think most, if not all, documentation can be found straight from Debian. I guess we'll see in due time, let's first get something usable out before wondering about documentation and whatnot.


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#41 2015-02-19 08:00:34

Probe34
Member
Registered: 2012-09-25
Posts: 47

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Yeeeehaaaa!!

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#42 2015-02-19 20:26:28

seraphtrend
#! CrunchBanger
From: Florida
Registered: 2011-12-03
Posts: 100

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

And to think Phillip did all this on his own... This is truly one of the best communities I've seen in Linux. You folks don't know how releived I am, as a daily user of #!, to see the moderators and community members take the baton and continue the development of this fine distro. I raise my cup of expresso to you all.

I just whish I was learned in the arts of Linux coding and bash scripting or whatever it is you folks have studied to be able to do this kind of work.

Once again, thanks ALOT!

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#43 2015-02-20 08:29:06

tty-tourist
#! CrunchBangian
From: within the swirl
Registered: 2013-05-26
Posts: 281

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

I salute all of you who are moving ahead with BunsenLabs! I foresee great things ...

Maybe I will use this opportunity to finally get into git and see if I can contribute in some small way.

Meanwhile, I suggest the following disclaimer for the new distro:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
BunsenLabs could possibly make your computer BREAK BAD! Therefore BunsenLabs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

You know, an updated version of: "CrunchBang Linux could possibly make your computer go CRUNCH! BANG!" that's in keeping with the chemistry theme ...

Last edited by tty-tourist (2015-02-20 08:35:15)


"You're just a tourist with a typewriter." - Charlie Meadows, Barton Fink

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#44 2015-02-20 08:48:22

Mpok
Member
Registered: 2014-12-06
Posts: 28
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

I didn't understand the thing…
But if u have devs for the forum, tell them to contact me (on private messaging). We need them.

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#45 2015-02-20 10:22:14

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Mpok wrote:

I didn't understand the thing…
But if u have devs for the forum, tell them to contact me (on private messaging). We need them.

I don't understand this?


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#46 2015-02-20 11:52:25

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

^ I don't understand it either.

@Mpok:  Pretty much all development for BunsenLabs will occur here, on the forums, in full view of the public, "warts and all".

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#47 2015-02-20 22:31:37

photonucleon
Quantum Geek
From: Hogwarts
Registered: 2013-06-10
Posts: 952

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Wow. I leave the forums for a couple of days to concentrate on studying, and then I come back to this! Awesome! I'll see what I can contribute, though for now it's probably just this big_smile tongue


- Ai! Aníron Undómiel. -
- Some things are certain. -
- Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. -

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#48 2015-02-21 10:29:30

spacex
ew
From: Norway
Registered: 2015-01-17
Posts: 385
Website

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

pvsage wrote:

^ I don't understand it either.

@Mpok:  Pretty much all development for BunsenLabs will occur here, on the forums, in full view of the public, "warts and all".

Perhaps he's from Ben Youngs team and still think they get to highjack this community? lol


Regards,
spacex/ew
http://tweaklinux.org

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#49 2015-02-22 04:57:03

computermouth
Member
Registered: 2014-02-14
Posts: 18

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Unia wrote:

^ Pvsage and others have stated that we will not support anything that requires its own repository. We'll have to see how to go about this, in due time. I'm thinking a script that locally builds and installs .debs, or something.

From what I've learned over the past few weeks, I don't think there'd be any reason you couldn't do this. Updates might be a pickle. Smxi manages to do it. I've never done anything with cron jobs, but between that and what it looks like some of you are capable of with python, you might have a pretty ok time just poking out to a server to see if your github repos have changed, download the master zip and build from there?


Now powered by #!++, a #! revival project on Debian Jessie.

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Help fund CrunchBang, donate to the project!

#50 2015-02-22 12:47:19

PluckyJokerhead
New Member
Registered: 2014-12-29
Posts: 4

Re: A community continuation: BunsenLabs

Hey guys, I really hope this project kicks off well and initially evolves into a great distro in itself. I'm also really guilty that I haven't really done much in the forums since I joined, considering the fact that I've been running #! since my first post and will continue doing so. I also feel a little helpless, as I'd love to help out with this project but don't really know anything that could help. The other thing I realised when #! ended was this: why BunsenLabs at all? If #! is open source, which it is, can we not just continue #! ourselves? Surely it would be great! Anyway, Bunsen Labs seems to have had a great start, and I hope for the absolute best for the project. I'd also like to say that if anybody needs someone to, say, test builds or something, you might just be able to get in touch with me (although I can't really promise anything). Again, I hope this project goes wonderfully.  lol

Last edited by PluckyJokerhead (2015-02-22 12:49:11)


Goodbye Crunchbang, and hello Bunsen Labs! (Presuming it goes to plan).

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