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#101 2015-02-09 15:11:43

freistil
#! Member
Registered: 2014-12-16
Posts: 66

Re: The Beginning.

Good, so how and where do we start?

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#102 2015-02-09 15:23:20

tknomanzr
#! Die Hard
From: Heavener, OK
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 777

Re: The Beginning.

johnraff wrote:

Maybe before long we need to sketch out an outline of the different areas of the work that needs to be done.
For example:

*)CONTENT:
graphics
theming
fonts
configuration
menus
basic apps to build UI
'under the hood' stuff like pam, gvfs...

*)DELIVERY:
"how to" posts
scripts
metapackages
remastersys-type iso files
Debian custom installer isos
Above, also with live session

-----------------------

Then, some kind of roadmap: what goals need to be achieved in what order, and in what sort of timescale.

-----------------------

At the same time, dividing up the work to be done among people best able to handle it...

...plenty to think about... http://s21.postimg.org/afad38toj/crazy.gif

I agreee with this. It has all been alot to sort out in our individual minds. Once we get a roadmap I think things will start to move forward as we have some incredibly skilled folks here in all said departments.

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#103 2015-02-09 15:40:09

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: The Beginning.

hhh wrote:
pvsage wrote:

Posting from working session right now; still needs tweaking, but here's a scrot:
direct link

Dat so priddeh, I wish it was in the screenshot thread. Themes and icon set, please! I like the switch to the Joy wallpaper, feels more #!y.

The Joy, Lines, and Splatter wallpapers all come in two different varieties - the brighter blue you see in all the promotional work, and the darker blue you see there.

Icons are Moblin, which have been in Debian for some time; I've used them before, and like them with this gtk theme...which you should recognize, since it is one of yours, and unmodified from your latest upload. tongue  The Nightmare Openbox theme is one of the defaults available in Jessie LXDE; I just picked it because it's white on black and I felt lazy at that point.

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#104 2015-02-09 15:57:20

freistil
#! Member
Registered: 2014-12-16
Posts: 66

Re: The Beginning.

johnraff wrote:

Maybe before long we need to sketch out an outline of the different areas of the work that needs to be done.
For example:

*)CONTENT:
graphics
theming
fonts
configuration
menus
basic apps to build UI
'under the hood' stuff like pam, gvfs...

*)DELIVERY:
"how to" posts
scripts
metapackages
remastersys-type iso files
Debian custom installer isos
Above, also with live session

-----------------------

Then, some kind of roadmap: what goals need to be achieved in what order, and in what sort of timescale.

-----------------------

At the same time, dividing up the work to be done among people best able to handle it...

...plenty to think about... http://s21.postimg.org/afad38toj/crazy.gif


That's a good idea, so people who would like to join can read themselves into the topic they would like to help in.
For example: I would start working with comparing themes and write some scripts to include them in a basic Debian.
Anyone else up for help? Or want to work on different areas?

Remember, first goal is developing a script that creates a new Debian flavour. That might become a distro or not, depends on how far away we are from raw Debian (aka if it makes sense or just adds drops to the sea)

Last edited by freistil (2015-02-09 15:59:42)

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#105 2015-02-09 16:25:25

Snap
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2013-10-22
Posts: 567

Re: The Beginning.

IMHO, There's no actual need for isos or repos. An installer with the needed scripts and perhaps a deb (or a few of them) would be enough to turn Debian into the "next Crunchbang thing". Something more or less similar to what Evo/Lution does to Arch. This will keep maintenance and development simpler. No need to mantain repos and building packages for the whole thing. Just the tools to make it happen.

Last edited by Snap (2015-02-09 16:26:28)

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#106 2015-02-09 16:41:19

freistil
#! Member
Registered: 2014-12-16
Posts: 66

Re: The Beginning.

This would be the first step anyways. ISO just if this whole thing gets more and more complex.

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#107 2015-02-09 16:55:17

Time
#! Member
Registered: 2015-02-07
Posts: 95

Re: The Beginning.

tknomanzr wrote:

Based on my own experience and seeing the work that pvsage has done I feel like this is highly apropos

They should form a group and build a correct and well-working script (there are lots of promising prototypes here already!) that completely replicate an self-made #! from plain Debian Jessie netinst. That means self-made welcome-scripts, defined menus, a selection of applications that make sense on today's basis.

If it is possible to build a script that fires from the Debian netinst that allows us to cherry pick packages, then copy configs into their appropriate place, that would be highly useful.

I ended up going the Arch route and building Openbox up from the shell but I am sure that's not something that everyone would have the knowledge or time to fool with.

+ 1

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#108 2015-02-09 16:57:31

Time
#! Member
Registered: 2015-02-07
Posts: 95

Re: The Beginning.

johnraff wrote:

Maybe before long we need to sketch out an outline of the different areas of the work that needs to be done.
For example:

*)CONTENT:
graphics
theming
fonts
configuration
menus
basic apps to build UI
'under the hood' stuff like pam, gvfs...

*)DELIVERY:
"how to" posts
scripts
metapackages
remastersys-type iso files
Debian custom installer isos
Above, also with live session

-----------------------

Then, some kind of roadmap: what goals need to be achieved in what order, and in what sort of timescale.

-----------------------

At the same time, dividing up the work to be done among people best able to handle it...

...plenty to think about... http://s21.postimg.org/afad38toj/crazy.gif

+ 1

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#109 2015-02-09 17:07:44

Time
#! Member
Registered: 2015-02-07
Posts: 95

Re: The Beginning.

It is vital to compile and save the CrunchBang Linux experience.
And we need to think about how to improve it...

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#110 2015-02-09 20:13:31

photonucleon
Quantum Geek
From: Hogwarts
Registered: 2013-06-10
Posts: 952

Re: The Beginning.

So, here's a screenshot from what I'm currently building - just in the process of building up the Openbox menu now...

1423512603.png

What do you think? Conky coming soon!


- Ai! Aníron Undómiel. -
- Some things are certain. -
- Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. -

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#111 2015-02-09 20:29:48

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 5,434

Re: The Beginning.

@photonucleon

Good effort. Are you documenting your project?
At the very least, this whole situation will teach a lot of people how to build up or strip down an installation.

I see you are thinking of using Remastersys to remaster an iso. Don't forget you need to do a fix if you are using systemd.

Or you can use Refracta tools (which I think are being used by VSIDO, and maybe the LinuxBBQ guys). Refracta snapshot has also just been patched to be UEFI-aware.

(You probably know this already, but I thought I'd post the info for general consumption wink )


BunsenLabs Group on deviantArt
damo's gallery on deviantArt
Openbox themes
Forum Moderator smile

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#112 2015-02-09 20:34:05

photonucleon
Quantum Geek
From: Hogwarts
Registered: 2013-06-10
Posts: 952

Re: The Beginning.

damo wrote:

@photonucleon

Good effort. Are you documenting your project?
At the very least, this whole situation will teach a lot of people how to build up or strip down an installation.

I see you are thinking of using Remastersys to remaster an iso. Don't forget you need to do a fix if you are using systemd.

Or you can use Refracta tools (which I think are being used by VSIDO, and maybe the LinuxBBQ guys). Refracta snapshot has also just been patched to be UEFI-aware.

(You probably know this already, but I thought I'd post the info for general consumption wink )

Thanks! I actually haven't been documenting the process very well, as I didn't expect to get this far! However, I'll try and write up what I've done, as I think (or at least hope) that I'm past the difficult stage now...


- Ai! Aníron Undómiel. -
- Some things are certain. -
- Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. -

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#113 2015-02-09 20:40:14

boromeus
#! Junkie
From: BG (SRB)
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 313

Re: The Beginning.

Please try to document it! I would like to have a brief HOWTO. Although I'm now waiting for the alpha release of [whatever-name-we-choose] as well, it would be awesome to know where to start, should the above-mentioned release fails.

Thx in advance!

Last edited by boromeus (2015-02-09 20:52:03)

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#114 2015-02-09 20:43:40

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: The Beginning.

@damo:  I think that may be part of what corenominal meant when he said we'd "benefit from using vanilla Debian"; it will be good for us to stop leaning on him and CrutchBang (intentional misspelling).

@photonucleon: That's looking really good.

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#115 2015-02-09 20:46:00

photonucleon
Quantum Geek
From: Hogwarts
Registered: 2013-06-10
Posts: 952

Re: The Beginning.

@pvsage: Thanks big_smile

@boromeus: documentation attempt in progress! smile


- Ai! Aníron Undómiel. -
- Some things are certain. -
- Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. -

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#116 2015-02-09 21:10:43

Snap
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2013-10-22
Posts: 567

Re: The Beginning.

This is a little project I'm working on for some time. Never intended to go anywhere but my personal use. It's a stripped down SolydX install (xfce removed) currently tracking Jessie with added goodies from Vsido, Cruchbang (cb-hacks, theming and compton setup), Livarp and antiX. It has Fluxbox on top but it's easy to do the same thing with OpenBox and plain Debian instead of SolydXK. I can document what I did if there is some interest about it.

2015_02_09_1423515593_1915x1197_scrot.jpg

PS, I've failed with the folders. I'm getting gnome theme fallback icons instead of the grey Waldorf folders and mime icons. Sorting it out is one of the things in my todo list.

Last edited by Snap (2015-02-09 21:31:54)

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#117 2015-02-09 21:28:39

boromeus
#! Junkie
From: BG (SRB)
Registered: 2010-09-12
Posts: 313

Re: The Beginning.

Snap wrote:

I can document what I did if there is some interest about it.

Certainly! Please do that! Thank you in advance. (If I were you, I would open a separate thread with a title something like "How to emulate Crunchbang's behavior on other systems" so that many people could post similar HOWTO-s.)

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#118 2015-02-09 21:51:28

Snap
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2013-10-22
Posts: 567

Re: The Beginning.

Hmmm... I think it will be better trying "the real thing" from scratch. Debian Jessie with Openbox and then adding the hacks. I'll start tomorrow and report the progress.

BTW, Livarp has a great dmenu implementation (hope arpinux remains in). Also eol from the french Debian forum has a nice array of dmenu scripts and tweaks to make it really powerful.

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#119 2015-02-09 23:07:10

#!_828
#! Tinfoil Hat
From: Ohio, U. S. of A.
Registered: 2013-09-19
Posts: 1,244

Re: The Beginning.

This sounds like an answer to my prayers  big_smile I, for one, love #! as it is & would love to see it maintained & adapted for the future.
My biggest question is what do we have to work with? Aside from the distro itself, from what I understood of Corenominal's farewell, the forums/website & repos will be taken down at some point in the near future.

All this aside, while I'm not much of what you'd call an 'expert' (my most relevant skill as far as distro-building is a little C++) I'd still very much like to contribute in whatever capacity I can  smile


Those who would trade essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither
Member of the (Un)Official #! Emergency Tinfoil Hat Distribution Center
Emergency Tinfoil Hat Conky Alert System development team

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#120 2015-02-10 00:09:17

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: The Beginning.

iMBeCil wrote:

...

Disclaimer: this is simply my humble opinion. I'm not dev, probably won't be anyway (tester at most) ... so it is up to coordination group to define the direction new (re)spin will take.

I just want to break this out a bit- testing is *really* important so don't sell yourself short there. Tracking down whether a bug is local, upstream or global, re-creatable scenarios, filing meaningful reports and good communication with both the local group and upstreams are nothing to be underrated. smile

tl;dr that's really needed

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#121 2015-02-10 00:48:34

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: The Beginning.

@pvsage how about breaking your current project out into its own thread?
Maybe it will be easier for people to comment/help if each of the many postcrunch experiments that are now getting off the ground is kept a bit separate? Just a thought.

pvsage wrote:

Similar changes to ~/.config/openbox/rc.xml.  In a default LXDE install, Alt-F2 launches `lxpanelctl run`; since I hope to purge lxpanel, I'm installing gmrun and suckless-tools (for dmenu).  If rc.xml isn't picked up after renaming lxde.rc (so far it's being ignored), might have to do away with lxde altogether and go bare Openbox as Philip did.  (EDIT:  Looks like rc.xml is either derprecated or redundant in lxde, as lxde.xml serves similar functions.  Need to look at migrating many of the keyboard shortcuts to lxde.xml.)

openbox has an undocumented (as far as I know) option --config-file which will load an alternative to rc.xml This is what lxde have done, as you can see by checking the openbox command line in htop.

Once you've loaded a custom something.xml , that in turn can call an alternative to menu.xml
(That's what I did in that #!-XFCE hybrid thing.)
It lets you leave the default rc.xml and .menu.xml clean for people who might be running a plain openbox session as an alternative to the hacked-up version.


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#122 2015-02-10 06:19:47

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: The Beginning.

I'm starting to think bare Openbox might be the best way to go - login to bare Openbox, purge lxde, lxde-*, and task-lxde-desktop, then log back in again.  If it takes lxsession along with it - and I'm pretty sure it will - then that's a pity, because it really is convenient to have that "color picker thingy" for gtk2 applications, but lighter is better, and like I said, it doesn't affect gtk3 applications.

Still haven't had an opportunity to tweak my current install beyond what I posted yesterday; forum's been busy.

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#123 2015-02-10 06:49:56

Snap
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2013-10-22
Posts: 567

Re: The Beginning.

This might be useful.

http://bbs.archbang.org/viewtopic.php?id=2748

PS, Or anyone wanting to port the waldorf theme to GTK3 or even better making/choosing a theme with the needed options, Gtk2, Gtk3, OpenBox (and maybe Fluxbox too) so it fills all the gaps.

Last edited by Snap (2015-02-10 07:01:54)

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#124 2015-02-10 07:25:03

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2012-05-22
Posts: 2,205

Re: The Beginning.

i'm confused. i thought we are discussing the continuation of crunchbang? with a different name?

because in that case, i think the roadmap is pretty clear.

so why are we discussing desktop environments?
and why are we discussing gtk3 problems? unlike archbang, crunchbang uses gtk3 by default. it has to, because some of the apps it ships with depend on it (and no need to discuss petty details like lxappearance bugs at this point).
and wouldn't the resulting distro be based on the next debian stable? which, afaiu, can't be long now?

as i stated my opinion before, crunchbang rocks because it is immediately usable, yet configurable.
it's one of the few truly intermediate (in terms of the user's abilities) distros i know, and of those maybe the only truly minimal one.
it is humble, meaning that it does not reflect the developers notions of propagating their dream setup.
it is grey.
it is newb-friendly in a way that it helps newbs to take the first step towards self-governing their system.
(and in that, both lightweight apps like tint2 and heavyweights like network-manager and its graphical utilities are important)

isn't that the spirit we wish to continue?

ps: i'm sorry i didn't read all of the posts (so many have piled up in less than 24h), so i don't quite understand how this thread developed like that. maybe i'm just calling out to bring it back on track.

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Be excellent to each other!

#125 2015-02-10 07:57:56

Snap
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2013-10-22
Posts: 567

Re: The Beginning.

i'm confused. i thought we are discussing the continuation of crunchbang? with a different name?

Yes and no. We are moving from the current Crunchbang schem going to Vanilla Debian with OpenBox and certain configurations. Otherwise it would be easier. Just keeping the Crunchbang repos hosted anywhere else, update and rebuild the packages according to Jessie and keep going whenever Jessie is released. But that's what Corenominal asked not to do if I'm not wrong; Leaving Crunchbang behind and start a similar thing inspired on what #! Waldorf once was. If I understood it right, that's what pvsage is aiming for.

Last edited by Snap (2015-02-10 07:59:58)

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