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#126 2013-10-30 16:49:00

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,478
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

what happens in IRC - Stays in IRC.

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#127 2013-10-30 16:58:13

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

wuxmedia wrote:

what happens in IRC - Stays in IRC.

That. I've always seen IRC as a completely different beast. As far as I know, the regulars here are not as regular on IRC?


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#128 2013-10-30 17:03:56

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

^ This, and vice/versa.  Dizzie has made a few appearances here in the forum, but for the most part I only hear about him when IRC is mentioned here.

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#129 2013-10-30 20:22:37

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

You guys are great !

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#130 2013-10-31 00:15:07

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Linuxephus™ wrote:
lcafiero wrote:

Yawn. tl:dr.

I expected that very answer.
And in turn I offer this:
You are welcome for the individual who contacted Linode and enlightened them as to how to put an end to the DDOS Attack.

-With all due respect, Counsel has no further commentation.-

Too bad they have banned you. I get great pleasure by reading your posts, which are way above average and probably not understandable to everybody, and perhaps not even to some of the mods. I`m not at the IRC-channels, so I don`t know what`s going on there, but in here, I`ve seen nothing that should qualify a ban...

I would appreciate a explaniation from the mods to why you are banned, because it makes no sense to me. There has to be more to this case than we see. If it`s just caused by an argument with a mod at the irc-channel, then I find this very disturbing. I don`t like it all.


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#131 2013-10-31 00:27:01

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

pvsage wrote:

I'll second Larry's tl;dr, and add that your bloviating makes your posts especially difficult to understand.  If you could express yourself clearly and succinctly, it would help your case; prattling on like a junior Senator does not.

It shouldn`t be  a crime to be above average scholored and a bit more intelligent than the average joe. Heck, I thought Linux was full of people like this. Geeks and nerds with the brainpower to qualify for mensa-membership if they so wished. I know that linux more and more is targeted to the average pc-user, but I didn`t think that it would exclude the people I anticipated to meet in Linux.


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#132 2013-10-31 00:59:13

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

ew wrote:

It shouldn`t be  a crime to be above average scholored and a bit more intelligent than the average joe.

Sometimes intelligence lies in not displaying it that boldly.

Although I don't know what exactly is the story behind the ban I do have to admit that Linuxephus' posts are a pain to read (especially as a non-native English-speaker). Simply because they don't attempt to be good communication - as in successful transmission of information. Combining that with an affinity to blatancy isn't quite the best recipe to make friends.

Does this justify a ban? Maybe if one were to know the whole story.

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#133 2013-10-31 01:00:46

anonymous
The Mystery Member
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,419

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

ew wrote:

It shouldn`t be  a crime to be above average scholored and a bit more intelligent than the average joe.

Of course not. But having a modest attitude is appreciated.

Last edited by anonymous (2013-10-31 01:02:14)

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#134 2013-10-31 01:35:13

elias
Member
Registered: 2013-10-21
Posts: 31

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

A very small and lovely etiquette.
{)


vpcsb1c5e+chrunchbang+fglrx+intelhd+sid/unstable+liquorix-kernel --> working great, yesterday

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#135 2013-10-31 01:47:30

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

ew wrote:

...

I would appreciate a explaniation from the mods to why you are banned, because it makes no sense to me. There has to be more to this case than we see. If it`s just caused by an argument with a mod at the irc-channel, then I find this very disturbing. I don`t like it all.

I was the one who applied the ban, and yes, it is correct that there is more to the case than you see as it also involves private messaging (which at this point I'll follow the IRC precedent of "What happens in PM, stays in PM").

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#136 2013-10-31 01:51:36

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

If a modest attitude is required in order to not getting banned, then this is definately the strictest community in the entire world. A moderator can/should not be able to ban a member simply because he/she dislikes the user. There has to some neutral criterias.

Linuxephus isn`t that hard to read, even if I`m a non-english user myself. I don`t master the english language as he does, but you could say that I have the intellect to recognize it even trough the language-barrier. Should he hide it?


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#137 2013-10-31 02:03:54

anonymous
The Mystery Member
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,419

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

@ew - We don't know the exact reason for the ban. Please see chillicampari's post just prior to yours.

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#138 2013-10-31 02:04:45

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

chillicampari wrote:
ew wrote:

...

I would appreciate a explaniation from the mods to why you are banned, because it makes no sense to me. There has to be more to this case than we see. If it`s just caused by an argument with a mod at the irc-channel, then I find this very disturbing. I don`t like it all.

I was the one who applied the ban, and yes, it is correct that there is more to the case than you see as it also involves private messaging (which at this point I'll follow the IRC precedent of "What happens in PM, stays in PM").

Ok, that`s your explaniation. But I don`t know you, and therefore it doesn`t explain anything. For all I know, you could be extremely touchy, and even possibly misread Linuxephus. I have a hard time seeing what could cause a ban just because of an argument between a user and a mod. If what happens in a pm stays in a pm, then I would also claim that it doesn`t qualify as a reason to ban anyone. Because if he hasn`t threatened to fysically beat you up, or anything he can be charged of, then you should be able to take it.

A good moderator has to have thicker skin than most people, and must be able to face being insulted by pissed users in a heated moment. If you can not, then you probably not should be a mod. But that`s just my opinion. As I say, I don`t know you and therfore I`m not able to take your word for it. It would be interesting if someone from the irc-channel could tell us if his actions there was so bad that it should qualify as a reason to ban him.


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#139 2013-10-31 02:11:54

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

It has nothing to do with a modest/immodest attitude. It has nothing to do with the fact that he is verbose. It didn't even have to do with his arguably ridiculous claim that he had something to do with communicating on our behalf with Linode, especially when any interaction on the DDoS would be between Linode and corenominal, and only between Linode and corenominal.

When someone has a high degree of intelligence, he or she has a choice to use it positively or negatively. It's no secret that we prize those who make positive contributions and are helpful, and we invite those who refuse to be helpful to go elsewhere.

Regardless, the ban doesn't even have to do anything with that.

Linuxephus had exhibited behavior that conflicted with forum ettiquette on more than one occasion, publicly and privately, and earned a ban. That's pretty much it.


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

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#140 2013-10-31 02:15:52

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 2,728

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

It's not a case of like/dislike or having a "thin skin", ew. I don't take bans lightly. While I've been a moderator for a short while here, I've been a member of the community for several years and don't expect to get along with everyone at all times. This is normal. That said, the actual reason I banned them from the forum was due to a personal attack on another member and deliberately misleading information in private messaging regarding current events that did not check out with the facts.

Fair enough point of what happens in PM stays in PM and how that plays into the decision-making, so I've clarified my explanation. If you feel very strongly about the issue and my qualifications to moderate, please present your case for the rest of the staff to review. Thank you.

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#141 2013-10-31 02:16:35

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

anonymous wrote:

@ew - We don't know the exact reason for the ban. Please see chillicampari's post just prior to yours.

I see his post, but it doesn`t explain anything, as he doesn`t reveal what in the pm`s that he banned him for.


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#142 2013-10-31 02:30:33

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

chillicampari wrote:

It's not a case of like/dislike or having a "thin skin", ew. I don't take bans lightly. While I've been a moderator for a short while here, I've been a member of the community for several years and don't expect to get along with everyone at all times. This is normal. That said, the actual reason I banned them from the forum was due to a personal attack on another member and deliberately misleading information in private messaging regarding current events that did not check out with the facts.

Fair enough point of what happens in PM stays in PM and how that plays into the decision-making, so I've clarified my explanation. If you feel very strongly about the issue and my qualifications to moderate, please present your case for the rest of the staff to review. Thank you.

Better explaniation. But it`s possible to perceive an attack where no attack has been made. Personally I have been "attacked" hundreds of times on internet-forum, and one time a mod did like you, tried to protect me from being "attacked". But I told the mod straight. He had aaabsoultely no right to react on my behalf. As no mod should do. The mods should only react on behalf of someone else, if that someone has reported a insident, and thereby asked the mods to look into it.

Possibly this has happened here, I don`t know..., but this forum has to be carefull. It can become so nice that it`s dead boring and not interesting to anyone. Here are very little rant-threads and very little venting on the forum. Way to little for my taste. The forum is very nice, helpful and useful for linux-issues, but lets be honest, it isn`t fun or exciting, as nice never is either.


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#143 2013-10-31 02:33:42

anonymous
The Mystery Member
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,419

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

ew wrote:

Here are very little rant-threads and very little venting on the forum. Way to little for my taste.

FWIW we did have a rant thread once upon-a-time; however, after a while, omns (a former? mod) decided it was too negative and decided to close it.

Oh well such is life. I now post my grrrs over at the Arch Linux forums ]:D

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#144 2013-10-31 02:51:14

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,225
Website

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

ew wrote:

..., but this forum has to be carefull. It can become so nice that it`s dead boring and not interesting to anyone.

I would disagree. This forum is of interest to a lot of people. It's of interest to those who want to promote the distro, of interest to those who wish to help others use the distro effectively, as well as of interest to those who are seeking help for problems with the distro that may come up from time to time.

I don't think it's supposed to be here to entertain people. There's a plethora of other places, on-line and off, where you can do that.

ew wrote:

Here are very little rant-threads and very little venting on the forum. Way to little for my taste. The forum is very nice, helpful and useful for linux-issues, but lets be honest, it isn`t fun or exciting, as nice never is either.

Well, sorry you feel that way, ew, but again I think this forum provides a wide range of services, but entertainment isn't really one of them.


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

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#145 2013-10-31 12:08:25

dawiba
#! Member
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 91

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

.

Last edited by dawiba (2014-04-04 17:15:36)

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#146 2013-10-31 13:05:54

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

ew wrote:

Here are very little rant-threads and very little venting on the forum. Way to little for my taste. The forum is very nice, helpful and useful for linux-issues, but lets be honest, it isn`t fun or exciting, as nice never is either.

I've always wanted the CrunchBang forums to be like the Irish. Very friendly but with a sense of fun and if you mess with us we shoot your knees off (bang! crunch). That sort of thing.

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#147 2013-10-31 13:21:39

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

@ lcafiero

You disagree, and that`s fine. Because where everybody agrees, nobody is thinking. Actually you should worry when everybody agree with the staff, developers and or the mods. That would be a real bad sign. Because then the community would be filled with only "modest humble" people that excuse themselves for breathing, or stupid people unable to think for themselves. Nothing wrong with being either of the two, but it isn`t the followers that should "lead" the pack...

Anyway, perhaps this community isn`t for me. I more and more get that feeling. Sure, I can post a question about a linux-issue or help others with their linux-issues, and for that purpose the forum functions well. But for all other purposes it`s kind of redundant because of it`s policy and some of the staffs attitudes and perceptions in some issues.

As for being entertaining, I really think that even a linux-community should aspire to fill that part, because there are very few of us that only want to be serious and on topic. Then this would just be a simple Q&A-forum, and not the hangout for Crunchbangers that it should be. If we are going to spend our time here, we have to be able to entertain ourselves at the same time. Otherwise it`s boring, and who want that? Well, I guess there is always a few dry sticks that would enjoy that, but it would actually be much better to ban them...

Last edited by ew (2013-10-31 13:22:15)


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#148 2013-10-31 14:34:48

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

ew wrote:

@ lcafiero

Because then the community would be filled with only "modest humble" people that excuse themselves for breathing, or stupid people unable to think for themselves. Nothing wrong with being either of the two, but it isn`t the followers that should "lead" the pack...

Modesty doesn't equate to people being brainwashed fan-girls/boys. It simply means that you stick to a certain courtesy that comes along with public communication.

You should know from your experience here that arguments do take place all the time. If they get out of hand or a thread is going in circles a mod will intervene. And I very much appreciate that. Although I have - more than once - sat in front of my screen cursing the mods for closing down the threads that were the most interesting to me at that moment. ]:D But because I know that this is primarily a forum committed to a particular linux-distro I can accept that for the sake of the overall quality of the experience here.

ew wrote:

Anyway, perhaps this community isn`t for me. I more and more get that feeling. Sure, I can post a question about a linux-issue or help others with their linux-issues, and for that purpose the forum functions well. But for all other purposes it`s kind of redundant because of it`s policy and some of the staffs attitudes and perceptions in some issues.

Not trying to take sides here I think that you are making false assumptions here - or at least are jumping to conclusions.

You don't know what have been the contents of any private messaging that has been going on here - as you have already pointed out. So I think it would be fair to apply the benefit of a doubt to both sides:

Maybe Linuxephus was out of line - maybe a mod. We can't know that since the content of these messages is private - and should stay that way as far as I am concerned. In the case that Linuxephus overstepped a line you also wouldn't do him a favor if you wanted it to be disclosed and not having it disclosed also is a forum-policy which I find highly valuable. In this case it might bother you - but in another case you would totally agree that "what happens in PM should stay in PM". In that sense I find your reasoning kind of arbitrary...

You know the people who moderate the forums: I don't know if I overlooked someone there - it seems as if all of them have appeared in this thread and commented on the matter - and all of them basically agree with the protocol of events chillicampari has given. So you can ask yourself how trustworthy they are and how trustworthy Linuxephus has been. I am not saying that you should have a certain outcome to that thought-process - but it would be fair to consider that before accusing people of incompetence, inadequate sensitivity or spoiling the party.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-10-31 14:36:15)

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#149 2013-10-31 15:07:21

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

Regarding Linuxephus™'s ban:  It wasn't just his comments here, or in PM, or in the DDoS threads, or his rather condescending attitude toward chillicampari or his personal insults directed at lcafiero - it was the aggregate of his posts across many threads, and it did not happen without some debate amongst the moderators.  It also had nothing to do with his writing style, which smacked not of high intelligence but a massive ego, and which I found frightfully dull.  Suffice to say that we gave him many opportunities, dating back to before the DDoS attacks, to make nice.

I think sorcerer's_apprentice summed things up well in the post above, and thank him for the kind words.  I also think everyone has said their piece regarding this particular issue. cool

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Be excellent to each other!

#150 2013-10-31 17:07:36

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: How we moderate your forum - feedback encouraged

One thing that could be rethought is the need to close threads in the off-topic section for going off-topic. Perhaps given the nature of that section, threads there could be allowed to wander.

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