boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

sorcerer's_apprentice · 2013-03-29 23:38:57

el_koraco wrote:

Wow, this is like a watered down example of the Hitler principle.

What exactly do you mean?

VastOne · 2013-03-29 23:42:37

@ el-koraco, Indeed

From Digit to Shuttleworth to Hitler, how the hell did we get here?

VastOne · 2013-03-29 23:44:17

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

el_koraco wrote:
Wow, this is like a watered down example of the Hitler principle.
What exactly do you mean?

Godwins Law

sorcerer's_apprentice · 2013-03-29 23:51:13

VastOne wrote:

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:
el_koraco wrote:
Wow, this is like a watered down example of the Hitler principle.
What exactly do you mean?
Godwins Law

Well, I guess the difference between Hitler and a Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator for Life isn't that big...

But actually Hitler was loitering in this thread from the very beginning - if you take a look at the topic.

VastOne · 2013-03-29 23:54:17

Godwins Law has nothing to do with comparing anyone. It is simply a fact that eventually every Internet discussion over time has the capability of bringing up Hitler

sorcerer's_apprentice · 2013-03-29 23:57:19

VastOne wrote:

Godwins Law has nothing to do with comparing anyone. It is simply a fact that eventually every Internet discussion over time has the capability of bringing up Hitler

Yes, I got that. I just wanted to mention that when you name a thread "Yada yada fascist state" the way to Hitler isn't that long.

Eren · 2013-03-29 23:59:27

Remind me this, https://xkcd.com/261/

wuxmedia · 2013-03-30 00:04:27

@vastone - especially discussing fascism
@ sorceres app - indeed. (second point)
why doesn't anybody mention paul pot, stalin and err. (already done mussolini) ?
if one is bothered by a shopping lens one will choose to run hurd. and wget their webpages.

edit=damn fast typing quick replies

edit2 = damn that comic guy is a legend.

Last edited by wuxmedia (2013-03-30 00:12:03)

zalew · 2013-03-30 00:19:00

aaaand we got to hitler and a user named lenin saying that running a company is evil.

Last edited by zalew (2013-03-30 00:19:58)

gutterslob · 2013-03-30 01:28:31

Might as well chime/spam in before this thread goes the way of the carburettor.

VastOne wrote:

From Digit to Shuttleworth to Hitler, how the hell did we get here?

One runs his Gentoo the way he sees fit. The other runs his company the way he sees fit. The last one ran Germany the way he saw fit.
Really, there's a Hitler in all of us. I'm Hitler when it comes to maintaining my motorcycle. The geezer next door is Hitler when it comes to his bonsai plant. Jeff Beck is Hitler when it comes to production values.

I have nothing of worth to add to the actual topic of the thread, btw. I do sympathize with Digit, but at the same time I also see where the other commenters are coming from. But that's the internet for ya. People agree. People disagree. People agree to disagree. Butts get hurt. Sashay shante.

Last edited by gutterslob (2013-03-30 10:46:21)

sorcerer's_apprentice · 2013-03-30 01:37:02

gutterslob wrote:

Really, there's a Hitler in all of us.

+1

[video]http://youtu.be/u0TZd1ic7dw[/video]

zalew · 2013-03-30 02:29:10

pvsage · 2013-03-30 06:00:13

Thy thread amuseth us; we shall permit it to continue.

@lenin-bot: Thy response was perfectly appropriate for thy forum name; the Turing Test continues. ]:D Although, now I'm not sure if you're a bot or a dictionary. 8o

intoCB · 2013-03-30 06:00:57

Boycott Ubuntu? Whatever happened to simply not downloading it?

I think poorly written pseudo-journalistic sites like Muckware are doing a lot to wind up a well-meaning community about Ubuntu and to train them in the art of using apparently-meaningful-but-on-closer-inspection-meaningless cliches like "fanboy" (someone whose irrational appreciation of something offends your irrational disapproval of that thing), "polished" (a design you like - Unity is polished if you like it and buggy if you don't) or "bloated" (a design you don't like). I am really starting to worry about an increasingly consumer-minded FOSS community, whose primary concern seems to be to be able to stick their widgets where their ego tells them they should be stuck.

Red Hat avoids the fascism label by not running Fedora forums because they are actually "smart" and know what they're doing. They have to be for selling a branded Fedora 12 to companies as a sooper-dooper server/mainframe operating system for vast amounts of cash.

People think Mark Shuttleworth is motivated by money. This is wrong. Whatever it may be that motivates him, it surely isn't money. He had or has money, which he piled into Ubuntu. No, I think it's more the football club owner principle: Ubuntu is to Mark Shuttleworth what Chelsea Football Club is to Roman Abramovich. It's a way of raising status among his peers. How did Mark Shuttleworth make his money? Some security software I think but the fact that it's entirely unmemorable indicates that it is ultimately a worthless achievement i.e. in the sense that no one will remember him for it after his death.

People are right to ask for what they want in an OS but when people go on about where they can stick the Ubuntu launcher, I'm inclined to suggest "where the sun doesn't shine".

A former fellow-student died of cancer in the last fortnight. We were not close and so it would be wrong to appropriate his death as a personal tragedy. However, it did put certain things into perspective. Don't like Ubuntu? Use something else. Want a better forum? You're on it

---
tl;dr? meh

Last edited by intoCB (2013-03-30 06:03:53)

lcafiero · 2013-03-30 06:37:11

Rats. Late to the party.

el_koraco: Stallman has a raft of honorary doctorates from many universities. I think they're mostly, if not all, based in Europe and South America, but I'd have to check that on Wikipedia or some other source.

Also, as much as my reputation as an Ubuntu critic may precede me, I don't think that Mark Shuttleworth or the general Ubuntu community are fascists -- that's way too strong. Actually, Mark Shuttleworth is trying to make money -- and there's nothing wrong with that -- but one of the things I find objectionable to his way of doing things is that his "my-way-or-highway," top-down community philosphy flies in the face of the spirit of free/open source software, no matter how many books on community Jono Bacon wants to write. In fact, Shuttleworth was, and still is, completely disingenuous in his intentions, forming the distro originally with this rosy "Linux for human beings" kumbaya only to morph that into the Ubuntu OS that doesn't even have the courtesy to mention that it's Linux.

So if you want to participate in that community, that's your choice. I know a lot of people I consider friends who contribute code and such to Ubuntu and I respect their decision, despite the fact I know that their contributions would go upstream faster (if at all) if they were making the contributions with another distro community.

But boycott and fascists? Nah. Like intoCB said -- if you have a problem with the way they do things, just don't use it. Plain and simple.

el_koraco · 2013-03-30 06:54:48

lcafiero wrote:

Rats. Late to the party.
el_koraco: Stallman has a raft of honorary doctorates from many universities. I think they're mostly, if not all, based in Europe and South America, but I'd have to check that on Wikipedia or some other source.

Yeah, but you don't call a guy with honorary degrees Dr, unless he also has a real one.

lcafiero · 2013-03-30 17:46:47

^True, el_koraco. I would agree with that, and I don't call him Dr Stallman. I'm just bringing up why people do call him Dr. Stallman.

dura · 2013-03-30 17:53:41

I have a Ph.d so you can call me Dr. if you like.

iMBeCil · 2013-03-30 19:03:21

(never mind)

Last edited by iMBeCil (2013-03-30 19:04:14)

sorcerer's_apprentice · 2013-03-30 19:40:18

dura wrote:

I have a Ph.d so you can call me Dr. if you like.

I don't have a Ph.d but you can call me Dr. anyway.

DebianJoe · 2013-03-30 20:19:22

I've been had mixed feelings about this topic (or a variation of it) for quite some time. The pull from the FSF and Corporate-backed proprietaries is counter productive in both extremes. I've always respected RMS as a programmer, but think that his stance is so extreme as to really make forward progress of GNU/Linux as a whole very difficult. Assuming that someone has a piece of hardware which requires non-free modules to be loaded to function correctly, it's going to be a very hard sell to convince them that they cannot use something that they have already purchased.

On the flip side of that argument, there's Apple...

On the other hand, it's bad manners to pull a soapbox up into the Ubuntu user home base to preach against them.

lcafiero · 2013-03-30 21:15:24

DebianJoe wrote:

I've always respected RMS as a programmer, but think that his stance is so extreme as to really make forward progress of GNU/Linux as a whole very difficult. Assuming that someone has a piece of hardware which requires non-free modules to be loaded to function correctly, it's going to be a very hard sell to convince them that they cannot use something that they have already purchased.

Agreed. I had a chance to approach Stallman about this -- and in general, the FSF's dogmatic stance on non-free (even open source) software -- a few years ago when I arranged to have him speak at a community college where I was a computer science student. I had to drive him from Palo Alto to Santa Cruz, then take him back to San Francisco International Airport over the course of the weekend, so I had him in the car for about three hours total (which was an interesting few hours for me; for him, maybe not). I can say that Stallman is very likeable and engaging, but on the issue of free software he is a Taliban-caliber dogmatist who refuses to entertain any viewpoint other than his own. It's quite sad too because, to echo DebianJoe, for the great contributions he has made in the past, he and his most strident followers are now an anchor to the wider free/open source software progress, and the fact that they have systematically marginalized themselves is a tragedy.

DebianJoe wrote:

On the other hand, it's bad manners to pull a soapbox up into the Ubuntu user home base to preach against them.

Excellent point.

antiv0rtex · 2013-03-30 22:47:30

DebianJoe wrote:

I've been had mixed feelings about this topic (or a variation of it) for quite some time. The pull from the FSF and Corporate-backed proprietaries is counter productive in both extremes. I've always respected RMS as a programmer, but think that his stance is so extreme as to really make forward progress of GNU/Linux as a whole very difficult. Assuming that someone has a piece of hardware which requires non-free modules to be loaded to function correctly, it's going to be a very hard sell to convince them that they cannot use something that they have already purchased.
[snip]
it's bad manners to pull a soapbox up into the Ubuntu user home base to preach against them.

pretty much what you said.

pvsage · 2013-03-30 22:56:19

lcafiero wrote:

DebianJoe wrote:
On the other hand, it's bad manners to pull a soapbox up into the Ubuntu user home base to preach against them.
Excellent point.

Exactly what I was gonna say, Larry.

@Digit: You've been a free software evangelist for a while now. Surely this isn't the first time you've encountered resistance to your message within the Ubuntu camp? (IIRC, this isn't time you've expressed butthurt here...)

mynis01 · 2013-03-31 00:35:36

I don't use Ubuntu because I think it sucks. The moderators of the Ubuntu forums get to decide what goes on their forums and what doesn't. If they allowed absolute freedom of speech on their forums, you'd have people trading porn and selling drugs to each other. But where do you draw the line?

People usually go to a forum or blog looking to see certain types of content. I certainly don't come to the #! forums to read your spiteful drivel. The forums, presumably, should be used mostly to discuss crunchbang linux. And if I ever started a linux distro and hosted a forum for it, I wouldn't want to spend a single penny or use a single kilobyte to host you ranting about why you don't like my distro. When I go to the Ubuntu forums, it's usually because I'm looking for help with an Ubuntu box that I'm managing somewhere, and if they want to delete everyone's little idealogical debates so I don't have to sift through them, more power to them.

Last edited by mynis01 (2013-03-31 00:40:12)

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#26 2013-03-29 23:38:57

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#27 2013-03-29 23:42:37

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#28 2013-03-29 23:44:17

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#29 2013-03-29 23:51:13

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#30 2013-03-29 23:54:17

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#31 2013-03-29 23:57:19

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#32 2013-03-29 23:59:27

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#33 2013-03-30 00:04:27

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#34 2013-03-30 00:19:00

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#35 2013-03-30 01:28:31

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#36 2013-03-30 01:37:02

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#37 2013-03-30 02:29:10

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#38 2013-03-30 06:00:13

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#39 2013-03-30 06:00:57

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#40 2013-03-30 06:37:11

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#41 2013-03-30 06:54:48

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#42 2013-03-30 17:46:47

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#43 2013-03-30 17:53:41

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#44 2013-03-30 19:03:21

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#45 2013-03-30 19:40:18

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#46 2013-03-30 20:19:22

Re: boycott ubuntu, fascist state silences any presumed dissent.

#47 2013-03-30 21:15:24

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#48 2013-03-30 22:47:30

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#49 2013-03-30 22:56:19

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#50 2013-03-31 00:35:36

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