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#1 2013-03-16 09:00:50

apm
#! Junkie
From: loops and branches of reality
Registered: 2012-04-12
Posts: 328
Website

Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

all resolved now .

Last edited by apm (2013-03-16 15:46:39)


sometimes all you need is to face the worst fear you have and to overcome it.

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#2 2013-03-16 09:08:39

apm
#! Junkie
From: loops and branches of reality
Registered: 2012-04-12
Posts: 328
Website

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

;

Last edited by apm (2013-03-16 15:46:55)


sometimes all you need is to face the worst fear you have and to overcome it.

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#3 2013-03-16 09:15:36

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,478
Website

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

babble.

Last edited by wuxmedia (2013-03-16 18:35:35)

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#4 2013-03-16 09:16:39

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,478
Website

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

more babble.

Last edited by wuxmedia (2013-03-16 18:35:51)

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#5 2013-03-16 09:30:13

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

apm wrote:

my last session ended with me questioning the crap out of the therapist's own self worth and i made him cry

Go to a better therapist.

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#6 2013-03-16 09:39:05

Resident Bot
#! Die Hard
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2012-02-17
Posts: 638

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

babble,booble and bibble

Last edited by Resident Bot (2013-03-17 15:34:23)


Troll = not a fanatic
slave of #!  and arch

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#7 2013-03-16 11:50:36

Enigma
#! CrunchBanger
From: Sweden
Registered: 2012-12-11
Posts: 124

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

I've been bullied alot growing up, even at knife point by kids just 2 years older than me.
It resulted in me missing out in school, anger issues and criminal activities.
I never felt comfortable around other people and even today 20 years later i'm somewhat of a loner but as you grow up you learn to fight your problems in the right way and make the most out of your life.
Today i would say that i am a happy camper, ofcourse some things could be better but i like to think that it will in due time.


The beauty of living things is not the atoms that go into it,
but the way those atoms are put together.

Carl Sagan

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#8 2013-03-16 15:46:08

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

apm,

although it is nice to see that you actually trust this community to the point you're sharing these private thoughts - I would like to chime in here and leave my advice.

1) Please be careful writing about such violent acts as you did above on the internet. You are most probably not anonymous and should it happen that for any reason you do come into contact with law enforcement such statements could be used to profile you and to issue a more severe sentence.

2) Digging up your past may be useful for coping with life. But it may also be harmful. Please consider that the recurrence rate of people who have been exposed to psycho-therapy is actually higher than that of people who found a way to cope for themselves. This has several reasons which are openly discussed among scientists. One of them is the the idea that somehow - going back to Freud's theories - by exposing a person to their alleged child-hood traumas can help them overcome them.

While in theory this may sound like a worthwhile pursuit - in practice it turns out to cause more damage than good.

What do I want to get at with this? I also have been reading other recent posts of yours and to me it appears as if you were going through a personal crisis at the moment. If that were the case I would strongly advise against delving in past memories of despair and humiliation and rather try as hard as you can to give your present a new meaning.

These bullies still have power over you if you let them to - by acting out these brutal phantasies of yours. But in fact - no matter how horrifying your experiences were - these things are over and you are an adult now that has all life ahead of himself.

So, please reconsider the worth of pointlessly digging up hurt feelings. I can understand that in moments of despair we somewhat become addicted to our state of being and can't see a way out of this negativity. This is why we cling to emotional states that support these moods. Thus searching for all the bad things that have ever happened to us - or someone else.

But this is not the way to get out of this. You are not doing yourself a favor with this  - neither are you punishing your bullies with it. So that behavior is emotional totally understandable - but utterly pointless and self-defeating.

As long as there is nothing that you feel you have forgotten or suppressed that may be of grave importance for you today - there is no point of going back into your personal hell again and again.

Please try to consider these things as a past experience. These things are not you - nor your character - they can only do as much damage as you permit them to. A thing I don't have on my mind - is a thing that I don't care about. This is the way the brain works. Neuro-psychologists have been looking for the so-called unconscious now for decades and have not been able to model anything that would resemble it. It is most likely that such a thing: a storehouse that keeps all your emotions and helps them enact without you knowing - does not exist.

There is no need to be frightened of it - since it is only a theory which turned out to be false, most probably.

3) From my point of view you should get serious in doing something about your situation. If you feel strong enough you can do it on your own - if you don't you might want to consider looking for a competent therapist. (There are online-portals where people rank doctors and therapists. You might want to take a look at them to find out where to go to.)

If you want to do it on your own here are some things you might want to do:

- Socialize. Meet friends and family. Even if they get on your nerves at the beginning.

- Exercise. Go to a sports-club and go there regularly. I would recommend doing a martial-art that has knowledge about anger-management. Aikido would be the first choice. But anything traditional Asian will do as long as you find a trustworthy and honorable teacher.

- Read or be creative. Wrap your head around things in your present. Do something you like. And don't stop because your not feeling good. The brain needs to be boot-strapped out of its misery in order to enjoy things. This takes a little while. Usually around 4-6 weeks.

- Turn off the news. Don't concern yourself with violence and injustice for a while. You only have responsibility for things you can change: which is you and the people around you.

- If you can - start to meditate. Meditation has been proven again and again to facilitate a reduction of depressive symptoms and aids in relaxation. Jon Kabat-Zinn provides a no non-sense, scientific, medical approach to meditation without tinfoil-hats and gurus. Here's a Google Tech Talk with him about the methods he's been working with.

- If you haven't: Clean up your apartment and dress as if you actually liked yourself. Thinking bad about yourself is a vicious cycle that can be broken by such simple things. Any accomplishment - and be it a new haircut - can help with that.

- If you haven't got one: get a job. This helps drastically to increase your sense of belonging to society and helps recover self-esteem.

[Edit]

- Also for anger-management: Refrain from caffeine. If you need it drink green-tea but avoid coffee. Green-tea contains theanine which helps reduce stress. Also the caffeine is bound to tanning agents which leads to the caffeine being released into your organism less fast which again reduces negative side-effects of caffeine such as agitation, increased heart-beat and paranoia. Green-tea has also been found to reduce depressive symptoms.

- Reducing depressive symptoms: Get out of bed early. It has been proven that sleeping till noon drastically increases depressive moods.

[/Edit]

Well, obviously I am not your therapist - but I sense you need some help - or a kick in the butt. wink So, you might want to think about it. If not, that's fine, too. I hope I didn't intrude into your private space with what I wrote. I beg your pardon if you feel I did.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-16 16:12:51)

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#9 2013-03-16 15:50:21

dura
Bloated Gimp
From: interzone
Registered: 2012-09-15
Posts: 2,108

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Diddums. Get over yourself. Your original post talked about you making a therapist cry. That is bullying. I can remember someone said to me that bullying is a socialization process. It's bad, but it serves a social function. When you talk about ego and making people cry and that you feel better than people makes me think it's fine that you get bullied.

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#10 2013-03-16 15:50:48

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,634
Website

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

^ That has to be one of the best posts ever made on these boards. Kudos to you sorcerer!


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#11 2013-03-16 16:10:07

sevensage
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2012-11-10
Posts: 134

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

sorcerer's_apprentice very sound and heartfelt advice, apm hang in there brother.


dig +short txt crunchbang.wp.dg.cx

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#12 2013-03-16 16:26:15

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Thanks, Unia and sevensage.

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#13 2013-03-16 16:56:56

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Nice post sorcerer. Though one thing:

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

A thing I don't have on my mind - is a thing that I don't care about. This is the way the brain works. Neuro-psychologists have been looking for the so-called unconscious now for decades and have not been able to model anything that would resemble it. It is most likely that such a thing: a storehouse that keeps all your emotions and helps them enact without you knowing - does not exist.

I do agree with you on the whole Freudian approach, but I kinda doubt many serious therapists today are very much into Freudian psychoanalysis. I mean, it's mostly the New Agers and literary theorists who dwell on those things. Cognitive psychology looks at "the unconscious" as some set of built-in functions in the brain that help humans process information and respond to their surroundings with little actual thought to their actions. It's kinda like the low level kernel functions. They're never exposed to the userspace or actual programs, but they serve their purpose.

It's very possible that the brain can use these same mechanisms as defense in times of trouble, so concetrating therapy on those things isn't necessarily wrong. I mean, I'm not a trained psychologist or psychiatrist, but I don't think this whole thing should be looked at as a yes or no kind of thing.

Now, apm, seriously, if you feel so troubled by stuff, you should seek help. It can be friends, family, therapists, whatever. You should look at forums as a first step measure, because this is a very depersonalized world where anyone can write anything they want. Just the act of having someone listen to your problems and understand you can make a world of difference. Plus, all the things sorcerer mentioned, of course.

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#14 2013-03-16 17:39:05

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

el_koraco wrote:

Nice post sorcerer. Though one thing:

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

A thing I don't have on my mind - is a thing that I don't care about. This is the way the brain works. Neuro-psychologists have been looking for the so-called unconscious now for decades and have not been able to model anything that would resemble it. It is most likely that such a thing: a storehouse that keeps all your emotions and helps them enact without you knowing - does not exist.

I do agree with you on the whole Freudian approach, but I kinda doubt many serious therapists today are very much into Freudian psychoanalysis. I mean, it's mostly the New Agers and literary theorists who dwell on those things. Cognitive psychology looks at "the unconscious" as some set of built-in functions in the brain that help humans process information and respond to their surroundings with little actual thought to their actions. It's kinda like the low level kernel functions. They're never exposed to the userspace or actual programs, but they serve their purpose.

It's very possible that the brain can use these same mechanisms as defense in times of trouble, so concetrating therapy on those things isn't necessarily wrong. I mean, I'm not a trained psychologist or psychiatrist, but I don't think this whole thing should be looked at as a yes or no kind of thing.

el_koraco,

the debate about the unconscious is still ongoing. There is no definitive answer yet. Of course you are right: cognitive-behavioral therapy doesn't use Freud's model. But when you look at the therapy-market you see that there are still a lot of psychoanalysts out there and with them the so-called depth-psychology-therapies. Also, there is a huge difference between academic research in the area of cognitive-neuroscience and the actual implementation (if any) of these findings into a therapeutic setting.

The main problem though is that for one thing the public (or you could say [scientifically] psychologically uneducated public) still equals psychotherapy with psychoanalysis and thus attempts to solve personal problems with the same underlying model - leading to people talk about having to "come to terms with their suppressed unconscious memories" and stuff.

The public psychological model has nothing to do with what actually comprises modern psychological research. (I won't go into why this is so and what science would have to do to change that.) So, that's why I elaborated on this. I encounter this thinking often enough to know that someone without the necessary background knowledge will try to solve his/her problems by going down the road OP envisioned - abstractly speaking.

Now the thing with unconscious processes is that these are certainly present and active but that they have a much different role than what Freudian/psychoanalytic models suggest: They in fact resemble kernel processes which mainly have to do with attention, perception, bodily functions and emotional reactions. But there are not a dark basement in which all our "unresolved conflicts" lie.

Another thing is that the value of psychotherapy itself is highly questionable. As well the use of SSRIs. Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors - "antidepressant" drugs - that are often used as medical treatment along with psychotherapy. The scientific inquiry into the merits of psychotherapy have been going on for quite some time now. And the conclusions of almost any study or meta-study on the issue (as long as it has not been conducted by some psychoanalytic think-tank) is that psychotherapy - no matter of what denomination - fails to result to be any more helpful to patients than a mere placebo or no therapy at all. In a lot of cases it has even been shown to have adverse effects. Often enough coming from psychoanalysts who talk their patients into hallucinating some childhood-trauma that didn't happen.

I do have to add that the best results still are indeed reached by cognitive-behavioral therapy.

SSRIs on the other hand also have been proven to be no better than placebo while having diverse side-effects such as weight-gain or suicidal thoughts.

So I can't file a carte blanche for psychotherapy - although I do think it can help in emergency situations. But not because of the actual therapeutic model used - but because having someone who knows about the workings of the mind and who is compassionate has a very healing effect on people going through a crisis.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-16 17:44:43)

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#15 2013-03-16 18:22:05

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: V-Ger
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,165
Website

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

And here all I was worried about was 'are my hands too low on my golf swing?'

I must reevaluate my priorities


VSIDO | Words That Build Or Destroy

I dev VSIDO

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#16 2013-03-16 18:55:41

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

The main problem though is that for one thing the public (or you could say [scientifically] psychologically uneducated public) still equals psychotherapy with psychoanalysis and thus attempts to solve personal problems with the same underlying model - leading to people talk about having to "come to terms with their suppressed unconscious memories" and stuff.

The public psychological model has nothing to do with what actually comprises modern psychological research. (I won't go into why this is so and what science would have to do to change that.) So, that's why I elaborated on this. I encounter this thinking often enough to know that someone without the necessary background knowledge will try to solve his/her problems by going down the road OP envisioned - abstractly speaking.

Now the thing with unconscious processes is that these are certainly present and active but that they have a much different role than what Freudian/psychoanalytic models suggest: They in fact resemble kernel processes which mainly have to do with attention, perception, bodily functions and emotional reactions. But there are not a dark basement in which all our "unresolved conflicts" lie.

No argument there. It's a good idea not to go too deep into why the situation is as it is today, since it would derail the thread big time. As a parting note, when considering the writings of crazy old men in 19th century Wienna, I'm much more in agreement with Jung's notion of the self-healing properties of the "unconscious mind" than Freud's showdown with all the women who didn't let him have it.

Last edited by el_koraco (2013-03-16 18:56:45)

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#17 2013-03-16 19:02:39

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,412

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Yes and I was mugged later the same night. Since then, I have always endeavoured to be kind.

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#18 2013-03-16 20:38:17

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,643

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Personally i like to bully people that are trying to bully me or are bulling people next to me, sometimes just for sport so they don't forget who is is the ultimate bully. (But i'am huge, green and with purple dots, so i guess its easy for me...)

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2013-03-16 20:44:18)

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#19 2013-03-16 21:28:05

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

On a more serious note, and much closer to home, I must admit that I - and several other forum members here - bullied APM a bit when he first joined these forums.  For my part in that, I can only hope he accepts my heartfelt apology.  Thank you for sticking around in spite of the wrongs we caused back then.

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#20 2013-03-16 23:27:49

anonymous
The Mystery Member
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,419

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Whats with people posting then editing out their original replies? Sigh.

As for bullying others, I am guilty though my friends and I did get detention for it. Also the classmate we bullied eventually transferred. So uh, problem solved?

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#21 2013-03-16 23:39:33

hammy_283
#! Member
From: British Columbia, Canada
Registered: 2013-03-04
Posts: 62

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

I never really bully anyone, i was the guy who got picked on a little bit and even my brother picked on me a little else well. I try to be the nice guy who tries to get along with everybody. I still am like that.

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#22 2013-03-17 00:36:42

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Dammit! I miss out on all da good stuff !!!

On second thought nm ... Kinda lame to discuss.

Well other than keep your head up Apm. More or less a +1 Sevensage sentiments ...


Vll! smile

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2013-03-17 05:16:54)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#23 2013-03-17 07:03:05

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,478
Website

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

@anon - for my part, all the babble i had posted suddenly made no sense.
seemed like i was talking to myself anyway.

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#24 2013-03-17 10:19:29

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

pvsage wrote:

On a more serious note, and much closer to home, I must admit that I - and several other forum members here - bullied APM a bit when he first joined these forums.

That wasn't bullying, he was writing pure BS.

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#25 2013-03-17 11:02:01

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,865

Re: Did you bully someone at any point in your life ?

Feck it ... goes into cyberbully mode ... Yo mamma's so fat ... she has her own zipcode !!!

Being a dork o course. tongue No don't like fecking bullies ... edited out that have personally kicked da chit out of more than a few of da feckers ... Also edited out that personally regret ever having resorted to bullying others. Yo mamma is still so fat her waist size is equator though. tongue

Vll! smile

Ps. Guessing in bullying dept I have some sins to answer for. I regret those times ... but it doesn't make what I did right either. Feck it ... add it to all the other chit I have to answer for ...

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2013-03-17 11:29:37)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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