I have to agree with a few others that the small, simple, elegant and stable descriptors are the best part of CrunchBang. You will never please everyone with the default install, so why bloat it up trying? I love most of the stuff that I get in the default install, but I've added Rhythmbox, Firefox, Thunderbird, some emulation software, VirtualBox, Chrome, and the list goes on. I've also torn out some of the stuff Debian brings to the party, like the Ice twins.
That said, I also understand that newer underpinnings may cause some size problems. I don't have any issues with a DVD image, as I've been burning most images to DVD media for years now. CD's are more expensive in Canada thanks to our government's insistence on a "copyright levy" of 30 cents per disc. This makes your average $10 spindle of coasters cost $30. DVDs, on the other hand, are $10 for the fifty, no levy. Makes up your mind pretty fast, really.
I just don't think a "fat" CrunchBang image is necessary. It's your show of course.
~ Drewdle ~
Toshiba Satellite A200 - Pentium T2310 1.46Ghz / CrunchBang Waldorf
I still have cds for rejuvenating old computers, that are fun again to use thanks to crunchbang but that do not boot from usb. I havent tried booting from dvd on old laptops, since the cd-size limit was never exceeded - I came across quite a few lately.
wouldn't an old image with #! debian and dist-upgrade be about the same as installing new version? or do a welcome script that always gives you the latest #! no matter which live-cd you used.
eee701 user & other lap/desktops
@sunfizz: glad you picked up on that sneaky compliment
with machinebacon, it is Christmas all year 'round!
I've been tracking this thread with great interest over the last few days. From what I can see much of the feedback can be split into two main areas.
1. If going over 700mb there is a need/desire for a CrunchBang lite to replace it.
2. Recommendations for what to exclude from the image to make it lighter. i.e. remove gnumeric, abiword etc and put them into cb-welcome instead. That sort for thing.
I'll admit to being a bit of a devil's advocate in my comments about how many older machines forum members actually have that only boot from CD's and have been surprised by the number of replies.
In the spirit of devil's advocate I'll offer some similar feedback on the discussion so far.
Removal of packages - one of the great things about CrunchBang is the amount of drivers, codecs etc that it comes with out of the box. With that also comes a nice range of software to get things done along the lines of the 'one app for each purpose' approach. By removing some of those packages you essentially remove what CrunchBang is and strives to be. To me it is a one stop shop for simple solutions to a variety of needs. If it is no longer possible to do this within the confines of a CD image then so be it.
In that context we are then bought to the second main point being raised of a need for the resurrection of CrunchBang lite builds. These builds we're retired for good reason and I don't see the benefit for corenominal in reintroducing them. I'd rather see his efforts solely focused on making one CrunchBang image that is the best all round Linux distro out there in terms if it's philosophy.
With that in mind a community edition or other Debian build has been raised as the way to go. This is a great idea but I wonder if it would actually happen. As a community we tend to rely on the efforts of corenominal and have high expectations for him to meet our needs. If corenominal opens up sections of the project to community development I wonder if it really will be utilized by the community.
As an example I'd refer to the recent github account that was opened. I imagine that corenominal was testing the waters a bit to see how much interest there actually was in contributing to the design and development of the project. The invite to contribute to the cb-fortune script was a very simple one and a great way to see if there was any interest in community input for other projects.
So far the input from us into this little project has been virtually non-existent. There have been a few contributions and I'll admit that my own 3 weeks ago was mainly to test and see how it worked. I hope to contribute more but time, like it is for many of us, is difficult to find The original post was made around 6 weeks ago so I would be skeptical about our real commitment to making meaningful contributions to the project at this level. Ideas and suggestions are great but it's all to easy to be telling corenominal how to do things on one hand and not be prepared to put in some effort towards that on the other.
So as for the CrunchBang lite idea I'd suggest a coupe of things. If there is interest in this sort of thing then maybe someone should have a go at it If not then there are a multitude of solutions, scripts and ideas here on the forums for ways to create your own Debian lite build. If you have a CD drive and a connection then the world is your oyster In that context I don't see much need for a lite edition. What we've created here in terms of howtos and scripts to make your own lite builds is more than enough to keep the enthusiasts amongst us who maintain old machines happy.
Finally I'd close with the thought that we are a great community full of equally great and wonderful ideas. Amongst us we have some really talented and giving members who have developed and shared some excellent scripts, programs, artwork etc. Some of which have made their way into the distro. Compton is a great example of this as well as johnraff's various scripts that were taken on board and further refined.
Now all that said the purpose of this thread as I see it is to argue the merits or not of the main image going over 700mb or not. I didn't see a request for how the image should be put together or what to include or exclude but that may just be me over simplifying things.
Feel free to keep the discussion going and agree or disagree with anything I've said here. Mine is just one voice
^ Very offtopic: Yes yes, ignore the 'GOffice pipemenu' statement above. I got carried away while reading through the thread. However, I find the pipe-menus in #! excellent and they are quite unique in Linuxland. I wonder if people would find it disturbing if they could choose to install LibreOffice and/or Goffice through the pipe-menu. If the problem is just a handful of MB's (megabytes, not machinebacons) exceeding the 700MB limit, this could be an idea (!) Honestly, Abiword/Gnumeric is not exactly the very first software I run on a fresh install.
BTT: I have not installed from CD in recent years, a real distrohopper has a handful of USB sticks at hand
Last edited by machinebacon (2012-06-24 21:00:27)
stripping off useful programs would diminish the use of a live-cd . a live cd should give you a good and working system and all software you need for basic tasks, and this without having a connection for post-install-installs: stuff for writing letters, listening to music, browse the web, share data - i think software wise there is not much left that can be taken away without losing usablility.
Last edited by saneks (2012-06-24 21:34:40)
eee701 user & other lap/desktops
^perhaps, but then there was a lot of daemons added to waldorf of which I dare not mention. It has certainly became more useful than the prior release, but I'm not sure to which crowd/audience.