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#226 2012-09-13 18:58:45

ElQuia
#! CrunchBanger
From: Cordoba, Argentina
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 141

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

my 10 cents:

I would like to see #! in these 3 "flavors":

i486 CD only for old pc
i686 CD only for "less old" pc
amd64 full dvd for modern hardware and off line installations or usb installs..

BUT ALWAYS LEAN AND MEAN AS IT IS. CONGRATS FOR THAT :-)


*La vida no es esperar a que pase la tormenta, es aprender a bailar bajo la lluvia...
(Life is not waiting for the storm to pass, it's learning to dance under the rain...)

*Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back.

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#227 2012-09-13 19:21:14

No-Thing
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2012-09-11
Posts: 43

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Aloha loving Divine reader

As for me - just drop the 700 mb limit. We have DVD's and USB keys today - that replaces the CD.
Crunchbang is not primary made for old systems is it? If not, drop the 700 mb - only old systems don't have DVD drive and can't boot from an USB.
I am just thinking why use to much effort *time* in trying to keep it under 700 mb - needing both time and probably taking out something you wanted in there.

One of the things I like about Crunchbang is that it is minimalistic - so please just don't bloat Crunchbang if getting the MB to do it smile
One program to do one thing is more then enouge! Like if Crunchbang having Libre Office installed from start - remove gnumeric and abiword.

BTW if getting more MB - what about an mail client like Icedove?

That's my observing opinion - other observers may have another. smile

Thx for a wonder-full distro corenominal - I am still pretty new and still setting Crunchbang up, and getting used to it... But I am in love! smile

And one for them all, that makes one wink
Dear Divine reader - You are so beautyfull - I love you!

With love and gratitude -
No-Thing But Divine


With love and gratitude - No-Thing But Divine
I am an orphan, alone; nevertheless I am found everywhere. I am one, but opposed to myself. I am youth and an old man at one and the same time. In woods and mountains I roam, but I am hidden in the innermost soul of man. I am mortal for everyone, yet I am not touched by the cycle of the aeons.

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#228 2012-09-13 21:51:40

rstrcogburn
CrunchRanger
From: NM - The Land of Enchantment
Registered: 2010-06-12
Posts: 1,950
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

USB installation has been working good for me, it's so much more cost effective too cool


Pack em in snow!

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#229 2012-09-13 22:30:28

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

In terms of cost effectiveness, the last time I checked (a couple years ago) CDs weren't much less expensive than DVDs, so even if you're going to burn ISOs to distribute, the only compelling reason I see to maintain an ISO that fits within the 700MB limit is for older hardware that isn't capable of booting from USB or DVD.

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#230 2012-09-14 00:38:56

rstrcogburn
CrunchRanger
From: NM - The Land of Enchantment
Registered: 2010-06-12
Posts: 1,950
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

pvsage wrote:

In terms of cost effectiveness, the last time I checked (a couple years ago) CDs weren't much less expensive than DVDs, so even if you're going to burn ISOs to distribute, the only compelling reason I see to maintain an ISO that fits within the 700MB limit is for older hardware that isn't capable of booting from USB or DVD.

Good point on the price point between CD and DVD mediums.  For me USB is faster, so most cost effective.  Plus, I don't have to buy one since there are a couple on hand at all times.  They are renewable resources thanx to fdisk/parted-lib.  We seem very much in agreement then that the crux of the file limit is with older hardware, and not in the cost of purchasing or having install medium.


Pack em in snow!

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#231 2012-09-14 04:09:56

profoundWHALE
New Member
Registered: 2012-09-14
Posts: 9

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Hey! New guy here with words of opinion! big_smile
First off, I have VERY little experience with coding. I usually just search online for things, and copy SHIFT-Insert into the terminal when something is broken. Is it possible to include all of the versions, the 32-bit, and 64-bit (and maybe non-pae) support into one .iso file for usb?

   I find that #! is my favourite of the 3-4 linux OS I've tried so far. (And it has nothing to do with my love for the muppets...) It's simple, it looks good, and it's low resource. That's how I like it. The problem is, some old computers that I like breathing life into, can't boot USB from bios (or doesn't have a DVD tray). But! They run some version of windows (or other linux). Is it possible to make an installer that can run off of them to get a VERY basic operating system to boot into that then scans your USBs, CD/DVD drives and HDD for install data and then starts the graphical installer? I really don't know how it all works but it would helps the peoples who like simple and only do simple.

So, if you want to skim, I'm saying that larger sized ones for USB would be better if we didn't have like 5 different, same size versions for different computers that all basically have the same thing.


I vowed my life against Windows at Windows 8 and also when the WinFlash for bios, broke my bios. Never again. Well, I didn't really vow it. Besides, I also follow the rule: "Every other Windows" because Windows XP was good, and then Vista, bleh, and then Windows 7 was good- don't hurt me!

Anyways, as long as it stays #!, I'm sure everyone will be happy.

EDIT!

Awebb wrote:

How about a light crunchbang, like back in the day? 700mb "light" and all the good stuff 4,7GB max.

This would be good. Would the light then also be as fast/low resource as possible? I never actually installed one, so I don't exactly know.

EDIT AGAIN!
Okay, so I read through the topic and the issue of bandwidth came up. I have pretty crappy internet here, so I like to download 1 image so I don't have to download extra on every other computer I install it onto. I hated that with Ubuntu and the others. I install it, and it's like, "Hey, there's 3 hours worth of updates to download!" and since I want things to be up to date, I download them.

Also, the Community Lite version would be neat. I have no idea what to do or how to do it, but I'm sure that others would like that.
AND! Plop Boot Manager, because it would be nice to boot to usb for the systems that don't support it natively.

*whew* Another! xz compression ( 0, not the higher ones as there was little benefit to higher compression levels) should help bring things down.

Also, if GIMP must go, then it must go. Maybe smaller alternatives could be decided on?

Last edited by profoundWHALE (2012-09-14 05:44:20)

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#232 2012-09-14 10:54:13

precutcolours
New Member
Registered: 2012-09-14
Posts: 1

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Supporting third-world folk, I deal with older PCs that will not boot USB even with the ports. The BIOS won't do it. Yes, tricks are possible with "helper floppies" and all that bother. Explain the tricks to a Peace Corps volunteer or native lady's school kids. And people living on pennies can hardly even afford CDs let alone USB stuff. Ten dollars US is a huge amount of funds to many of them.

Please retain a CD. I do not come to CrunchBang for GNOME 3 bloatware. That belongs on a DVD. I want leanness. Me, I stick to GTK+ wherever I can.

For cramming, grml.org apparently does the most massive job of any live CD and also offers many sizes. They're Debian, so their build scripts may help you. I don't use it, but hear good things.

For powerful punch in small size, SliTaz is incredible. It might yield more ideas.

While I'm here I also wish you would disentangle from Debian cycles and go semi-rolling, but that's dreaming....

Thanks!

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#233 2012-09-22 08:18:32

Staim
New Member
Registered: 2012-08-30
Posts: 7

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

I wanted to install Waldorf to a laptop to replace Windowze. But I was not able to write image to standard 700mb CD-RW disk as it has extreme size of 733mb. Do waldorf require DVD to install or it is a some kind of trouble?

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#234 2012-09-22 08:41:09

ansem_of_nexus
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2012-09-19
Posts: 234

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

I take it you downloaded the 64-bit from the downloads page, it say the disk approximate size above the md5, I don't like cd install personally I always USB install, is this way not an option? If not, looks like yes a DVD is what is required if you don't have a cd with enough room

Last edited by ansem_of_nexus (2012-09-22 08:43:51)


You can find my work here

Make everything ok button

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#235 2012-09-22 10:27:34

vic
#! by Default
From: /grill
Registered: 2009-02-13
Posts: 3,361

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?


Time to move on!#

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#236 2012-09-24 11:34:40

becker
#! CrunchBanger
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: 2010-02-26
Posts: 245
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

I always use USB sticks for installs simply because it's easier. In fact with Dropbox and Gmail these days linux distro installs are the only reason I keep usb sticks around otherwise I never use them.

Re the 700mb limit. Does anyone use Abiword/Gnumeric?? I wont touch them after an incident some time back where I created an important spreadsheet in Gnumeric only to find it was saved in a Gnumeric specific format and couldn't be opened by any other program. So I uninstall both on a new install and install Libre Office.


pay the bills with Windows, obssesed with Linux, studying CCNA when I can fit it in.

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#237 2012-09-24 12:18:37

dura
Bloated Gimp
From: interzone
Registered: 2012-09-15
Posts: 2,108

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

I never use CDs or DVDs. They seem really archaic now to me. Don't own any recordable ones at all, don't even have an optical drive in my laptop, or want one.

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#238 2012-09-24 13:40:17

fratermus
#! CrunchBanger
From: 75081, USA
Registered: 2012-01-20
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

becker wrote:

Does anyone use Abiword/Gnumeric??

I've stopped installing Libre/Open/whatever lately and have been using Abi or Google Docs.  I did put OO on my wife's and my MIL's machines for maximum completeness and Wife Acceptance Factor.


brother mouse
new to crunchbang.
my first linux kernel build was on a 386-16sx with 6MB SIPP RAM ($50/MB!)

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#239 2012-09-24 15:33:40

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

fratermus wrote:
becker wrote:

Does anyone use Abiword/Gnumeric??

I've stopped installing Libre/Open/whatever lately and have been using Abi or Google Docs.  I did put OO on my wife's and my MIL's machines for maximum completeness and Wife Acceptance Factor.

lol lol I love that:

maximum completeness and Wife Acceptance Factor

priceless. wink

I have OO here for just that reason; WAF.

I don't use Abi or Gnumeric - no need and I stay away from OO too.  I use a text editor for everything.  Being retired and not needing a word processor or spreadsheet really helps.


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#240 2012-09-25 15:59:14

becker
#! CrunchBanger
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: 2010-02-26
Posts: 245
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

I've just read this entire thread and there is something that needs reiterating for the new members at least. Corenominal is the sole person working on this distro. Whether or not he gave up his job to spend more time on it there is still only 1 of him. So yes I would like to see a lite version of the crunchbang iso and I very much like all the work that has gone into Waldorf to make it the polished distro that it currently is but some of you are suggesting as many as 6 different iso's!

1 "main" iso and maybe 1 minimal iso would probably be the limit practically.

I also really like the suggestion of a community driven minimal distro. My vision for that would be along the lines of a debian net install iso which is iirc 150meg in size with a community designed post install script.

Scripts certainly seem to be something we as a community are very good at doing.


pay the bills with Windows, obssesed with Linux, studying CCNA when I can fit it in.

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#241 2012-09-25 18:09:40

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

becker wrote:

I also really like the suggestion of a community driven minimal distro. My vision for that would be along the lines of a debian net install iso which is iirc 150meg in size with a community designed post install script.

Hi Becker, there's a netinstall script here:
http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … ll-script/
At the moment there's a version to build the regular Waldorf system, and a "barebones" version which hardly installs anything at all, but looks just like CrunchBang. However the installer was designed to be easy to customize and I'm planning to post some customization hints soon so with any luck someone might come up with a nice CrunchBang-Lite version. cool


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#242 2012-09-27 08:03:22

Staim
New Member
Registered: 2012-08-30
Posts: 7

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

ansem_of_nexus wrote:

I take it you downloaded the 64-bit from the downloads page, it say the disk approximate size above the md5, I don't like cd install personally I always USB install, is this way not an option?

1) Not always have USB stick available.
2) Needs to prepare installation media from Windoze, where there is no dd command. I tried to use unetbootin that works ok with ubuntu, but with waldorf I got unbootable media.
3) There are systems, that simply do not boot from usb. There is no such option in bios or boot menu. For example my home samsung laptop (manufactored 2012!!!)

Last edited by Staim (2012-09-27 08:04:59)

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#243 2012-09-27 08:49:34

m5
#! CrunchBanger
From: 200 years ago.
Registered: 2011-12-08
Posts: 221

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Why not having a lite edition around 400-500 MB and a full 700+ MB edition?


Keep digging.
Linux beginner.

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#244 2012-09-29 22:55:14

Larsantos
Member
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 15

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Staim wrote:

<snip>

2) Needs to prepare installation media from Windoze, where there is no dd command. I tried to use unetbootin that works ok with ubuntu, but with waldorf I got unbootable media.

Have you tried the USB Universal Instaler? It has a direct option for #! 10 and you can install Waldorf with the last option (sorry can't remember the correct name of it, syslinux, sysinit or something).


Staim wrote:

<snip>

3) There are systems, that simply do not boot from usb. There is no such option in bios or boot menu. For example my home samsung laptop (manufactored 2012!!!)

My samsung laptop (RS530) doesn't have an USB boot option but if you boot with an USB stick inserted and press F2 while booting to go to BIOS options, then select boot>boot priority, you can see the USB stick on the list and change the boot order to make the system boot from the USB stick, that have to be bootable, of course.

Reason for edit: typos

Last edited by Larsantos (2012-09-29 22:56:41)


Toshiba NB520-11V -- Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 x86_64

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#245 2012-09-29 22:58:24

omns
#! wanderer
From: ~/
Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 5,131

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Staim, I'm going to merge this thread with the main one about this topic smile

Edit: done

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#246 2012-09-29 23:57:49

Larsantos
Member
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 15

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

m5 wrote:

Why not having a lite edition around 400-500 MB and a full 700+ MB edition?

#! is already a lite distro, not a minimalist one, but lite nevertheless.

However, maybe some more stuff could be included on the post-install script instead of being installed by default (gnumeric, Abiword??), or given an install option on the openbox menu, like the browser install options, just an idea...


Toshiba NB520-11V -- Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 x86_64

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#247 2012-09-30 00:12:30

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: V-Ger
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,165
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Larsantos wrote:
m5 wrote:

Why not having a lite edition around 400-500 MB and a full 700+ MB edition?

#! is already a lite distro, not a minimalist one, but lite nevertheless.

^ The most critical and misunderstood fact about CrunchBang, well said.

Larsantos wrote:

However, maybe some more stuff could be included on the post-install script instead of being installed by default (gnumeric, Abiword??), or given an install option on the openbox menu, like the browser install options, just an idea...

Great idea... This and making the massive icon packs a download could definitely help in keeping it down, but it has been said that users with minimal bandwidth would suffer..  It is a tough act to balance.


VSIDO | Words That Build Or Destroy

I dev VSIDO

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#248 2012-09-30 04:45:07

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,826
Website

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

My stupid opinion: Leave GIMP off the live media and make it available to d/l per cb-welcome, and the "problem' is fixed smile (or is it absolutely necessary to have a 100MB image editing tool on a live media?)


Sweaty lads picking up the soap | I love the new "Ignore user" button

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#249 2012-09-30 06:07:35

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 13,970

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

^ There was a lot of ruckus here - back when #! was transitioning from Ubuntu to Debian - about Canonical's decision to drop The GIMP from their live images.  I share your opinion, machinebacon, but it seems that, at that time anyway, our opinion was in the minority.

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#250 2012-09-30 06:33:46

vic
#! by Default
From: /grill
Registered: 2009-02-13
Posts: 3,361

Re: Is it time to drop the 700MiB CD Limit?

Gimp surely is a fantastic tool. But necessary on a live image? If I had need for such a powerful image editing tool such as Gimp are, I strongly doubt I would do the work from a live session. There must be a smaller alternative to include.  Personally I have no problem with #! exceeding the magic 700MB limit.


Time to move on!#

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