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#1 2015-09-12 14:23:09

MrDowntempo
Member
Registered: 2011-03-20
Posts: 24

Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

I do love openbox and it's single menu, but I also like having a DE behind the scenes keeping track of things like default text editors and volume setting etc. etc. Many DE's let you swap out the WM so this is done often I suppose. I'm curious as to what DE's any of the bunsen users might use? Do you plug openbox into MATE? XFCE? LXDE? or even LXQT? Cinnamon? KDE? Which setup works the best for you guys?

Part of the reason I'm asking is I'm considering using another Jessie based distro like point linux or SolydX and then using the bunsen repo to pull over the good stuff wink I've used XFCE quite a bit in the past, and I'm familiar with Gnome2 so MATE shouldn't be too different, Really I could be comfortable with any of the DEs running just so long as it's rather seemless.

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#2 2015-09-12 14:35:24

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

LXDE uses OpenBox as far as I know.  As to the rest ... I don't use any - sorry.


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#3 2015-09-12 15:38:45

nore
>2^9
From: Lakeland
Registered: 2009-11-28
Posts: 740

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

Login to your DE and do

openbox --replace &

I use Openbox in XFCE instead of xfwm.

Last edited by nore (2015-09-12 15:48:37)

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#4 2015-09-12 15:40:55

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

^ Interesting ... did you also remove xfwm - or is that not possible?


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#5 2015-09-12 15:47:28

nore
>2^9
From: Lakeland
Registered: 2009-11-28
Posts: 740

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

^Never tried removing it, why bother? I don't fancy solving dependencies.

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#6 2015-09-12 16:10:07

Sector11
#!'er to BL'er
From: SR11 Cockpit
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 15,667
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

Just asking out of curiosity if you had tried.  But that; " I don't fancy solving dependencies." makes perfect sense.

 12 Sep 15 | 12:54:21 ~
    $ dep xfwm4
alias dep=apt-cache depends filename
xfwm4
  Depends: libc6
  Depends: libdbus-glib-1-2
  Depends: libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0
  Depends: libglib2.0-0
  Depends: libgtk2.0-0
  Depends: libpango-1.0-0
  Depends: libstartup-notification0
  Depends: libwnck22
  Depends: libx11-6
  Depends: libxcomposite1
  Depends: libxdamage1
  Depends: libxext6
  Depends: libxfce4ui-1-0
  Depends: libxfce4util6
  Depends: libxfconf-0-2
  Depends: libxfixes3
  Depends: libxrandr2
  Depends: libxrender1
  Suggests: xfce4
  Suggests: xfwm4-themes
  Recommends: librsvg2-common
 
 12 Sep 15 | 12:54:27 ~
    $

and reverse depends:

 12 Sep 15 | 12:56:54 ~
    $ rdep xfwm4
alias apt-cache rdepends filename
xfwm4
Reverse Depends:
  xfwm4-themes
  xfwm4-themes
  xfwm4-themes
  xfwm4-dbg
  xfce4-session
  xfce4
  shiki-dust-theme
  shiki-colors-xfwm-theme
  screenlets
  libxfcegui4-4
 
 12 Sep 15 | 12:57:10 ~
    $ 

and trust me you don't even want to look at the depends of the depends:

    $ rrdep xfwm4
alias apt-rdepends filename

OUCH!
Anyway ... stealing MrDowntempo thread, I'll shut up now.


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#7 2015-09-12 19:00:03

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

MrDowntempo wrote:

I also like having a DE behind the scenes keeping track of things like default text editors

BunsenLabs does this already by using the Debian Alternatives System and judiciously-applied xdg-open configuration.

The volume settings are managed by PulseAudio via volti.

All other settings are controlled UNIX-style via simple text files; this is how it should be.

Desktop environments are bloat, pure and simple.

This is why #! (and by extension, BunsenLabs) exists smile

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#8 2015-09-13 01:59:02

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

In a way, BunsenLabs is almost a DE...


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#9 2015-09-13 05:50:07

nore
>2^9
From: Lakeland
Registered: 2009-11-28
Posts: 740

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Desktop environments are bloat, pure and simple.

I guess you mean that a standalone window manager is pure and simple, a whole desktop environment with bells and whistles is bloat. What is bloat for someone is a necessity for someone else. MrDowntempo, you can have as much bloat as you want if your hardware can handle it, or strip your environment to the minimum, all cli, if you like. You can mix lots of window managers with your desktop environment of choice. Try them out, read the manuals as well as Debian and Arch wikis, choose your favourite and share your experience here.

Last time i had *box WMs with Gnome was 2010 (with Gnome 2). I tried Openbox in KDE last year, no problem with that.

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#10 2015-09-13 13:55:58

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

Most people don't give a crap about the bloat, Enough to work, little importance as how many packages install a DE.

But a distro with nonsense packages installed unconsciously because big DE want, are more open to concerns sporadicly.

From my little experience what i've saw during these three years i use Linux, most DE except Xfce are gone far away from Unix philosophy "do one thing and do it well"

WM's are one of those services/apps who have remained true Unix/Linux philosophy

Sorry but I don't think is fair to mixing WM with DE, for someone who has a goal to stay clean on his system should decided on a choice WM VS DE.

Last edited by Nili (2015-09-13 14:25:46)


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#11 2015-09-13 17:45:34

tknomanzr
#! Die Hard
From: Heavener, OK
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 777

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

The #! philosophy was to avoid bloat as much as possible by not using packages with massive dependency chains. BL is attempting this design philosophy while also respecting the user's ability to choose how to set up their environment. What brought me to #! was the fact that it was light-weight yet elegant in its design. I would hope that this philosophy would extend into the future.

That being said, BL should run on nearly any WM/DE setup you can imagine. One thing we don't provide, however, is KDE themes. So to set it up in a KDE environment would generally add to the bloat.

In general, I would say BL occupies a happy middle-ground as I tend to be even more aggressive about my package selection. I despise Gnome 3 client side decorations, and therefor don't use Gnome3 apps at all, if it can be avoided. The one that I do use, networkmanager, I have to go and add special work-arounds to compton's config in order to not have crazy double shadows on it's dialogs. So yeah, I tend to disagree with Gnome's current design philosophy, as I do with Ubuntu and Unity and KDE as well.

I believe in letting people have it their way. I am not a big fan of the big DE's shoving poor UX design down people's throats. These little distro-lets provide a unique experience among the entire OS eco-system in the philosophy of keep it simple and let people choose how to set their desktop environment up. The #!/BL design philosophy has allowed me to set up an environment that fits me and my work flow. To me that is priceless and worth more than all of OSX/Windows/Unity/KDE/Gnome3 combined. I will be happy the day that big companies finally figure this out.

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#12 2015-09-13 18:33:20

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

Agree with your comment tknomanzr

Above my post, I wanted to say more for personal usage using minimum resurces.
Regarding distro like #Crunchbang, or BunsenLabs

I understand and welcome both distros, i started learning from here, here is my classroom. What the BunsenLabs staff are doing I know they make the best possible to satisfied people who want something lighter in their baskets.

So, take my opinion only for personal usage not to show how BunsenLabs must be.

Regards,
Nili


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#13 2015-09-13 19:31:46

tknomanzr
#! Die Hard
From: Heavener, OK
Registered: 2014-12-09
Posts: 777

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

I like your approach in a lot of ways. Some of your posts have shifted my preferences to cli tools for certain things. I have been intending to post what a great thing I think BL extending debian alternatives is. It really does let us start with BL as our template and build it the way we want it.

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#14 2015-09-13 20:37:44

Nili
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2013-03-20
Posts: 811
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

Me too based from what I've seen from other user posts  smile


# Debian GNU/Linux 8:8.2 (netinst/stable)
# Packages Installed: 541
# Linux debian 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u4 (2015-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
# Startup finished in 2.850s (kernel) + 6.473s (userspace) = 9.324s

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#15 2015-09-14 04:57:33

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

johnraff wrote:

In a way, BunsenLabs is almost a DE...

The only thing it lacks is a session manager for recovering from a session crash.

At HoaS, nyeh. DE's rock dood!

Really, I adore Xfce. The problem with it is how it gets set up, not how it functions. For example, the xfce4 meta package in Debian has way too many dependencies and recommends, and the desktop it leaves you with is butt ugly OOTB. Remove the meta-package and install the components you want individually and it's easily as light and modular as waldorf or Hydrogen, and having GUI keyboard shortcut configurations, GUI panel setup, a session manager and an auto-updated right-click menu with icons is very appealing, isn't it? Plus xfce4-settings-manager is better than lxappearance in my eyes.

Theming is the last hurdle...
jnq1Zrem.png
MwVZw9Rm.png

Infinality font rendering in that first scrot (what a difference), compton for compositing in both.

In another thread johnraff and I discussed how the session manager can easily get caught in a loop where a program like xfce4-power-manager will get started at every login till you've got a dozen instances running you weren't aware of. I think I have that figured out and can set it up right, though, and I have an urge to try a Bunsen Xfce spin after our first official release images and then the CD-sized ISOs go out.


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#16 2015-09-14 10:50:53

Head_on_a_Stick
CatMod
From: A world of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 4,797

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

hhh wrote:

having GUI keyboard shortcut configurations, GUI panel setup, a session manager and an auto-updated right-click menu with icons is very appealing, isn't it?

No.
tongue

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#17 2015-09-14 12:49:47

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

fgVKKUt.gif


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#18 2015-09-16 15:56:51

nore
>2^9
From: Lakeland
Registered: 2009-11-28
Posts: 740

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

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#19 2015-09-16 20:03:34

mzsade
#! Junkie
Registered: 2009-09-27
Posts: 276

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

This is a no-brainer even to a linux-yokel like me; when i want to be molly-coddled and live in luxury as it were, i go to my LMDE partition but if i want to aspire at anything like efficiency or getting the most out of my machine with the minimum of resources of my choosing..without going to the other extreme of sacrificing all creature comforts of a GUi, of course..a DE just doesn't make sense, and having a WM on top of one seems absolutely silly.  tongue  Although, I have used Crunchbang up to Statler and if Bunsen Labs is carrying on it's legacy, then what it offers as a DE must be the exception i haven't accounted for, but otherwise..

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#20 2015-09-17 08:31:07

johnraff
nullglob
From: Nagoya, Japan
Registered: 2009-01-07
Posts: 4,148
Website

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

hhh wrote:

I have an urge to try a Bunsen Xfce spin

Don't know it there'd be anything useful here: http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=30132
Have a poke round in sysfiles2/


John
--------------------
( a boring Japan blog , Japan Links, idle twitterings  and GitStuff )
#! forum moderator    BunsenLabs

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#21 2015-09-17 08:51:03

nore
>2^9
From: Lakeland
Registered: 2009-11-28
Posts: 740

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

mzsade wrote:

a DE just doesn't make sense...

OK. If you get your work done with a standalone WM, that's fine.

...and having a WM on top of one seems absolutely silly.

There's always a window manager, no matter if it came as default with the desktop environment or was changed later. You can have several WMs installed and usually switch between them while working inside a DE.

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#22 2015-09-17 12:33:34

hhh
Cityspeak
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 3,253

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

@johnraff, great link! Thanks.


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#23 2015-09-19 09:51:35

ostrołęk
CB Member
Registered: 2015-08-13
Posts: 110

Re: Plugging Openbox into Desktop Environments

Maybe we should have a look in Distrowatch today about Semplice Workstation. It is based on Jessie 8.2 and Openbox. It has an interesting DE called Vera. They say, Vera is a plugin-based, GTK+3 Desktop Environment. In Vera, Openbox is a plugin. You might find some info here; http://semplice-linux.org/blog

Fantastic Settings. Write on the screen would open the menu. There is also an Openbox menu. Kernel 4.1.7
Terminal Roxterm, PCmanFMm, Abiword, Gnumeric, Mirage, Pragha, Synaptic etc. UEFI enabled. All in a 662MB live CD.

Last edited by ostrołęk (2015-09-19 16:51:11)

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