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#76 2014-01-22 22:40:08

hhh
Caught in the Vortex
Registered: 2010-08-04
Posts: 1,889

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

@sysaxed, it looks like your thread got split because you moved off-topic from the bitcoin wallet announcement immediately. corenominal (cn from now on) made it clear, IMO, that he set up the wallet in response to user requests for it, not because he is requesting donations. Moving on...

On the one hand you ponder that "people went crazy over this" and on the other you speak in absolutes for #! as a whole with statements like "There are no development updates in #!, and that's a really bad thing." Sorry to bring this up, ew, but you've done the same at times with statements like "But I have to say that user will always bypass the About page, and things like that. That`s just how it is." Well I don't bypass about pages, so not always and not just how it is. And I run Debian stable and I think the way Debian handles development updates is, in general, a really great thing.

#! is a one-man project that has developed into the best LIVE image of Debian stable featuring a stand-alone Openbox desktop available, with a superbly friendly forum. FULL STOP. Anything else is someone trying to impose their will on what #! should be. The Testing/Unstable support thread is here because #!ers have taken upon themselves to upgrade to testing and/or sid, cn noticed it and made a forum for it. Since the switch to Debian, #! has followed Debian guidelines... users should use stable, power users could use testing and testers may try sid, if they are willing to do the work involved.

There's a fun little discussion about running testing or sid in another sub forum, I'll link to it below. I'll finish by saying if someone needs to be hand-held through upgrading to testing or sid, they most likely should stick with stable. I hope that makes sense, no hard feelings intended.

http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic. … 15#p358015

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#77 2014-01-23 01:20:10

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

PackRat wrote:

..... The distro has grown to big for it`s purpose as a personal one-man distro.

No it hasn't. Install it, configure it, maybe get some firmware, and your done - start using it.

You want to tinker some more, do what hinto suggests in above post.

You miss the point. The distro has grown so big that the user-base no longer is in sync with Corenominal`s vision. And please don`t talk about you, me, or other people who post a lot here, as the average user. Because we`re not. We can thinker the hell out of #!, but the average home-user can not, and are pretty much left with a old stale and dull system, because that`s what Crunchbang are.

My point is just that Crunchbang should profile itself a bit different. The vision doesn`t match the user-base, and that`s a problem.


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#78 2014-01-23 01:46:16

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 3,001

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

ew wrote:

My point is just that Crunchbang should profile itself a bit different. The vision doesn`t match the user-base, and that`s a problem.

How is it a problem?


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#79 2014-01-23 03:06:20

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

damo wrote:
ew wrote:

My point is just that Crunchbang should profile itself a bit different. The vision doesn`t match the user-base, and that`s a problem.

How is it a problem?

It`s a problem because it at some point will leave a lot of users quite negative to #! 

It`s not a problem for me. I would miss the community, but I can live quite well without a Crunchbang release.


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#80 2014-01-23 05:28:28

Copper0
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2013-07-02
Posts: 103

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

ew wrote:

. And please don`t talk about you, me, or other people who post a lot here, as the average user. Because we`re not. We can thinker the hell out of #!, but the average home-user can not, and are pretty much left with a old stale and dull system, because that`s what Crunchbang are.

My point is just that Crunchbang should profile itself a bit different. The vision doesn`t match the user-base, and that`s a problem.

I'm not sure who the average user base is, and if you are not posting here then I am unaware of your existence.  I spent a lot of time distro hopping before I settled on #! and what made me stay was the amount of tinkering I could do. Sure I could have built it up from a minimal Debian install but  #! had already set everything almost as I wanted it. If it is a matter of supporting newer hardware then hopefully it is just a kernel upgrade away. Is it a software upgrade you are after, then that is less than 2 years away (if you are tracking stable) As far as Corenominal's vision I read it as a jumping off point to making a system that you need.
I am curious though what you think the profile should be?

EDIT: Sorry ew, just went back and read post #22 seems that you summed it up pretty well there.

Last edited by Copper0 (2014-01-23 05:45:31)

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#81 2014-01-23 05:36:07

Copper0
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2013-07-02
Posts: 103

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

Just read
this post in Introductions
Would this this be considered an average user? (no disrespect intended to anyone)

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#82 2014-01-23 05:44:34

sysaxed
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-25
Posts: 61

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

Copper0 wrote:

I am curious though what you think the profile should be?

It is not that important. It would be nice if corenominal responded to contributors on github. At least...

Last edited by sysaxed (2014-01-23 05:45:34)

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#83 2014-01-23 06:58:49

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 12,280

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

You know, this thread has become nothing if not redundant.  It's also started repeating itself and saying the same things over and over again.

As has already been said in this thread and elsewhere in this forum, CrunchBang is Debian Stable with Openbox plus some custom text configs and a very few custom-compiled binaries.

As has already been said in this thread and elsewhere in this forum, if a user needs newer packages, we're more than happy to help them out or direct them to a more rolling distro that will better meet their needs.

As has already been said in this thread and elsewhere in this forum, it would be nice if corenominal were more actively involved in this forum and more responsive to pull requests.  (Insert obligatory finger joke here.)

Regarding the IRC, I really have no idea how and/or why new users keep finding their way over there; any support on IRC is completely unofficial and unrelated to this forum, as has been stated multiple times in this forum.  (Seriously, who keeps pointing people to the IRC?  Stop it!  Now! mad  I don't even know who's keeping that channel open. roll )

@sysaxed:  Have you PMd or emailed corenominal regarding the github situation?

@Copper0:  That new user actually sounds a little more experienced than the average CrunchBang user.  (EDIT:  He's certainly more experienced than I was when I first found my way to CrunchBang.)

Last edited by pvsage (2014-01-23 07:05:21)


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#84 2014-01-23 10:34:57

sysaxed
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-25
Posts: 61

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

pvsage wrote:

@sysaxed:  Have you PMd or emailed corenominal regarding the github situation?

No, would that help?
A year ago I wrote him an email asking if he could upload other missing scripts to github like cb-lock and cb-cowpowers, but I got nothing in response.
Some of my pull request were accepted (in September and October), but I don't see any logic in his actions - what is the deciding factor that determines whether he accepts it or leaves it without any comment? And what is in his mind when he writes "I'll merge it soon" but does nothing afterwards?

Last edited by sysaxed (2014-01-23 10:35:36)

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#85 2014-01-23 12:21:57

iMBeCil
WAAAAT?
From: Zgb, Croatia
Registered: 2012-03-22
Posts: 665

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

Two years ago when I started to use #!, I read its 'About' text, and I understood it as:
- I, corenominal, made #! for myself, to have system I need/use/whatever
- I, corenominal, am a nice person, so I will let others use #!
- I, corenominal, don't care if you like it or not
- I, corenominal, don't care if you need <this-or-that-app-or-feature>; I don't need it, so I won't put it in #!, do it yourself
- I, corenominal, don't have time/energy/whatever to make it truly 'democratic' multideveloper project, so bugger off
(of course, I exaggerated a bit).

Why you - sysaxed and ew, among others - cannot accept this?


Postpone all your duties; if you die, you won't have to do them ..

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#86 2014-01-23 15:40:20

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,920

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

That sums it up nicely iMBeCil.

It's kind of similar to how I might run a hyptothetical distro of my own someday. I think Corenominal has hit on a creative process that works well for his personality: "do things I like, to my personal standards."

Last edited by snowpine (2014-01-23 15:40:58)


/hugged

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#87 2014-01-23 15:56:11

sysaxed
#! Member
Registered: 2013-03-25
Posts: 61

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

iMBeCil wrote:

Why you - sysaxed and ew, among others - cannot accept this?

Because that's not what I'm talking about. It does not matter for me if #! uses one tool or another.
Did you read my post? If yes, did you click on that github link?
Alright, let me help you, here are some of the pull requests:

https://github.com/corenominal/cb-pipemenus/pull/8
https://github.com/corenominal/cb-wmhacks/pull/2
https://github.com/corenominal/cb-pipemenus/pull/9
https://github.com/corenominal/cb-wmhacks/pull/4

These are non-destructive code changes, they don't go in conflict with corenominal's vision of life. Even if they do(which would be kinda... unrealistic), then why wont he tell that clearly?

I think there is no excuse for that, you can't even hide it behind his vision of the development process.

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#88 2014-01-23 16:00:21

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,920

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

sysaxed, I think we get the point... you are new here, you will figure out how it works. smile


/hugged

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#89 2014-01-23 16:01:53

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 12,280

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

sysaxed wrote:
pvsage wrote:

@sysaxed:  Have you PMd or emailed corenominal regarding the github situation?

No, would that help?
A year ago I wrote him an email asking if he could upload other missing scripts to github like cb-lock and cb-cowpowers, but I got nothing in response.

So, basically, this is between you and corenominal.  OK, I'm closing this thread; I suggest you contact corenominal if you would like to discuss this matter further.


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#90 2014-01-23 19:41:45

bobobex
The Better Half
From: Lincoln, UK
Registered: 2008-11-26
Posts: 1,246

Re: another rant about stability vs. staleness

iMBeCil wrote:

Two years ago when I started to use #!, I read its 'About' text, and I understood it as:
- I, corenominal, made #! for myself, to have system I need/use/whatever
- I, corenominal, am a nice person, so I will let others use #!
- I, corenominal, don't care if you like it or not
- I, corenominal, don't care if you need <this-or-that-app-or-feature>; I don't need it, so I won't put it in #!, do it yourself
- I, corenominal, don't have time/energy/whatever to make it truly 'democratic' multideveloper project, so bugger off
(of course, I exaggerated a bit).

Why you - sysaxed and ew, among others - cannot accept this?

LOL - never a truer word spoken in jest! Very nicely summed up.  lol


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