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#26 2013-04-13 05:18:40

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: not where I belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 2,200

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

dura wrote:

*Community
*Thoughtful additions (i.e. Openbox, Tint2, etc., can be added to Debian, but come as default here).
*First run scripts
*Git repo stuff
*More thoughtfulness
*Non-free
*CBizgreat!
*More

+1 for CBizgreat!   big_smile

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#27 2013-04-13 14:36:53

antiv0rtex
#! Die Hard
From: Earth
Registered: 2012-10-05
Posts: 574

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

DebianJoe wrote:

I'd rather someone to have a pleasant experience when they try something new, and honestly Crunchbang supplies all of that in a way that someone who's fresh from Ubuntu or Windowns can get comfortable with.

I know just what you mean - pure Debian can be daunting at times, and a "Newborn Penguin" ( wink ) could conceivably throw up his/her hands and/or the proverbial towel after a few hours of trying to make everything work smoothly. I have been running Linux-based systems for 2 1/2 years now and even I (self-important look lol) am still a bit intimidated by Debian OOTB.

DebianJoe wrote:

Plus, I've been known to break things in epic ways on my own.  Not everyone is that comfortable with the amount of nano that can be required to dig yourself back out.

I know the feeling lol

Iranon wrote:

Crunchbang deserves credit for giving a polished and utterly inoffensive user experience out of the box, with straightforward and modular parts held together by just the right amount of glue.

There is no gratuitous bloat, and no gratuitous faffing about with user-unfriendly geek toys either. And if you swap out the parts you care about, the parts you just want to work keep doing just that.

^ I agree, well said.

seppalta wrote:

As for forums, they are available for everyone to use, so Crunchbang forum is there for you whether you do or do not use Crunchbang.

If only ^this^ principle worked in the same way for forums.debian.net...

Ah well, it's fine - the CrunchBang forums are generally a much more friendly place anyway.

grove wrote:

Why don't we work on developing some apps that push #! even further? I'm a developer! Is anyone interested in brain storming some fun apps for #!?

I'm not a developer by any stretch of the imagination (yet), but I'd be interested in helping with the brainstorming part smile

This sounds like a fun project! We could call it... "Project Unique Apps That One Can Only Find In The CrunchBang Linux Distro." cool  tongue  big_smile

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#28 2013-04-13 20:07:11

nadir
#! Member
Registered: 2010-10-20
Posts: 83

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

Using Debian myself. If i install a distro based on Debian i usually undo everything which was added as -so called-  comfort (often that means to uninstall non-free and contrib packages).
I then come to think that i am better of  sticking to Debian.
Regarding openbox (which i don't know well): As Debian doesn't install services and software you don't ask for (again: "comfort"), it is usually very easy on resources and low on hard-disk-usage.

As far forums are concerned: in a forum i don't care much for friendliness or chat, but for knowledge.
That said: most of the discussions and help concerning Debian takes place in mailing lists and IRC-channels. The two forums mentioned at debian.org (forums.debian.net and www.debianhelp.org/ )are a very small part of the Debian community.

And my personal evergreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5WvY1CiRfU
http://upsilon.cc/~zack/blog/posts/2011 … ut_Debian/

one can easily identify Debian as one of the few remaining players who both care about Free Software and can be trusted in making choices not driven by profit.

I for one do care about my OS being free as in freedom.

It is the only (big) distro i know which is done by a community, not backed by a company and not a one-man-show.  Some people, like me, like that approach.

Last but not least Debian exists for very long now (like RedHat and Slackware) and chances are high it will exist when many other distros we know today will have ceased to exist.

None of the above is meant as an argument to use Debian with openbox instead of crunchbang. Only some notes.

Last edited by nadir (2013-04-13 20:16:42)

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#29 2013-04-14 04:40:13

DebianJoe
#! Code Whisperer
From: The Bleeding Edge
Registered: 2013-03-13
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

R3nCi wrote:

This sounds like a fun project! We could call it... "Project Unique Apps That One Can Only Find In The CrunchBang Linux Distro." cool  tongue  big_smile

Or, "99 ways to break the stability of a stable distribution." wink  I'd be willing to volunteer my time, but only if the programs are potentially cross-platform and not included in the core of #!.  Simply put, I don't think that any software should be assumed to be unique to a single distro.  The problems that a user-based program repo could create for the system are endless.

Throw out some ideas, though.  Perhaps we can open up a git and at least churn out something that someone will like.

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#30 2013-04-15 06:53:51

uname
#! Junkie
Registered: 2013-03-15
Posts: 472

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

I think the post from Nadir was very good. Debian is not very easy to use. But Debian is free and there is a Debian community. I think in yet another 15 years Debian exists, i hope #!, too.

#! is a comfort Debian installation and configuration with nice features newer packages.

None of the above is meant as an argument to use Debian with openbox instead of crunchbang.

None of the above is meant as an argument to use !# with openbox instead of Debian.

Last edited by uname (2013-04-15 06:59:46)

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#31 2013-04-15 07:31:37

brontosaurusrex
#! Red Menace
Registered: 2012-06-15
Posts: 1,237

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

I have a video/audio transcoder vm in my mind for some time, the base should boot in 2 seconds and be able to run ffmpeg and friends (and some basic wm, so the files can be drag and droped from the host os), any usefull hints will be noted.
edit: this is probably in the wrong thread...

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2013-04-15 19:07:58)

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#32 2013-04-15 18:15:33

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,001

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

I love Debian but I think they need better DEs.


♪ Debian, soon in the morning ♪

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#33 2013-04-15 18:43:54

snowpine
#!-a-roo
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 2,924

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

intoCB wrote:

I love Debian but I think they need better DEs.

such as what? unity??


/hugged

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#34 2013-04-15 19:05:30

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,001

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

Gnome Shell is stuck on 3.4 and KDE was buggy last time I checked (6 weeks ago).


♪ Debian, soon in the morning ♪

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#35 2013-04-15 20:22:19

uname
#! Junkie
Registered: 2013-03-15
Posts: 472

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

I used Gnome2 and it works fine. I do not like Gnome3 and so i switched to Xfce and now to Openbox. A perhaps nice alternative to Gnome could be

http://packages.debian.org/unstable/main/cinnamon

Actually in Debian Sid, perhaps in Jessie/Testing in the future.

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#36 2013-04-16 00:15:08

nadir
#! Member
Registered: 2010-10-20
Posts: 83

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

intoCB wrote:

I love Debian but I think they need better DEs.

intoCB wrote:

Gnome Shell is stuck on 3.4 and KDE was buggy last time I checked (6 weeks ago).

Debian is in the freeze (rather at the end of it). Hence right now it _is_ stuck.
Look at how Debian releases, and you will see that it will  not have "better" DE's (If you mean newer with better). stable will always get older and older (for ca 2 years) and testing and sid will (sooner or later) stop adding new packages during the freeze (which can last half a year or more).
I can't say much about gnome or kde in Debian (been ages i used them and don't plan to look at them anytime soon. I guess they are not very polished neither? Perhaps you meant that with "better" too. When it comes to look and feel i am barbarian, hence i wouldn't notice it anyway :-)  ).
Else the DE's are the De's the way they come from upstream. Debian "only" packages them, no? (well: for many window managers the packagers add -for example-  a sane root-menu and other default configs, so they do a bit more than just packaging. The lack of it drives me nut if i use BSD or such).
Anyway i think that, different GUI's,  is where distros based on Debian come in handy.

PS (just in case), the release cycle in short:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debia … tml#s3.1.9
searching for that i found this:
http://debian-handbook.info/browse/stab … cycle.html
which i have to read now ... grml...

Perhaps i simply misunderstood you and all i posted is pointless. Sorry if so.

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#37 2013-04-16 04:35:04

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,001

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

^It is subjective, yes. By the way, I never use the "p" word as I believe it is subjectivity masquerading as objectivity.

It was just a thought that I prefer LMDE's and CrunchBang's choices for Debian. It isn't the age; MATE is perhaps my favorite right now.

However, I just installed Debian Sid with Gnome Shell 3.4 and it's absolutely fine.


♪ Debian, soon in the morning ♪

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#38 2013-04-16 05:48:16

ausmuso
Member
From: Blue Mountains, Australia
Registered: 2013-03-08
Posts: 38

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

The main difference?
corenominal . . .  of course!
and  . . .  oh yes, the forums are great also.


The trouble with having an open mind . . . .
  . . . . . . is people come and put things in it.

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#39 2013-04-19 16:59:32

ohnonot
...again
Registered: 2012-05-22
Posts: 1,677
Website

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

intoCB wrote:

By the way, I never use the "p" word...

perhaps? pointless? polished? packages? PS?

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#40 2013-04-19 19:30:33

douglas
#! CrunchBanger
From: Dallas, Texas
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 230

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

uname wrote:

i think i even tried to build an openbox desktop on top of a bare, non-X debian install. like op originally asked. it was a painful experience, and after a while i gave up.

What seems to be the trouble?

Like Arch without the awesome wiki!

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#41 2013-04-19 20:18:11

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,001

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

^polished - as in "polishèd, his head shineth liketh the northern star-eth"


♪ Debian, soon in the morning ♪

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#42 2013-04-20 18:46:07

nadir
#! Member
Registered: 2010-10-20
Posts: 83

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

intoCB wrote:

^polished - as in "polishèd, his head shineth liketh the northern star-eth"

Puh, that was a tough one. I thought you meant "personally" (couldn't figure it out, but asssumed i got the idea).
But yeah, to me crunchbang looks polished (or sexy, or nice, or whatever). Some other distros too, and some don't look good to me.
But as i use one app per desktop, fullscreen, for most work tilda, no desktop icons, i don't see much of it anyway, so i don't care ~that much (sure i like if it looks good, who wouldn't? Just that it is not the main thing i am interested in. Otoh i use compiz, so i guess i care more than i dare to say).

Some distros have the booting configured in a nice way, the tty-setup too (some even with a background picture). I would love to have something like that (but don't know how to reach it and not willing to invest that much time). I seem to recall it's that way for Sabayon and Backtrack (now Kalis?)

Last edited by nadir (2013-04-20 18:47:00)

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#43 2013-04-21 02:11:02

douglas
#! CrunchBanger
From: Dallas, Texas
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 230

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

#! is polished as in looks nice, works great, no rough edges.  That does not mean it is the prettiest / most eye candy.

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#44 2013-04-22 18:49:05

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,505

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

*CBizgreat!

Lmao Dura big_smile ... awww thanks guys. Not sure if my dorking around here counts as a benefit.

OT: #! is Debian ... agree with Dura and what others have said though. Corenominal's excellent gnu/nix choices + tastes. The crunch community has always been something that really stands out about #! too. A ton of knowledgeable and nice nixers congregate @ this forum and aren't stingy about sharing interesting info, experience or helping someone having issues solve problems.


Agree with those who said #! can save someone time, if you like what it provides then you've got a ready to go OS out of the box ... No config'ing or etc required. Of course Debian can be setup exactly as #! if desired. If #! is what you're going for as the end result could make more sense and save time by just installing #! in the 1st place ?

As always, when it comes to gnu/nix related questions. Anyone really curious is free to try both options and see what they think/prefer ? Dig in and tweak da hades out of #! ? ... No reason what you learn in the process won't apply with Debian too.


Vll! wink

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2013-04-22 18:58:56)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#45 2013-04-22 23:46:06

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

I guess there aren`t any significant differences between the two. Non-free is easy enough to implement with Debian. Here are a few very good scripts, like cb-welcome and cb-exit, but those can be "stolen" and used on Debian. The only thing that`s really uniqe is the community, but the community is also so friendly that you still will have it in your back  if you desert CB and goes to Debian.

So what it boils down to, is that it is a h...of a lot cooler to be a Crunchbanger. #! is very well put together and neatly configured, but it shouldn`t be to difficult to replicate this on Debian itself. But why do that, when someones already done it for you?

Take Peppermint Three for example. It`s a ubuntu/mint-based lxde-openbox distro. It was no problem to make it look and feel exactly like Crunchbang, even with the Ubuntu/mint-base, so I guess that pretty much any distro can be made into a good copy of any other distro. But the only reason to do it, is the learning experience.


- apt-mark hold account

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#46 2013-04-23 00:38:17

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: V-Ger
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,163
Website

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

^Stolen is harsh...  kiss

Corenominal gives these away with a very interesting note in each

License:
            DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
                    Version 2, December 2004

Copyright (C) 2004 Sam Hocevar <sam@hocevar.net>

Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim or modified
copies of this license document, and changing it is allowed as long
as the name is changed.

            DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
   TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION

  0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO.


VSIDO | Words That Build Or Destroy

We do not run from challenges, they become new innovations within VSIDO!

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#47 2013-04-23 05:51:16

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 2,001

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

ohnonot wrote:
intoCB wrote:

By the way, I never use the "p" word...

perhaps? pointless? polished? packages? PS?

No, I never use the word "p" as it has no vowels and is difficult to pronounce.


♪ Debian, soon in the morning ♪

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#48 2013-04-23 11:31:13

ew
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-09-27
Posts: 1,975

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

VastOne wrote:

^Stolen is harsh...  kiss

Corenominal gives these away with a very interesting note in each

License:
            DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
                    Version 2, December 2004

Copyright (C) 2004 Sam Hocevar <sam@hocevar.net>

Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim or modified
copies of this license document, and changing it is allowed as long
as the name is changed.

            DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
   TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION

  0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO.

LOL. That`s why the quotes was there. I`ve used them on other distros myself. The cb-exit script is especially useful.


- apt-mark hold account

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#49 2013-04-24 10:54:57

summeryang000
New Member
Registered: 2013-04-24
Posts: 2
Website

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

Thank you for sharing

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#50 2013-10-19 01:46:29

Chooch
#! Member
From: Kentucky
Registered: 2013-09-29
Posts: 76

Re: Crunchbang vs Debian w/ OpenBox

antiv0rtex wrote:

.......- pure Debian can be daunting at times, and a "Newborn Penguin" ( wink ) could conceivably throw up his/her hands and/or the proverbial towel after a few hours of trying to make everything work smoothly. I have been running Linux-based systems for 2 1/2 years now and even I (self-important look lol) am still a bit intimidated by Debian OOTB.

I can't for the life of me understand why people keep saying things like this. I put-off trying Debian for three years {Wanted to try it as my maiden Linux OS, but got scared-=off by such comments, so used Ubuntu instead]....then when I finally tried it [Just recently, before discovering #!] the reality was that it was really no different than Ubuntu as far as user-friendliness and accomodating ignurnt[sic] noobs, like myself.

Actually, I take that back. Debian just worked out-of-the-box- I didn't have to do a thing after install- whereas with Ubuntu, it took a little fiddling and time to make it fully functional. Day-to-day useage: I saw absolutely no difference between Ubu and Deb. 

Ditto Crunchbang- it was fully functional- just the Openbox/Tint2 took a little getting used to- but no big deal- and I quickly learned to love 'em!

__________________________

More on-topic:

I tried playing around a little also, trying to do a minimal Debian install.  I tied ALL the different modes of the installer [i.e. "expert graphical"; "expert text", etc.] but there was no way to get anything as minimal as #!, which had the functionality of #!- and for the time and trouble it took...and yet lacked the niceties of #!, it really made me appreciate just what a pearl we have here with #!- which saves us time AND provides better functionality and a very light-weight and efficient system.

To the OP I would say: Try #! and then try duplicating it with Debian, while retaining the nice little touches (like the little GUI shutdown thingie; or using super+space to bring up the Openbox menu when there is no area to click on the desktop) while keeping your OS under 800MB! Good luck!


CAUTION!    Linus may be quoted!!.

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