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#26 2013-03-29 21:29:34

vlax
#! Member
From: Alcatraz
Registered: 2012-12-25
Posts: 86
Website

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

zalew wrote:

As they say, it's not paranoia when they are *really* after you big_smile

roll indeed...


'_[=]_'

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Be excellent to each other!

#27 2013-03-29 21:55:12

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

el_koraco wrote:

b) they're not out to get us;

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It wouldn't be the first time that corporations worked together with either law-enforcement or you know who in order to silence people. Coca-Cola is an extreme example. But you can pull this into a modern context when people would start to rebel against the omnipresence of certain corporations all over the web or in RL.

Apart from that you might want to look into how much data is being handed over to state agencies from certain companies. Most of the big ones have automated interfaces set up for that - and you don't know what data exactly is being tunneled there.

It appears to me that in certain countries the issue of surveillance is not at all being taken seriously.

You might want to keep updated on what is actually taking place in the world around you...

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-29 22:28:43)

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#28 2013-03-29 22:10:27

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

Bradi wrote:

Big Data is not wrong in itself. It gives us unprecedented possibilities to analyse and model human interactions. It can be used to improve economic policies, optimise resource distribution and yes, hunt child pornography. But as with any data, it can be used for other purposes than what it was originally collected for. We really really need well-thought out laws that regulate data collection, retention and sharing. A reform of EU data-protection law is currently underway. I encourage EU citizens to review the proposed changes and mail their representatives about your concerns.

Sorry to be so sarcastic... but.

Have a look at this documentary to find out how decisions are made in the EU:

The Brussels Business by Friedrich Moser and Matthieu Lietaert.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-29 22:11:24)

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#29 2013-03-29 22:31:39

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

I wouldn't worry so much about the government institutions and le, it's a great paranoia-booster, but if that makes anybody sleep better or worse, they got it figured out pretty well already. stasi was more advanced in doxing (for their time) than any evilesque corp of today. not to mention attributes, some of which were already mentioned before in this topic, such as access to income, healthcare, gas, power usage, cctv, etc.

they want real time access to email? how's that different from real time access to phone they had for decades? a century ago they were sitting in the woods with a binocular, 50 years later they were installing wire-taps, now they already have access to your isp logs and possibilities of mtm'ing you, but want to wire-tap the parts that are encrypted but have an accessible end-point. they are just keeping up with the times with their measures, but that's not necessarily anything new or creepier than before, it's just the tools that have changed. even recently there were scandals with illegal/unreasonable wire-tapping of phones, all of them in democratic countries.

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#30 2013-03-29 22:44:42

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

zalew wrote:

I wouldn't worry so much about the government institutions and le, it's a great paranoia-booster, but if that makes anybody sleep better or worse, they got it figured out pretty well already. stasi was more advanced in doxing (for their time) than any evilesque corp of today. not to mention attributes, some of which were already mentioned before in this topic, such as access to income, healthcare, gas, power usage, cctv, etc.

they want real time access to email? how's that different from real time access to phone they had for decades? a century ago they were sitting in the woods with a binocular, 50 years later they were installing wire-taps, now they already have access to your isp logs and possibilities of mtm'ing you, but want to wire-tap the parts that are encrypted but have an accessible end-point. they are just keeping up with the times with their measures, but that's not necessarily anything new or creepier than before, it's just the tools that have changed. even recently there were scandals with illegal/unreasonable wire-tapping of phones, all of them in democratic countries.

Well, what you seem to overlook here is the centralization of data. And the fact that a) big databases don't forget and b) are easy to search. And: that they are aiming to now spy on everyone. In the GDR you needed to be a person of interest for them to make the effort to bug your house, record and transcribe everything you do. That's not necessary any longer.

People are making it easier and easier to be spied on and have everything they search for, do and think on the web stored and profiled. And of course you are right: This all happens in democratic countries. And why? Because people don't realize that freedom isn't a granted right but something that has to be preserved and looked after. But as displayed in this thread this isn't exactly what people are thinking when confronted with the state of their world.

You should also remember that the argument about not having anything to worry about is complete and utter nonsense:

* If I'm not doing anything wrong, then you have no cause to watch me

* Other people define what is "right" or "wrong" and that definition changes all the time

* Someone else might do something wrong with my information

* Pieces of information, taken out of context, can lead people to wrong conclusions

* Scanning information, you can always find something that might be wrong or abused

* You can be at the wrong place at the wrong time and still have done nothing wrong

* You can't possibly know what way some information might be used against you at the time it is collected

* Computers don't "forget" and you can't control how long some system will hold information about you

* Once information is collected, you don't know who that company might share it with, nor why, nor how often

* The only "safe" information, is the information not collected or offered

Maybe you want to take a look at this talk with some very high profile whistle-blowers from within the community we are talking about here to understand what exactly is so troubling about this.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-29 22:45:20)

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#31 2013-03-29 23:21:51

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:
el_koraco wrote:

b) they're not out to get us;

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It wouldn't be the first time that corporations worked together with either law-enforcement or you know who in order to silence people. Coca-Cola is an extreme example. But you can pull this into a modern context when people would start to rebel against the omnipresence of certain corporations all over the web or in RL.

Apart from that you might want to look into how much data is being handed over to state agencies from certain companies. Most of the big ones have automated interfaces set up for that - and you don't know what data exactly is being tunneled there.

It appears to me that in certain countries the issue of surveillance is not at all being taken seriously.

You might want to keep updated on what is actually taking place in the world around you...

Ok, let me put it like this: Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're out to get you.

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#32 2013-03-29 23:36:36

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

el_koraco wrote:

Ok, let me put it like this: Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're out to get you.

Well, and just because you're not paranoid that doesn't mean that they are not out to get you.

I don't know why you don't get it. Maybe because you have no friends or family that have ever lived under the rule of a dictatorship.

You don't need to be paranoid to see that too much data about people is being collected that could easily be used in ways you don't want to think about now. Just take a fricking look at China. Is that so hard?

Sorry, man. I don't want to be rude - but this kind of ignorance to the demise of democracy and civil rights is pissing me off. Because it is so important.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-29 23:40:29)

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#33 2013-03-30 00:09:27

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

You should also remember that the argument about not having anything to worry about is complete and utter nonsense:

* If I'm not doing anything wrong, then you have no cause to watch me

you got me a bit wrong, or I phrased it badly, so I feel you're attacking the strawman here. what I meant is that while 'cia iz in ur dropbox' makes for a sensationalist headline, the case is that govt measures to spy on citizens are defined by laws that makes it legal or illegal to track you using current technologies available. no one should be surprised by that. if they tapped phones when phones were the main communication tool, why is anybody surprised they want to tap your online accounts? still, unlawful tapping is a scandal today, and the moment you should worry is when it stops being a scandal and starts being an accepted norm. it's a regulation measure, not a technological one.

second of all, contrary to some views, unless somebody lives in an oppressive country usually the govts aren't there to make your life miserable like orwell and shit. unlawful surveillance is a pathology and should be treated as such. it's abuse, and against abuse people should protect themselves. if somebody is protecting themselves against every point of contact with *the system*, because evil corpo 1984, it's not being conscious, it's tin-foil hat paranoia. privacy and security are not binary cases.

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

* You can't possibly know what way some information might be used against you at the time it is collected
* Computers don't "forget" and you can't control how long some system will hold information about you
* Once information is collected, you don't know who that company might share it with, nor why, nor how often

well, that's what I had in mind in my previous posts. I pity today's newborns if their parents don't take care about privacy - when the bird leaves the nest, there will be already a huge file attached to it for the rest of their lives.

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#34 2013-03-30 00:37:09

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

zalew wrote:

you got me a bit wrong, or I phrased it badly, so I feel you're attacking the strawman here. what I meant is that while 'cia iz in ur dropbox' makes for a sensationalist headline, the case is that govt measures to spy on citizens are defined by laws that makes it legal or illegal to track you using current technologies available. no one should be surprised by that. if they tapped phones when phones were the main communication tool, why is anybody surprised they want to tap your online accounts? still, unlawful tapping is a scandal today, and the moment you should worry is when it stops being a scandal and starts being an accepted norm. it's a regulation measure, not a technological one.

Yes, obviously there was some form of unsuccessful communication. wink I totally agree with what you wrote. For me it was a scandal the first time I ever heard about anyone spying on their citizens for no reason - no matter what medium they used. And because I grew up in Germany this sort of action was naturally connected to both the Gestapo and the Stasi in the stories I were told.

Of course there are cases in which it is justified and I have nothing against that. Some people tend to overlook that there really are some mofos out there that need to be hunted down. But that is a matter of the police. And there even may be much fewer cases in which intelligence agencies will rightfully have the need to do something similar.

But to quote you again, zalew:

"the moment you should worry is when it stops being a scandal and starts being an accepted norm"

This is exactly what upsets me when talking to people about this. It seems as if we are starting to reach that stage.

zalew wrote:

second of all, contrary to some views, unless somebody lives in an oppressive country usually the govts aren't there to make your life miserable like orwell and shit. unlawful surveillance is a pathology and should be treated as such. it's abuse, and against abuse people should protect themselves. if somebody is protecting themselves against every point of contact with *the system*, because evil corpo 1984, it's not being conscious, it's tin-foil hat paranoia. privacy and security are not binary cases.

I also agree on that. But the problem is that it is generally outside of your sphere of influence whether the state you happen to live in turns into an oppressive one. That's why data shouldn't be collected in the way it is now.

Yes, also the abuse you mention is taking place - and has been taking place for quite some time. If you take notice of the different stories you catch here and there in the news about what intelligence agencies and political police units all over the world are doing - you know that the abuse is very real for certain people. Especially people outside the accepted political spectrums. Just look at Jacob Appelbaum for an example. Or the party "The Left" in Germany. I am far from being a commie or anything of the sort - but I think it is a shame that the government in Germany has the power to issue a directive to the intelligence service for the interior to spy on elected members of parliament. But exactly this is happening. And these things - naturally - are only the tip of the iceberg - since intelligence agencies don't usually publish their activities.

But as you correctly stated - trying to avoid any contact with the system is impossible and a waste of time. But there are enough choices one can make to mitigate the risk of giving data away that one wants to keep private.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-30 00:42:16)

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#35 2013-03-30 00:48:17

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

could you elaborate on 'the left' or post me some links? the only thing I know is that due the ddr/brd times, raf etc., you got a far left wing party delegalized and there came up traces of commies being active in the parliament, but I'm not sure what you are referring to here - is it something connected to this case?

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#36 2013-03-30 01:11:21

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

zalew wrote:

could you elaborate on 'the left' or post me some links? the only thing I know is that due the ddr/brd times, raf etc., you got a far left wing party delegalized and there came up traces of commies being active in the parliament, but I'm not sure what you are referring to here - is it something connected to this case?

Well, do you speak German? I am afraid all the media coverage on this is in fact in German.

But to explain the situation:

First of all the basis on which all political parties have to operate is the German constitution. You have to embrace the constitution in order to be allowed to be active as a party. This means you need to be for freedom (in the broader and more narrow sense e.g. freedom of speech) and democracy. As long as you accept these two principles as they are implemented in the civil rights section of the constitution you are good to go.

Then there is the intelligence agency that is responsible for gathering intel on people who in some way appear not to value these principles. Like neo-nazis, the militant left or muslim extremists.

But since the intelligence agencies in Germany are much better controlled democratically than their US-counterparts for example, they have to actually do what is asked of them. Sometimes they do weird stuff where nobody knows who gave the orders for that - but generally they act in the interest of the state and the government.

Now: If they see that a certain political party or group is taking actions or conspires against the constitutional order of the GFR they are allowed and encouraged to take a closer look at them. What they do varies with the intensity of the threat. Sometimes they will send in their operators or buy intel from insiders - but as it appears in most cases they simply watch the scene, read their magazines, attend their demonstrations etc. Nothing fancy. But as soon as it is clear that a group or party is clearly not interested in overthrowing the political order outlined in the constitution they have to stop watching them. That is also defined by law.

In this case Wolfgang Schäuble, the minister for the interior, member of the conservative party, issued a directive for the intelligence agency to spy on "the left". That means, the agency itself didn't actually consider them a threat to democracy. And when you take a look at their political activity there is no need to. In fact, they actually resemble what once was the social-democratic party. No communism left. No revolution. No abolition of capitalism. Some rather drastic economical measures here and there - but nothing too fancy - and nothing that hasn't been thought about by social-democrats in the past.

So, after Schäuble's mandate was up - the current minister renewed the directive. Which again indicates that the agency wasn't interested in them at all. They wouldn't be watching them if they wouldn't be told to do so.

What does this tell us? The government appears to actively abuse the intelligence agencies at its disposal to criminalize the opposition. Of course these things make it into the newspapers and the average person thinks: "Mhm. The intelligence agency is watching them. They must be up for some sick shit." So this is a political campaign against one of the strongest parties of the opposition using the legal infrastructure.

On the other hand there are real threats to democracy that need to be taken seriously like right-wing terrorism, left-wing terrorism, muslim extremist threats etc. that suffer from the lack of operators who have to read boring emails by elected members of parliament talking about stuff they might as well be reading in the newspaper.

Sorry for the long explanation - but I guess one needs to know a bit about the political system in Germany in order to understand this issue.

Edit:

But as said above once you order someone to look at something with a certain goal - you tend to see things. Some of them may actually be there others may not. And that's the problem. In this example the party "the left" has a communist group inside of them - the communist platform - but the party decided not to follow their line and become "a modern democratic socialist party" which I think they did manage to do. And I do have to mention that they are not monitored everywhere in Germany. Because the GFR is a federal republic the states can decide who to monitor and who not. And in fact that party is considered by a number of states to be no threat to democracy. Only those politically close to the government party, the conservatives consider them to be that which underlines that this measure seems to be quite arbitrary.

This surveillance also has been criticized by members of all the other parties in parliament. So I am not making an extreme case here. wink In Germany this has been issue of a lot of debate.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-30 19:46:37)

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#37 2013-03-30 02:22:04

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

cool, it's an interesting read. although I've learned some german, currently is not far more than ein bier bitte, so I'm sol or at the mercy of gtranslate. you know, due to our partly shared post-war history, you can imagine there has been a lot of commie witch-hunt around here too, so while I may not understand the specifics of German politics - I get the general point. on the topic of surveillance, 2 years ago it went public that various agencies got about 70k wire-taps a year here, and as it turned out the regulations were quite open about giving away warrants, it was a bit restricted since then though (sadly I believe not *too* restricted).

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#38 2013-03-30 02:46:16

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

zalew wrote:

cool, it's an interesting read. although I've learned some german, currently is not far more than ein bier bitte, so I'm sol or at the mercy of gtranslate. you know, due to our partly shared post-war history, you can imagine there has been a lot of commie witch-hunt around here too, so while I may not understand the specifics of German politics - I get the general point. on the topic of surveillance, 2 years ago it went public that various agencies got about 70k wire-taps a year here, and as it turned out the regulations were quite open about giving away warrants, it was a bit restricted since then though (sadly I believe not *too* restricted).

Then your German seems to be as good as my polish...

Yes, I can imagine. Wojtyla and such... big_smile I don't know that much about how the polish dealt with their history - but at least I visited the Solidarność-Museum in Danzig... wink The current politics seem to be rather conservative from what I hear.

In Germany they are getting around 30-40k wiretaps a year. But the general public couldn't care less.

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#39 2013-03-30 03:16:40

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

a good idea in when you're here is not to say 'danzig' for gdańsk big_smile cool you visited it, I didn't lol, but haven't been there for years, maybe next time.

>I don't know that much about how the polish dealt with their history
long story short: constantly dealing, most often in a very shitty way. I believe you dealt with it better and faster, like with most stuff, lol. the commie card gets pulled out like every other day in here.
yeah, the right wing is quite strong here, even in the liberal center; and our left mostly just sucks. not sure it's a topic for this forum though smile

Last edited by zalew (2013-03-30 03:18:58)

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#40 2013-03-30 03:43:46

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

zalew wrote:

a good idea in when you're here is not to say 'danzig' for gdańsk big_smile

Yeah, that's not historically sensitive, I guess. wink

zalew wrote:

not sure it's a topic for this forum though smile

Probably not. Politics shmolitics.

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#41 2013-03-30 06:49:35

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

You don't need to be paranoid to see that too much data about people is being collected that could easily be used in ways you don't want to think about now. Just take a fricking look at China. Is that so hard?

Sorry, man. I don't want to be rude - but this kind of ignorance to the demise of democracy and civil rights is pissing me off. Because it is so important.

Actually, I lived under two soft-core dictatorships, one communist, the other one "democratic". In both cases the government used everything available to monitor dissent among its citizens. Hell, the practice was so ingrained, I wouldn't be surprised if they took a look at me while I was working as a journalist (I was summoned to an interrogation when I called the cops "Bullen" - since you seem to speak German - in an article).

So, those of us who've experienced this kind of thing in real life, not as a thought concept, don't care as much about Walmart or Google or whatever collecting data about your condom purchases.

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#42 2013-03-30 10:55:38

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

el_koraco wrote:

Actually, I lived under two soft-core dictatorships, one communist, the other one "democratic". In both cases the government used everything available to monitor dissent among its citizens. Hell, the practice was so ingrained, I wouldn't be surprised if they took a look at me while I was working as a journalist (I was summoned to an interrogation when I called the cops "Bullen" - since you seem to speak German - in an article).

So, those of us who've experienced this kind of thing in real life, not as a thought concept, don't care as much about Walmart or Google or whatever collecting data about your condom purchases.

Ok, then at least you know what you are talking about. (Just to make clear where I'm coming from: I actually had family members who were killed in concentration camps - and have met people who were actively harassed by the Stasi. I am very grateful not to have to live under such circumstances.)

But I still have a hard time understanding why you don't see the corporate side of the spying-business as a problem. Even if none of the collected data would ever be abused right now - it's like raising a dog to be aggressive and having it running around your yard in the hope that he will not bite you...

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#43 2013-03-30 11:07:27

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

But I still have a hard time understanding why you don't see the corporate side of the spying-business as a problem.

For two reasons. One, it's opt-in. Yes, they have "tricks", but nobody is forcing you to share data, as much as bozo "security experts" would have you believe - I mean, they are selling a product themselves, it's just called paranoia.

Two, the end result of the lion share of corporate data mining is spam and has been for years. Medical equipment and drug suppliers, retail chains, pharmacies, vehicle manufacturers, all of them have been doing it since before the internet was thought of. I'm not worried about spam, we have spam filters after all.

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#44 2013-03-30 12:10:31

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

el_koraco wrote:
sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

But I still have a hard time understanding why you don't see the corporate side of the spying-business as a problem.

For two reasons. One, it's opt-in. Yes, they have "tricks", but nobody is forcing you to share data, as much as bozo "security experts" would have you believe - I mean, they are selling a product themselves, it's just called paranoia.

Two, the end result of the lion share of corporate data mining is spam and has been for years. Medical equipment and drug suppliers, retail chains, pharmacies, vehicle manufacturers, all of them have been doing it since before the internet was thought of. I'm not worried about spam, we have spam filters after all.

Yes, I agree.

There are several things though which I think could be a problem  - like centralized data about visited websites mined by tracking-companies for users with static IP-addresses etc. - but what troubles me much more is the legislation on what gov-agencies are allowed to do with it.

In the end every one is responsible for themselves. If you don't want your data being stored with google - don't use it. If you don't want to be tracked - then don't be tracked. Everybody that wants to be low-profile and generally untraceable can achieve that. It's just that people don't care enough and then sound their nonsense alarms when they read in Wired that xy "is happening", while all you need to do if you actually cared about your privacy is set up a few things, tell your friends you switched mail-addresses, shut down your FB-account and develop a few different habits on the web.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-30 12:11:34)

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#45 2013-03-30 17:18:14

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

There are several things though which I think could be a problem  - like centralized data about visited websites mined by tracking-companies for users with static IP-addresses etc. - but what troubles me much more is the legislation on what gov-agencies are allowed to do with it.

Well, these are useless without the ISPs giving info about the static addresses, which isn't possible without a warrant, so.

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#46 2013-03-30 19:32:16

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

el_koraco wrote:
sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

There are several things though which I think could be a problem  - like centralized data about visited websites mined by tracking-companies for users with static IP-addresses etc. - but what troubles me much more is the legislation on what gov-agencies are allowed to do with it.

Well, these are useless without the ISPs giving info about the static addresses, which isn't possible without a warrant, so.

Lucky you. In Germany they are changing this atm so that LE can use automated interfaces - without a warrant also for administrative offenses.

Last edited by sorcerer's_apprentice (2013-03-30 19:37:42)

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#47 2013-03-30 20:15:07

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:

Lucky you. In Germany they are changing this atm so that LE can use automated interfaces - without a warrant also for administrative offenses.

Well, again, it's the government. Private companies are in the same boat. Btw, props for the huge compositum noun in the name of the law. SCHMETTERLINGFLÜGEL!

As far as government surveilance is concerned, I am worried about new technologies and stuff. The only thing that gives me a peace of mind is the knowledge that governments are incredibly tech-illiterate.

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#48 2013-03-31 01:40:37

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

el_koraco wrote:

The only thing that gives me a peace of mind is the knowledge that governments are incredibly tech-illiterate.

+1 There has to be a good side to all of this. wink

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#49 2013-03-31 14:24:48

sorcerer's_apprentice
#! Junkie
From: oblivion
Registered: 2013-02-09
Posts: 293

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

sorcerer's_apprentice wrote:
el_koraco wrote:

The only thing that gives me a peace of mind is the knowledge that governments are incredibly tech-illiterate.

+1 There has to be a good side to all of this. wink

Speaking of which:

North_Korea_Cyber_Troops.jpg

Last edited by VastOne (2013-03-31 14:44:41)

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#50 2013-03-31 17:31:55

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,961

Re: The Internet Is a Surveillance State

In the country in which I live, the "wrong" views may harm me socially or in terms of employment or dating opportunities but I'm not going to be taken into a courtyard and shot for them.

That's good enough for me.

Meanwhile, this looks it might be actually worth pouting about : http://www.defectivebydesign.org/no-drm-in-html5


I was here. Here I was. Was I here? Existence is impermanent so yes and no.

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