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#1 2013-02-16 09:20:30

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: Not Where I Belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 1,864

Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

Retail Copies of Office 2013 Are Tied to a Single Computer Forever
http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-pick/ … -20130213/

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#2 2013-02-16 10:14:30

fatmac
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-11-14
Posts: 1,948

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

Yet another reason for people to choose to use FOSS.

Last edited by fatmac (2013-02-16 10:14:47)


Linux since 1999
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#3 2013-02-16 11:06:20

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

This is a pretty dickish move. With Office 2010 Home and Student, you get three licenses (not tied down to hardware) for less than 200 dollars. This pretty much covers 90 percent of small business needs anywhere in the world. I don't see how they plan to sell their new "features" to be honest, it's probably just gonna be one of those marketing campaigns which negate reality. Small businesses make about 90 percent of businesses in the Western and the developing world, where people actually pay for the software.

It's so interesting watching Microsoft concede the entire world to Google. I mean, it's not like they had to, but the shunning of carriers and partners in the mobile space, the throwing of money into markets where they can't possibly compete, abandoning their cash generating products for ridiculous lock-in deals...

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#4 2013-02-16 11:21:16

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,906

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

el_koraco wrote:

This is a pretty dickish move. With Office 2010 Home and Student, you get three licenses (not tied down to hardware) for less than 200 dollars. This pretty much covers 90 percent of small business needs anywhere in the world. I don't see how they plan to sell their new "features" to be honest, it's probably just gonna be one of those marketing campaigns which negate reality. Small businesses make about 90 percent of businesses in the Western and the developing world, where people actually pay for the software.

It's so interesting watching Microsoft concede the entire world to Google. I mean, it's not like they had to, but the shunning of carriers and partners in the mobile space, the throwing of money into markets where they can't possibly compete, abandoning their cash generating products for ridiculous lock-in deals...

The only flaw here is that technically they're not valid licenses for business use. So small businesses would find it hard to complain. Although I'm sure MS values their money.

Incidentally this is already what happens when you download Office from the net. You get one non-transferable license. Which doesn't work on Linux.


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2. ?
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#5 2013-02-16 11:53:09

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

intoCB wrote:

The only flaw here is that technically they're not valid licenses for business use. So small businesses would find it hard to complain. Although I'm sure MS values their money.

They're perfectly valid licenses for business use. For one thing, software license agreements are not legally binding documents, which is why DRM exists. For another, Microsoft doesn't have any way of determining in which setting a license is being used. They can call something "Microsoft Office for Alpha Centauri", as long as it installs on a computer, you can use it. They used to have pretty good business practices, offering volume licensing and other amenities to their larger clients, but Balmer has obviously decided to try to emulate Apple in the most idiotic ways possible.

It's quite amazing how little Microsoft knows about their customers. As things are shaping up, they will be relagated to a very low profitability sector of large business and vertical markets in a very short time. It's actually a historically interesting setting. We haven't seen a fall from grace such as this one since DEC (and most of us weren't around back then, so it's even more interesting).

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#6 2013-02-16 12:55:03

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,906

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools


FreeBSD installation plan:
1. portsnap fetch extract
2. ?
3. Operating system!

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#7 2013-02-16 13:31:36

schwim
#! Die Hard
From: Interweb's #1 Devotee
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 604

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

el_koraco wrote:

They can call something "Microsoft Office for Alpha Centauri", as long as it installs on a computer, you can use it.

I want that version.

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#8 2013-02-16 13:58:36

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

I don't care what Microsoft's lawyers say. The law is all that matters. Work-place inspections can't fine you for using the "wrong" SKU, and Microsoft has no way to tell  in which setting a copy of office is being used. The best they can do is refuse to sell H&S to businesses directly. However, most SMBs don't buy Office from Microsoft, they do so through retail channels. Not to mention that most of the world's governments don't find EULAs worth more than the digital paper they were printed on.

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#9 2013-02-16 14:01:59

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,906

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

No and I agree with you about usage etc. However, the terms of the license would limit the ability of small businesses to formally complain to Microsoft about the change. Their best bet is to switch to LibreOffice wink


FreeBSD installation plan:
1. portsnap fetch extract
2. ?
3. Operating system!

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#10 2013-02-16 14:44:12

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

Well, OK, Home and Business 2010 isn't that much expensive. It's 220 for two seats. So, for 440 you pretty much have an SMB covered for 10 years or so. 10 years of Office per subscription is more than twice as expensive (you do get an additional seat, but who cares). I really don't see how Microsoft imagines to lure customers in. The money itself isn't the issue here, 600 dollars is chump change for businesses, but you need to provide customers with some kind of incentive (all of their cloud BS is completely unimportant for people who think of the computers as the "hard drive" and dread updates as much as anything else having to do with the "hard drive").

Compare this to something like Google Docs, which lets you use it as much as you want, for free, with zero issues regarding setup, EULAs, Genuine Advantage, the bazillion dollars per year for your "IT guy" if you're unlucky enough not to have an employee with computer skills... I mean, Apple has perfected this thing where they keep milking you and you're somehow grateful for it, but it was never one of Microsoft's strong suites.

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#11 2013-02-16 15:01:38

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

gdocs for free is also free of support and free of claims for service interruption, and data damage/loss. sure, most of us use it as is, but for serious business applications you either switch to google apps (paid, free for <=10 users), ms office 365, or go offline.

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#12 2013-02-16 15:35:26

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

zalew wrote:

gdocs for free is also free of support and free of claims for service interruption, and data damage/loss.

It has a very easy to set up offline mode, decent documentation and I don't think people care much about support these days. I'm not saying it can measure to Office in features, but I am seeing two trends. On the one hand, Google is expanding the quality and availability of its applications at zero cost to the customer. On the other, Microsoft is limiting availability and introducing redundant features. It's kinda like when the old Unix vendors started gutting the OS and charging extra for stuff like networking and compiling software. 

The only thing left for them is the "serious business" argument, which essentially means format lock-in. The software industry has a long history of nuking this kind of practice out of orbit as soon as the cost to benefit ratio exceeds a certain barrier and as soon as a new computing paradigm (such as personal computing in the 90s or mobile computing today) comes about.

Last edited by el_koraco (2013-02-16 15:38:30)

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#13 2013-02-16 18:06:02

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

> The only thing left for them is the "serious business" argument, which essentially means format lock-in

sure. my guess and anegdotal evidence is that most ms clients are still ms clients due to legacy - proprietary formats and vendor locked-in custom software. let's look at another example - there are quite a few municipalities that switched most of their administration apparatus to linux, but let's face it - while in the long run it's a safe bet, in the short run is a huge investment and a political risk, and in many environments there is a practice of not lifting a finger without proper lobby pressure. ms may be losing the cool kids to webapps and thin clients, but I can bet a huge bottle that ms has their ass covered for a few more very long years in corporate and administration.

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#14 2013-02-16 19:34:03

Dobbie03
Resident Metaller
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1,575

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

KrunchTime wrote:

Retail Copies of Office 2013 Are Tied to a Single Computer Forever
http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-pick/ … -20130213/

I discovered that when I went to install my unused copy of 8 on my old mans computer.

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#15 2013-02-16 19:53:18

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,498

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

M$ ... dikish you say ??!?!? NEVER ... errrr, well they've actually elevated dikish bizness practices to an artform. Long since been SOP ( standard operating procedure.) for em, shrugs.

Pointlessly agreeing with the person who said "one more reason to look @ FOSS alternatives." Why people haven't long since done so ... I dunno. Guess they like paying too much for crappy software and/or have someone else paying the bill for crappy software. ie: US taxpayers and equivalent around the world.

In that context, it really doesn't matter how much it costs, how good it is etc/ so forth. When someone else is paying for it and M$ is dishing out fat kickbacks for using it to the select few. It's not like "decision makers" have much reason to care what's going on. As long as they get their cut of course ... More shrugs.


Vll!


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

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#16 2013-02-16 23:15:52

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

zalew wrote:

ms may be losing the cool kids to webapps and thin clients, but I can bet a huge bottle that ms has their ass covered for a few more very long years in corporate and administration.

Forget the marketing lingo, and the separation between a "full OS" like Windows or Linux and a "thin client" or "consumption device" like a smartphone.

The corporate and administration sector is much less profitable than the consumer one. Office has never been the cash cow because of the big contracts, it was the big cash cow because everyone who used office software used desktops nad laptops, with Windows. In a few years time, people will carry around a smartphone, which they will dock into clamshells and monitors, in the workplace and in their free time. The OS won't matter much. I mean, most of it will be Android, but the competition will be much healthier than it is today. You need to stay competitive in this space (the average lifespan of a smartphone is 9 months), and your standard multi-GB office tied to one computer is not enough.

This is why everyone is trying to move to the subscription based type of service. If the choice is between a costly spreadsheet-as-database and word-processor-as-desktop-publishing solution and a free and simple suite, well, guess what the customers will choose. Microsoft hasn't decided what they want to do there, so they're putting out a ransacked online version of Office and and trying to milk their customers while they still have a chance. Kinda like with Windows 8, they chose the worst possible route. It will only be a matter of time until you have forms that say "must be submitted in .doc, .docx form or as a Google Drive document".

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#17 2013-02-17 08:18:41

Rothchild
New Member
Registered: 2013-01-21
Posts: 7

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

intoCB wrote:

Their best bet is to switch to LibreOffice wink

If only Calc didn't suck so hard compared to excel I'd agree, making tables with multisheet data sources in LibreOffice is no 'fun' whatsoever.

Still, if more people do jump ship to FOSS then maybe the devs will be a little more motivated to raise their game?

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#18 2013-02-17 08:24:29

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 12,150

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

Rothchild wrote:

Still, if more people do jump ship to FOSS then maybe the devs will be a little more motivated to raise their game?

This is the point I've been trying to make to the FOSS developer foals.


I'm a moderator here.  How are we doing?  Feedback is encouraged.

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#19 2013-02-17 08:38:07

Rothchild
New Member
Registered: 2013-01-21
Posts: 7

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

Yup, and as I re-read it I realise I've got it the wrong way around. It should be: If the developers raise their game, maybe more people will come over.

Writer is pretty well fine as far as I can tell, but calc is really a rather poor imitation of excel (though it pains me to say!)

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#20 2013-02-18 10:51:57

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

Look, even the ArsTechnica Microsoft fanboais agree with me: http://arstechnica.com/information-tech … ogle-docs/

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#21 2013-02-19 19:58:51

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: Not Where I Belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 1,864

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

Dobbie03 wrote:
KrunchTime wrote:

Retail Copies of Office 2013 Are Tied to a Single Computer Forever
http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-pick/ … -20130213/

I discovered that when I went to install my unused copy of 8 on my old mans computer.

If you mean a copy that came with a purchased machine, then that's nothing new.  OEM versions of Windows have worked that way for quite some time.

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#22 2013-03-04 15:05:41

cortman
#! CrunchBanger
From: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 128

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

When will the LibreOffice team update the suite's UI? It looks rather depressingly Office '97-ish...
Sure, it works, but with all other UI's in the GNU/Linux world looking as slick and modern as they do, LO or OOO sticks out like a sore thumb.


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#23 2013-03-04 22:32:54

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: Not Where I Belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 1,864

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

cortman wrote:

When will the LibreOffice team update the suite's UI? It looks rather depressingly Office '97-ish...
Sure, it works, but with all other UI's in the GNU/Linux world looking as slick and modern as they do, LO or OOO sticks out like a sore thumb.

Actually, the LibreOffice UI under Linux isn't that bad IMO.  Now, if you're talking about LibreOffice under Windows or Mac OS X, then you have a valid argument.  I'm probably going to incur the wrath of some of the forum members for saying that, but oh well.

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#24 2013-03-04 22:44:02

crash_harddrive
Member
From: Troy, Ohio
Registered: 2013-01-26
Posts: 36
Website

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

I've been using LibreOffice at home since long before they they forked it, but I have to admit that enterprise doesn't have that option - depending on your needs. My business leans heavily on Access database for many home-grown databases, and LibreOffice doesn't fulfill that need. Sure, if you know MySQL you can roll your own, but the average office worker doesn't have the training or the know-how to deal with open source. Try converting an MS office database, with all the Visual Basic built-in into LibreOffice and let me know how that works for you.


Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly or idiot-friendly.

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#25 2013-03-04 22:45:45

KrunchTime
#! Die Hard
From: Not Where I Belong
Registered: 2012-03-02
Posts: 1,864

Re: Microsoft - Bumbling Fools

crash_harddrive wrote:

I've been using LibreOffice at home since long before they they forked it, but I have to admit that enterprise doesn't have that option - depending on your needs. My business leans heavily on Access database for many home-grown databases, and LibreOffice doesn't fulfill that need. Sure, if you know MySQL you can roll your own, but the average office worker doesn't have the training or the know-how to deal with open source. Try converting an MS office database, with all the Visual Basic built-in into LibreOffice and let me know how that works for you.

I agree with your opinion.

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