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#1 2013-01-22 10:04:35

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,852

Ubuntu "spyware"

Short version:

Canonical is a really cute/friendly company who only wants to be your friend.

Last edited by intoCB (2013-01-28 11:35:39)

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#2 2013-01-22 10:17:04

fatmac
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-11-14
Posts: 1,948

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

At least these days there are options for non computer literate people to have a real choice of OS.
Whether they choose MS, Apple, Linux, or even BSD, they can setup & run their computer without too much grief.
Every OS can have a nice desktop GUI, which most newbies like. Choice is good, people win.


Linux since 1999
Currently:  AntiX, & Crunchbang.
A good general beginners book for Linux :- http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz
A good Debian read :- http://debian-handbook.info/get/now/

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#3 2013-01-22 11:09:10

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,852

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Yes, there's lots of choice now. #! fits me like a glove but admittedly it's not for everyone.

It's a fun time to be in computing. Ok, times are economically hard these days but computing/technology is in great shape.

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#4 2013-01-22 11:22:36

pmo
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2013-01-08
Posts: 29
Website

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

intoCB wrote:

Like many people, I prefer CrunchBang and in fact I came here originally out of disappointment over Ubuntu 12.10 but let's cease all the Ubuntu-bashing. Canonical is not the enemy and even in the world of Linux - at every level from desktop to supercomputer - it is ultimately a rather small fish.
.

Btw many tend to drop #! again after a while with "complaints" of "old packages". Don't leave cuz of that, debian "stable" as crunchbang is based on is the Server/prod. version of Debian.  To get "up to date" packages, upgrade to Crunchbang Waldorf that is based on Debian Testing AKA the Desktop version of Debian.

Crunchbang Waldorf (Desktop version of Debian) can be downloaded ->here<-

p.s
Ubuntu is based on Debian unstable (You can see it as beta version of Debian)

Cheers.

Last edited by pmo (2013-01-22 11:24:00)


Catch me on irc.freenode.net @ #crunchbang - pmo

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#5 2013-01-22 14:28:57

anonymous
The Mystery Member
From: Arch Linux Forums
Registered: 2008-11-29
Posts: 9,359

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Not to get too off-topic but Waldorf Wheezy will become the next Stable so if you want updated packages when that happens, you'll have to switch your repos to testing or whatever its name will be.


Note: ** Please read before posting **

BTW if you wish to contact me, send me an e-mail instead of a PM.

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#6 2013-01-22 14:40:29

pmo
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2013-01-08
Posts: 29
Website

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

anonymous wrote:

Not to get too off-topic but Waldorf Wheezy will become the next Stable so if you want updated packages when that happens, you'll have to switch your repos to testing or whatever its name will be.

Yup stay on testing smile


Catch me on irc.freenode.net @ #crunchbang - pmo

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#7 2013-01-22 17:22:34

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,852

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Thanks but I use Waldorf already, Sid even smile

I have no complaints about CrunchBang whatsoever - just not sure everyone likes minimalism.

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#8 2013-01-22 17:41:59

NNJRob
Member
Registered: 2013-01-14
Posts: 18

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Well, I try not to speak ill of ANY Linux distro. I've tried MANY, and the only ones I haven't learned SOMETHING useful from. are the one I couldn't get to work at all! (mixture of hardware incompatibility and/or user incompetence  wink  ) So far, ive found #! to have the answer to any of my questions, easily found with a search or 5, or 6... and the folks here are first rate

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#9 2013-01-22 18:08:52

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

intoCB wrote:

Ubuntu's alleged spyware move

there's a picture describing my particular concerns with the issue:

Care_O_Meter.jpg

Last edited by zalew (2013-01-22 18:13:08)

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#10 2013-01-22 18:54:53

lcafiero
The #! Guy
From: Felton, California, USA
Registered: 2011-07-21
Posts: 2,102
Website

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Taking off my moderator's hat and putting it aside, because apparently there are some here who think that because I'm a mod, I'm not entitled to have an opinion . . .

My criticism of Canonical/Ubuntu is well documented elsewhere so I won't go into it here. I also won't bring up the well-documented fact that historically Canonical/Ubuntu doesn't give back to the wider FOSS community at the same level as FOSS leaders like Red Hat, Novell (through OpenSUSE) and communities like Debian. Heck, I won't even bring up the fact that Mark Shuttleworth misguidedly thinks that Debian is part of the "Ubuntu ecosystem" when clearly it's the other way around, or that you have to go at least two or three levels down in the Ubuntu web site to even find the word "Linux."

But never mind all that. The rest of the original post is hyperbole, as far as I'm concerned, but I wanted to address is this:

intoCB wrote:

However, take Ubuntu out of the picture and the most user-friendly distros we're left with are OpenSUSE or Mageia.

Only two user-friendly distros? Really? How about Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, SolusOS, Snowlinux, Fuduntu? Those are the ones I can only name off the top of my head -- and there are a host of others which are "user-friendly" depending on a user's abilities (bear in mind that not all non-Linux users are Neanderthals staring at you from the opening of their caves as you hand them a laptop and an Ubuntu live CD). If by "user-friendly" you mean what works for an individual, you can add even more to it -- and clearly you can even include CrunchBang for those who consider their computers more of a tool than an appliance. Suffice to say there are a lot more than only two "user-friendly" distros, and the fact that there are many speaks to the strength of FOSS, not its weakness.

. . . putting my hat back on and resuming my day.


Res publica non dominetur | Larry the CrunchBang Guy speaks of the pompetous of CrunchBang

CrunchBang Forum moderator

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#11 2013-01-22 20:49:46

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,852

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

What does "giving back" really mean?

Linux Mint is built upon Ubuntu, so Clément Lefèbvre sees the value of Canonical's work even if no one else does. Mint could be built on Debian alone, like #! is, but the Linux Mint Debian Edition exists and yet is not a priority.

PCLinuxOS: I only tried their Openbox edition and thought it was unimaginative and about as appealing as a transvestite but maybe other editions are better.

SolusOS: buggy. The install script actually interferes with you setting up the system and gufw shuts everything down, even your basic access to the internet. I had to learn about IP tables just to get a working system. No bad thing in the long-term scheme of things but hardly user-friendly.

Fuduntu: I haven't tried it and will do so asap. But surely its name is a nod of the cap towards Ubuntu, implicitly acknowledging the latter's worth.

Snow Linux: pop-ups on the homepage. Some of the editions are based on Ubuntu. Hmm.

Don't get me wrong, I trust Mark "Cthulhu" Shuttleworth about as far as I can throw him and I came to #! as a 12.10 refugee. It's just that I think there is a mood in the community against Canonical which is irrational and has moved from disaffection into bullying.

Linux is very easy. Don't like distro x? Take distro y. Problem solved.

Yet it's not so with things like UEFI.

So even if Canonical is evil personified, it's a comparatively minor evil.

Hyperbole?

I might be trigger-happy in my opinions. It's called honesty, a much-maligned value in our 'echo "hi how are you? :-)" && backstab' age. But I'd be willing to explain/defend any single one of these opinions, if you would find it useful.

I'm not pro-Ubuntu. I installed it last week for the umpteenth time and thought it was an ill-conceived memory-heavy orange mess. However, I don't hate it. And yet... some people seem to.

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#12 2013-01-22 21:23:29

Rothchild
New Member
Registered: 2013-01-21
Posts: 7

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

I've been using Ubuntu for a good few years now and I think it sets a very high benchmark for any other consumer oriented distros as to how Linux should be approached in terms of ease of use. I know it's a contentious view but I actually quite like Unity, the screen space it freed up and the blending of the menu bar and the window header is really clever and a great space saver.

The reason I've moved away from such a great distro though is the line that was crossed (for me) in going 'social' especially the use of the navigator search box being used as a marketing data source. Yes, it can be turned off, but at the end of the day the only way to really discourage them from going further with such ideas is by drawing a real line in the sand and not using it.

And now you guys have to put up with me ;-) sorry!

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#13 2013-01-22 21:35:01

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,852

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Welcome aboard, Rothchild. And you're right, the "social" aspects of Ubuntu were ill-conceived. They may well even prove its downfall. Thankfully none of that on Crunch ;-) Unless there's a Waterstones conky around the corner.

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#14 2013-01-22 21:37:09

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 11,443

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

@Rothchild:  So far, most of the posts in this thread have largely been debate about just how much Ubuntu sucks, or the reasons why it sucks.  It's refreshing to hear from the other side of the aisle!

Me, I'm neutral; haven't touched anything *buntu since 9.10.  I liked earlier versions, but I doubt there's a fine enough metric to measure my enthusiasm for anything Canonical at this time.


Yes; as a matter of fact, I am a cop.  Why do you ask? cool
I'm a moderator here.  How are we doing?  Feedback is encouraged.

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#15 2013-01-22 21:37:33

wuxmedia
wookiee madclaw
From: Back in Blighty
Registered: 2012-03-09
Posts: 1,443
Website

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

ubuntu server's quite nice. noX.
i messed up my fstab - the recovery mode was in read only... not much help for editing the file.
not actually installed ubuntu desktop

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#16 2013-01-22 21:46:23

JT
Member
Registered: 2012-12-23
Posts: 15

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

I think there are two huge advantages of having Ubuntu out there.

1. Ubuntu is a gateway distribution. I'm sure we all want as many people as possible to use a Linux distribution. With Ubuntu the initial transition is super-easy. Then they can move onto other distributions and the Linux ecosystem as a whole benifits.

2. Steam. I'm not a huge gamer but many people are stuck on windows because none of their games work on Linux. The Ubuntu LTS release is great for steam and consequently the Linux community.

I do think there are reasons to keep an eye on Ubuntu. But the more distributions the merrier in my opinion. It's time to get people off M$ products all together and really engaging with open source code.

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#17 2013-01-23 02:40:05

pmo
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2013-01-08
Posts: 29
Website

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

intoCB wrote:

Thanks but I use Waldorf already, Sid even smile

I have no complaints about CrunchBang whatsoever - just not sure everyone likes minimalism.

Both thumbs up! smile


Catch me on irc.freenode.net @ #crunchbang - pmo

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#18 2013-01-23 03:39:14

mynis01
#! Die Hard
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2010-07-02
Posts: 1,929

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

I personally wish steam and other apps were built for Fedora or Debian instead. The way different versions of apps are chosen in the Ubuntu universe is kinda schizophrenic. As a result, sometimes it's hard to find just the right combination of software versions to make all your stuff work right when you aren't running Ubuntu.

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#19 2013-01-23 05:39:20

vlax
#! Member
From: Alcatraz
Registered: 2012-12-25
Posts: 77
Website

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

zalew wrote:
intoCB wrote:

Ubuntu's alleged spyware move

there's a picture describing my particular concerns with the issue:

http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/Care_O_Meter.jpg

+1  devil  devil  lol  lol

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#20 2013-01-23 08:44:49

Iranon
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2012-03-10
Posts: 248

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Agree with the general consensus here.

It's nice to have a newbie-friendly consumer-friendly Linux out there. Ubuntu is innovating nicely along that path; some things are slightly distasteful but the overall direction is solid:
they're responding to the privacy concerns, and with more vendors in it'll actually feel like a convenience feature than "Amazon ads".

Not particularly interesting for me, but the more civilised versions will benefit from wider interest in Linux and use beyond the free software ecosystem.


LEGO won't be ready for the average user until it comes pre-assembled, in a single  unified look, and glued together so it doesn't come apart.

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#21 2013-01-23 09:31:18

TeoBigusGeekus
#! Die Hard
From: /Greece/Kastoria
Registered: 2012-04-28
Posts: 657

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

My 2 drachmas on the subject.

At the end of the day, the contribution of Ubuntu to the linux world is positive.
As reverend Torvalds put it, it made debian usable. Hadn't it been for its ease of use and installation, I'd never have been bothered to install Gutsy Gibbon back in 2007 and get to know something different than windows.
So, IMO, Ubuntu's greatest gift to Linux is the influx of new users. Although some people disagree about the fact that more users is better for the FOSS world, one cannot deny that more linux users will result in the demand for more linux software (and of better quality as well).

On the other hand, ease of use and installation aside, Ubuntu's one of the most mediocre distros out there, in terms of stability. Ubuntu's like the kindergarten of linux, a training period that everyone has to pass before switching to something better. Ubuntu is like your first sex experience: that ugly fat girl/boy, with the glasses and the acne, that introduced you to the adult world. It's something that had to be done, a sweet memory, but if you're stuck with it forever and don't look for something else, well... you do miss a lot of things.


Please make Autocad Civil 3D and Archicad work on Linux!
Please make Autocad Civil 3D and Archicad work on Linux!
Please make Autocad Civil 3D and Archicad work on Linux!
Please make Autocad Civil 3D and Archicad work on Linux!

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#22 2013-01-23 09:34:45

Naik
#! Die Hard
From: Leipzig
Registered: 2012-11-16
Posts: 526

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

intoCB wrote:

Welcome aboard, Rothchild. And you're right, the "social" aspects of Ubuntu were ill-conceived. They may well even prove its downfall. Thankfully none of that on Crunch ;-) Unless there's a Waterstones conky around the corner.

Thats the reason i left ubuntu too ok, this and the fact that my T60-thinkpad could use something less bloated and faster.
But without ubuntu i would have never (i mean NEVER EVER) been able to get my wife and so much of my frinds to use linux.
all of them switched to the distros that suits best  for the individuale, but all of them came on in through ubuntu and
with the ubuntu-server running my brother and i are on a good way to get the whole office of my moms workplace linuxiced...
So it is absolutly true that there is a need for the big orange mess to build a brigde between the big gray/lightblue mess form M$ and the shaped individual messes users could achive with linux..

but btw whats all that fuzz about Waterstone conky?? in only found a book about a kangaroo on some kind of online-bookstore-guide-thingy... what has this to do with crunchbang?


*kaum macht man es richtig, funktioniert es sofort* | my blog

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#23 2013-01-23 13:23:57

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,476

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Despite better judgement, posting anyway. tongue

Am siding w lcafiero in part,  maybe not verbatim ... But overall. There are more "newb" friendly mainstream distro's than someone can shake a stick @. My belief someone can visit distrowatch, close eyes and pick at random and isn't likely to select much worse than buntu.

Having hopped through a couple dozen "distros". Found many I liked MUCH more than Canonical Inc's take on gnu/nix. Crunchbang  being one such, maintained by a single person, with a mere fraction of the monetary, marketing, promotion or personnel resources enjoyed by Canonical Inc. Should've started with #! ( almost did ... but the intimidating disclaimer put me off.) Rather than LM ...

Been awhile, since I've had any reason to care but by buntu's own admission, last time I checked, they admitted that roughly 4 out of 5 packages that comprised ubuntu were unchanged Debian software. To say Mint is "based" on buntu, while buntu is "based" on majority Debian is odd to me. While o course buntu is endeavoring in making their software "incompatible" w Debian, fact of the matter is buntu's software ... is nothing buntu had any hand in creating. The majority of the other 20% or so of FOSS that makes up ubuntu is also nothing Canonical Inc had any hand in creating too surely.

"Giving back" means exactly that ... Giving back to the FOSS software that's being taken from. Have seen youtube conferences where many of the biggest names in FOSS have called buntu/Canonical Inc out for being a taker and refusing to give back. Fact remember one, where Micro$oft contributed more to gnu/nix in terms of kernel development/patches than buntu did. I mean ouch, we're taking about M$ giving more back  to gnu/Linux than ubuntu has.

More than likely the result of one of a gazillion anti-trust suits M$ has lost or settled out of court. Not that M$ wants to feed the competition, they were more than likely legally ordered to do so kinda deal. Same time, from other posts, gather intoCB is going through some harsh personal times, which suks. Don't want to aggravate that, as times are hard enough for everybody.

Only advising perhaps that folks remember, you have every right to like something and others have every right NOT to like something as well, for whatever reasons/facts/etc so forth they might deem fit. I have no problem with people liking buntu, that's each persons choice, though do take issue when someone makes a big deal out of me disliking them ( for however many reasons.) If you like a particular gnu/nix distro or FOSS project  ... By all means, you're free to use it and I won't mind it. wink


Vll! smile

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2013-01-23 13:41:25)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#24 2013-01-25 21:19:54

intoCB
Scatweasel
Registered: 2012-10-25
Posts: 1,852

Re: Ubuntu "spyware"

Ubuntu did a lot to make using Linux less like a drab Friday night out in Slough, so I think we can be grateful for that.

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