Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

iamnutz · 2012-09-28 18:49:34

pvsage wrote:

Version: 2.2.0-3crunchbang1
You have the CrunchBang version. Try this to get the one from Testing:
sudo apt-get install -t testing libxft2 --reinstall
Worked for me.

That did force a reinstall yet still reports crunchbang version, also did the font reconfigure. Not a fan of synaptic either but did search for libxft2 and only 1 version available which is of course installed. Also el_koraco mentioned the libcairo2 but found all libcairo libs installed so checked that also:

Package: libcairo2
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: libs
Installed-Size: 1471
Maintainer: Dave Beckett <dajobe@debian.org>
Architecture: amd64
Multi-Arch: same
Source: cairo
Version: 1.12.2-2
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.11), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.9.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.5), libpixman-1-0 (>= 0.21.6), libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.13-4), libx11-6, libxcb-render0, libxcb-shm0, libxcb1 (>= 1.6), libxrender1, zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4)
Pre-Depends: multiarch-support
Breaks: iceape-browser (<= 2.0.3-3), libgtk-directfb-2.0-0, xulrunner-1.9, xulrunner-1.9.1 (<= 1.9.1.8-3)

just seems to me the fonts used to be whiter or brighter?

Last edited by iamnutz (2012-09-28 18:51:31)

pvsage · 2012-09-28 19:25:01

Even after this, fonts just seem less sharp/crisp, especially whatever the default sans serif font is in the CrunchBang forum.

Anyway, since doing anything with Waldorf. for me, involves hauling out a 50' Cat5e cable, I'm still sticking with Statler for the time being, but I'll probably have a couple more goes at reconfiguring the fonts in Waldorf next week.

el_koraco · 2012-09-28 19:47:39

pvsage wrote:

Even after this, fonts just seem less sharp/crisp, especially whatever the default sans serif font is in the CrunchBang forum.

Did you try to put rgba to grayscale? This needs to go in .fonts.conf

<match target="font" >
     <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" >
       <const>grayscale</const>
     </edit>
   </match>

Last edited by el_koraco (2012-09-28 19:49:22)

el_koraco · 2012-09-28 19:50:41

iamnutz wrote:

just seems to me the fonts used to be whiter or brighter?

Can I see output of

apt-cache policy libxft2 libcairo2

iamnutz · 2012-09-28 21:59:18

changed the "rgb" input to "greyscale" without and with re-configure but appears unchanged, however the policy output is:

libxft2:
  Installed: 2.2.0-3crunchbang1
  Candidate: 2.2.0-3crunchbang1
  Version table:
     2.3.1-1 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages
 *** 2.2.0-3crunchbang1 0
       1001 http://packages.crunchbang.org/waldorf/ waldorf/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libcairo2:
  Installed: 1.12.2-2
  Candidate: 1.12.2-2
  Version table:
 *** 1.12.2-2 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

I will say the fonts that did appear broken/incomplete in previous versions are now fully defined and nicely rendered, I think a whiter appeareance would bring out the crisper look

el_koraco · 2012-09-28 22:23:12

If you want the default Debian rendering, you need to force the version thus:

sudo apt-get install -t wheezy libxft2

iamnutz · 2012-09-28 23:30:36

el_koraco wrote:

If you want the default Debian rendering, you need to force the version thus:
sudo apt-get install -t wheezy libxft2 

apt-get loves to argue, even adding a + on the end of libxft2 it still insisten newest version installed, so I went with:

sudo apt-get install -t wheezy libxft2=2.3.1-1

and succeeded to install and reverse installed version and now have:

dug@4winds:~$ sudo apt-cache policy libxft2 libcairo2
libxft2:
  Installed: 2.3.1-1
  Candidate: 2.2.0-3crunchbang1
  Version table:
 *** 2.3.1-1 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     2.2.0-3crunchbang1 0
       1001 http://packages.crunchbang.org/waldorf/ waldorf/main amd64 Packages

@pvsage - this worked, thanks for helping me figure this out guys!

iamnutz · 2012-09-28 23:59:59

OH NO! Just saw the updated image came out roll glad I saved all these font cmds big_smile

pvsage · 2012-09-29 05:31:24

^ Looks like it's time to look into individual package pinning! lol wink

kenwong · 2012-10-01 05:37:43

Just installed Waldorf but prefer the fonts in Statler. I followed the step of iamnutz above

sudo apt-get install -t wheezy libxft2=2.3.1-1

but don't notice any changes. Don't know whether my issue is the same as the one discussed here.

As shown in the screenshots below, the fonts, especially the Chinese characters, are not as sharp as those in Statler.

Any idea? Thanks in advance.

johnraff · 2012-10-02 11:49:07

@kenwong are those screenshots from Iceweasel? They look a lot like the similar issues I had with Japanese characters on some sites (Twitter & Facebook maybe?) after an Iceweasel/Firefox upgrade. It turned out Iw wasn't using the font I'd selected, and eventually came down to the font for "Serif" I think, even though my default choice was a "Sans-serif" font. Anyway, I don't know if tweaking Iceweasel's font settings might help...

pvsage · 2012-10-02 12:49:24

@johnraff: It looks to me like Iceweasel is using the same font in both those scrots; looks like the idfferences are in how the font is rendered.

@kenwong: That's exactly what I'm talking about, and why I started this thread. Thank you for posting screenshots that so clearly show the difference and how the Ubuntu rendering can have a negative impact on readability; I'd been meaning to do the same, but never got a round tuit.

el_koraco · 2012-10-02 13:34:06

If IceTurtle is the problem, then try to apply your settings to .Xdefaults or .Xresources as well. The syntax is:

Xft.autohint: 0
Xft.antialias: 1
Xft.hinting: true
Xft.hintstyle: hintfull
Xft.rgba: rgb
Xft.lcdfilter: lcddefault

You need to run xrdb -merge .Xresources if you're using that file.

Last edited by el_koraco (2012-10-02 13:35:35)

machinebacon · 2012-10-02 14:28:53

@kenwong

I know this problem with the Chinese fonts, they look incosistent. Don't know which you have installed, but I usually pick the ttf-arphic-uming and ttf-arhpic-ukai, as well as the xfonts-wqy, ttf-wqy-zenhei and ttf-wqy-microhei. Maybe one of them will bring you betters results with slightly optimized settings (changing the hinting to lowest settings and playing around with RGB)

kenwong · 2012-10-02 15:02:58

@johnraff: Yes, the two screenshots were taken from iceweasel, with the first one on Waldorf (20120927) (IW version 10.0.7) and the second one on Statler (20111125) (IW version 15.0). The two #!s are running on two different machines but with same resolution (1024x768) and I guess this doesn't matter. Both the two IWs have the same font settings.

@machinebacon: On both machines, I picked only ttf-arphic-uming. In fact, I didn't need to set it up for Waldorf as the Chinese characters displayed correctly out-of-the-box in IW. While, on Statler, I had to set it up myself and I like this font more.

Here is another example in which I noticed something interesting.

In the first screenshot, the fonts are not sharp and characters are not very readable. By default, Traditional Chinese - Big 5 is used when the webpage is opened in IW.

In the second screenshot, I changed the encoding to Traditional Chinese - Big 5 HKSCS. Note that, on Statler, I got the same characters but without the need to change the encoding to Traditional Chinese - Big 5 HKSCS.

pvsage · 2012-10-02 15:24:22

^ Looking carefully at those two screenshots, I notice that changing to HKSCS also cleans up the font rendering on the Roman characters. The plot thickens.

johnraff · 2012-10-03 12:27:33

Fx/Iw seems to change its font depending on the encoding, and I think its behaviour changed around ver 10 or so? My issue was that Fx thought it was in some situation when my choice of font didn't apply, so I was getting some crummy "default" font, with results that looked just like yours kenwong. Those screenshots really look to me like different fonts, not bad rendering. I fixed it by going all over the fonts settings and changing everything to my chosen font. Don't forget the "other languages" setting - I think that's for unicode, which many pages are using now. And both the serif and sans-serif settings.

Last edited by johnraff (2012-10-03 12:29:42)

pvsage · 2012-10-03 13:25:52

@johnraff: I don't really want to get too much into a discussion about font design in this thread, and I concede that there's only so much font designers can do with majuscule characters in a basic sans-serif typeface, but judging from the Q, G, K, and the relative widths of O and 0, I'm fairly certain the Roman characters are in the same font. However, looking really carefully at the Kanji characters (and conceding that I know nothing about reading Chinese), I agree that those appear to be two different fonts.

kenwong · 2012-10-03 14:51:06

johnraff wrote:

Fx/Iw seems to change its font depending on the encoding, and I think its behaviour changed around ver 10 or so? ...

Will a upgrade of Firefox/Iceweasel help?

johnraff · 2012-10-03 16:02:26

@pv I think it's even possible that Fx is switching fonts between Roman and Chinese or Japanese characters in the same sentence. I didn't look at the Roman too carefully because it was the kanji rendering that was bothering me and I finally (in my own case) discovered that the fonts were changing for sure. Even hiragana and kanji seemed to be in different fonts! sad

@kenw In fact, I found it was the upgrade of Fx that started the trouble. It was fine a few versions back. As I suggested, have a look at all your font settings in Fx, not forgetting "other languages" and both serif and sans-serif. (I think Fx might now be interpreting some sites' choice of italic font-style as a serif font for Japanese or Chinese, ie whatever font is chosen for "serif".)

Last edited by johnraff (2012-10-03 16:09:37)

machinebacon · 2012-10-03 19:40:58

This is interesting - "what is displayed <-> what it should look like"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Multi … t_Asian%29

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-10-03 19:41:39)

pvsage · 2012-10-03 20:19:00

^ Yup...still missing a few characters in the Vietnamese language BTW...

kenwong · 2012-10-04 03:07:28

The differences in the bolded letters (the names of pvsage and machinebacon) are obvious but you can still notice that the normal ones are different.

Statler

Waldorf

Edit: Just noticed that the user cannot zoom in/out the images here. Is it the setting of the forum or the host of my pictures?

Last edited by kenwong (2012-10-04 03:10:49)

johnraff · 2012-10-04 04:25:04

machinebacon wrote:

This is interesting - "what is displayed <-> what it should look like"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Multi … t_Asian%29

In my case, I preferred what is displayed to what they thought it should look like.:
vZnF3ZQ On #! Statler, font VLP Gothic. Of course tastes vary.

btw one simple test: copy & paste a bit of text from Fx to a text editor and compare.

kenwong · 2012-10-05 08:24:58

Even the fonts in Terminal look different from previously in Statler?

CrunchBang Linux

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#26 2012-09-28 18:49:34

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#27 2012-09-28 19:25:01

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#28 2012-09-28 19:47:39

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#29 2012-09-28 19:50:41

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#30 2012-09-28 21:59:18

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#31 2012-09-28 22:23:12

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#32 2012-09-28 23:30:36

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#33 2012-09-28 23:59:59

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#34 2012-09-29 05:31:24

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#35 2012-10-01 05:37:43

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#36 2012-10-02 11:49:07

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#37 2012-10-02 12:49:24

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#38 2012-10-02 13:34:06

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#39 2012-10-02 14:28:53

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#40 2012-10-02 15:02:58

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#41 2012-10-02 15:24:22

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#42 2012-10-03 12:27:33

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#43 2012-10-03 13:25:52

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#44 2012-10-03 14:51:06

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#45 2012-10-03 16:02:26

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#46 2012-10-03 19:40:58

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#47 2012-10-03 20:19:00

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#48 2012-10-04 03:07:28

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#49 2012-10-04 04:25:04

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

#50 2012-10-05 08:24:58

Re: Debian-style font rendering in Waldorf?

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