Statler-to-Waldorf upgrade path?

machinebacon · 2012-06-13 05:25:50

@loco:
A look into the future: if you'll run Waldorf, you can change the sources from testing to stable or simply from testing to wheezy - but remember that the apt-preferences should have exactly the same entry (so if you use "wheezy" in the sources.list, you need to use "wheezy" in apt-preferences, too)

snowpine · 2012-06-13 11:34:06

I started with #! 8.04 and fresh install of the new version is what I've seen work.

I like to keep a separate /home partition and change my username to "snowpineold" before installing the new version, so I get a new user account with the new settings of the new release and then can copy other files over at my leisure.

Last edited by snowpine (2012-06-13 11:34:27)

pvsage · 2012-06-13 11:44:49

Welcome back, Baconator! You weren't gone long, but you were missed. I'm sure that, just as was the case with Wheezy, many people's favorite nonfree packages will disappear from Waldorf during the freeze shakedown (glares at the Debian guy who cut Minitube from Squeeze tongue ). Probably be even more fundamental changes too...xorg is still a bubbling cauldron of confusion...

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in the opening post, but certainly *right now* is far too soon to expect anything in Waldorf to be set in stone; I was just "think[ing] about the future" when Wheezy does become Stable.

@elvaqueroloco: I'm pretty sure that, just as was the case with Statler, the Testing images of Waldorf reference Wheezy in /etc/apt/sources.list; therefore, it should automatically track the Testing-to-Stable transition.

@omns: Since you probably have more experience with Debian than everyone else "in the room" *combined*, I'm siding with elvaqueroloco and deferring to your knowledge.

@VastOne & pidsley: Great points; yes, the Statler-to-Waldorf layer on top of the Debian Stable-to-Stable transition does further complicate issues.

pidsley · 2012-06-13 12:46:52

More good discussion. I was planning to try an upgrade by modifying sources this morning, and I think I will also try using a separate home partition (I like snowpine's new user method).

For more discussion, here are the questions I'd like to be able to answer, and some proposals (just proposals!):

1. I am a new user, and I have not installed #! -- which version (of the three available) should I install?

A. Waldorf. While it is labeled as a "testing" release, it is already stable enough for general use. Because we know you are going to want to "upgrade" to this release eventually, we'd recommend just starting with it. If you have any problems during or after the install, please ask on the forum -- we'll be happy to help and you will be helping us make Waldorf even better.

2. I installed Statler (stable or backports) a few days ago and now I think I want Waldorf. Can you tell me how to upgrade?

A. Unless you have made a lot of configuration changes after you installed Statler, the easiest way to upgrade is to simply reinstall using Waldorf. If you have made many changes after installing, please see question 3.

3. I've been using Statler since the February release, and I have all my configuration files just the way I want them. Please tell me how to upgrade to Waldorf without losing all my hard work.

A. Please see (this not yet written guide) for instructions on how to use a separate home partition and creating a new user to install Waldorf and migrate your configuration files.

4. Can't I just upgrade by changing my sources.list?

A. While it is possible to upgrade most of your software using this method, there are other fundamental changes in Waldorf that would need to be made manually for a full upgrade. Re-installing with a separate home partition is really much easier.

Last edited by pidsley (2012-06-13 12:52:08)

rizzo · 2012-06-13 13:40:15

@pidsley you're essentially answering all those questions the same way and already have the answers you need.

'A fresh install rather than an upgrade would be the best way to install Waldorf.'

imo smile

pidsley · 2012-06-13 13:43:13

^ Yes, that's right -- I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page smile

(and especially about not really recommending Statler at this point...)

rizzo · 2012-06-13 13:44:41

Well there's no real same page or official recommendation. That comes later from corenominal smile

pidsley · 2012-06-13 13:46:28

I understand that, but I am trying to answer these questions now (people are having problems now) and I want to be sure my answers are OK.

VastOne · 2012-06-13 16:06:44

pidsley, Your answers are solid...

rizzo · 2012-06-13 19:05:56

@pidsley, when asked about these types of things I just give my personal opinion. Others will do the same if they agree.

Your reasoning and proposed responses seem okay to me but I'd express caution over recommending Waldorf over Statler. Some people prefer rock solid and it needs to be made clear that Waldorf is in development and despite being very stable already, will have bugs from time to time.

pvsage · 2012-06-13 19:08:59

...and some idiots might be tempted to throw out the *one kernel* that works with their wifi, then have to spend three hours building the kernel headers because they aren't available upstream...

...but not blaming anybody but myself for that one.

VastOne · 2012-06-13 19:09:47

^ Saw that one coming... wink Sorry about your woes

pidsley · 2012-06-13 19:09:55

omns wrote:

Your reasoning and proposed responses seem okay to me but I'd express caution over recommending Waldorf over Statler. Some people prefer rock solid and it needs to be made clear that Waldorf is in development and despite being very stable already, will have bugs from time to time.

Don't worry; I won't be recommending mass conversion to Waldorf. I'll defer to the mods and corenominal. wink

Last edited by pidsley (2012-06-13 19:16:18)

pvsage · 2012-06-13 20:14:35

@VastOne: As I said in that thread, it was just a waiting game; I guess three hours isn't too big a price to pay for such valuable experience. (Especially at what my employer pays per hour.) Besides...

VastOne · 2012-06-13 20:17:08

^ Tis true and nice segue .. cool

pvsage · 2012-06-13 20:20:33

^ You have no idea how many times I've quoted that title, especially to Megan. big_smile

pidsley · 2012-06-13 22:18:51

Well, I tried an upgrade this morning by starting with a clean Statler bpo install and modifying the sources.list. The dist-upgrade downloaded 753 MB of new stuff (that's right, larger than a Waldorf iso) and took more than two hours to complete (I have a slow DSL connection, but even after the download it took 30-45 minutes, with one -f episode). And I was left with what I can only call "Statdorf" or "Waldtler" -- a mixed bag of working and not working software; some themes were broken, wireless was broken, and who knows what else. The upgrade "worked" -- at least it didn't fail, but I can't really recommend it...

Last edited by pidsley (2012-06-14 00:41:22)

vicshrike · 2012-06-13 22:27:20

^I love the smell of a fresh install in the morning wink

pidsley · 2012-06-13 22:37:32

smells like... victory!

hagbard · 2012-09-21 08:02:40

I thinl, there is better way to make #! rolling-release distributive.

iamnutz · 2012-09-22 20:48:16

I always do a clean install but save certain rc's,conf's etc on a usb key for reference, so far loaded statler 32bit,
just went from waldorf 32bit 405img to 64bit 806img using usb install and havent had any non-configurable problems yet. I will say gnome-mplayer surprises me with video rendering superior to vlc, especially with me being obsessed with vintage music video like older pink floyd concert footage. Anyways, Debian is def the way to go and very capable if not already superior to the "buntu" anything! My biggest install problem is remembering how to erase the read only files on the usb to load the next image !! lol

elb0wf4ce · 2012-11-01 16:17:34

Surely, instead of being drastic and performing a fresh install, one could merely edit the sources.list and apt-preferences, dist-upgrade and then create a new user account. That way, any new config changes and defaults will be generated in the new user account. Once that is all sorted and things are backed up, delete the original account and recreate it again – if you want the username back + new configs and defaults.

Last edited by elb0wf4ce (2012-11-01 16:27:56)

pvsage · 2012-11-01 19:56:37

Not sure this would work. For one thing, there are enough differences between Statler and Waldorf for the contents of /etc/skel to cause borkage, and I'm pretty sure what you describe won't replace that. Probably a host of other "gotchas" as well.

elb0wf4ce · 2012-11-01 20:30:50

pvsage wrote:

Not sure this would work. For one thing, there are enough differences between Statler and Waldorf for the contents of /etc/skel to cause borkage, and I'm pretty sure what you describe won't replace that. Probably a host of other "gotchas" as well.

Wouldn't the contents of /etc/skel be overwritten by the newer versions with their new defaults? There's always alternatives to a fresh install, I find. It beats having to reinstall various different apps and hefty games.

pvsage · 2012-11-01 20:35:11

Pretty sure /etc/skel/ is copied from the live media during install, and not affected by anything in the repos...

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#26 2012-06-13 05:25:50

Re: Statler-to-Waldorf upgrade path?

#27 2012-06-13 11:34:06

Re: Statler-to-Waldorf upgrade path?

#28 2012-06-13 11:44:49

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#29 2012-06-13 12:46:52

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#34 2012-06-13 16:06:44

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#35 2012-06-13 19:05:56

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#36 2012-06-13 19:08:59

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#37 2012-06-13 19:09:47

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#38 2012-06-13 19:09:55

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#39 2012-06-13 20:14:35

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#40 2012-06-13 20:17:08

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#41 2012-06-13 20:20:33

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#42 2012-06-13 22:18:51

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#43 2012-06-13 22:27:20

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#44 2012-06-13 22:37:32

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#45 2012-09-21 08:02:40

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#46 2012-09-22 20:48:16

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#47 2012-11-01 16:17:34

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#48 2012-11-01 19:56:37

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#49 2012-11-01 20:30:50

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