suggesting new irc ops

Vuoristoneuvos · 2012-08-10 18:44:05

Digit wrote:

Vuoristoneuvos wrote:
discussing the candidates here is bike-shedding, since the problem lies elsewhere:
omns wrote:
What's really needed here is an experienced person who can admin the channel and choose new ops (or remove them) as the need arises.
This is indeed what we need, and what I have been trying to get at ever since omns gave his flags away. I'll state again, that the only person who can do anything about this is corenominal.
i disagree that it's bikeshedding, because ^.
corenominal doesnt go into the irc anymore (at least not that we know of), so this is a far better place to get his attention.
... who knows, maybe he'll come here and inform us he's forgotten his irc password. ;D

I can assure you, corenominal is well aware of the situation.

VastOne wrote:

I have been in and out of there quite a bit over the last week and can say it is disrupted quite frequently with awful discussions not relevant to CrunchBang at all or in line with any IRC rules.

Irc rules, that some one else than a member of the irc operator crew is editing.

VastOne wrote:

I suggest new and committed IRC OPS along with a set of complete CrunchBang IRC expectations that are up to date

I've gone over this already, but again: the problem is not the IRC OPS, but the fact that corenominal is reluctant to give out, or do this himself, necessary flags to nominate operators.

rhowaldt wrote:

i think a problem with the IRC, as compared to the forums, is that it has no dedicated off-topic section.

I disagree. IRC is not like a forum. Blank silence on a channel doesn't benefit anyone, if anything it raises the bar for a newcomer to pich in, or ask a question.

I have never seen a question going unnoticed by someone who could help because of an off-topic discussion.

Raising the quality of conversation and enforcing the rules is something we are currently (and have been for the last two years been) lacking, but that can only be fixed by getting someone with the necessary flags on channel. This summer has been exceptional in both message traffic and people who don't know how to behave. I have done my best to keep peace and all, but I'm just a one man and it goes without saying that I can't always be there and can't see everything.

Last edited by Vuoristoneuvos (2012-08-10 23:23:23)

VastOne · 2012-08-10 19:57:48

^ Thank you Vuoristoneuvos for the explanations and the excellent work you have done.

I agree with the statement of 'getting someone with the necessary flags on channel', this needs to be done. Make it so corenominal, please!!!!

Also, FYI the last quote you have in your post from from rhowaldt, I do not want to steal his thunder.

dizzie · 2012-08-10 20:39:39

One of the problems with the irc channel as it is now is that alot idle there, and those who are actually "there" spend most day there having fun. Then if someone joins to ask for help, and none really are there at that time, they leave again.

Other times a question gets asked when the rest of the channel are discussing something, and the question gets overheard, they leave again

And then there is the socalled "trolling" someone answer, and the rest questions the answer.

Sure we could use a some new people there who can actually help. As of now we are only a few "active". But does we need alot more ops, or do we need alot more people who have time, and are willing to help. Either or, or both.

Setting up a IRCbot like they fx have in #Ubuntu would be a great help, but who would be willing to stuff it with answers to the questions? sure i have the hardware, software, and bandwith for one. But i/we need a few good people to take the time to "feed it" with answers

Just my two cents smile

VastOne · 2012-08-10 21:19:17

^ More good suggestions..

I will be honest with you, I do not mind being there and helping all I can. But when the conversations drift off to obscenities or racist discussions, I bail and have trouble coming back because they go unchecked.

I will try to get there more and be a part of the solution and not the problem.

rizzo · 2012-08-10 21:52:52

dizziedk wrote:

One of the problems with the irc channel as it is now is that alot idle there, and those who are actually "there" spend most day there having fun. Then if someone joins to ask for help, and none really are there at that time, they leave again.

In my experience that tends to be the nature of the beast in most small, low traffic channels.

Vuoristoneuvos · 2012-08-10 23:24:22

VastOne wrote:

Also, FYI the last quote you have in your post from from rhowaldt, I do not want to steal his thunder.

Sorry about that, it was a copy/paste fail on my part smile

dizzie · 2012-08-10 23:33:48

omns wrote:

In my experience that tends to be the nature of the beast in most small, low traffic channels.

Maybe so, but new and confused people seeking help, see a bunch of people totally ignoring their request.

Vuoristoneuvos · 2012-08-10 23:36:08

dizziedk wrote:

One of the problems with the irc channel as it is now is that alot idle there, and those who are actually "there" spend most day there having fun. Then if someone joins to ask for help, and none really are there at that time, they leave again.
Other times a question gets asked when the rest of the channel are discussing something, and the question gets overheard, they leave again

I feel you. The problem in here lies partly on we not having enough knowledgeable contributors, and partly on the people asking the questions. That's right, them too. Most of the people that don't get any attention to their questions join, ask, and leave within the next five minutes. That's generally how the IRC works: it can be instantaneous when people are in there, discussing something, but what these people don't get is that if the traffic is low, generally no one sits there staring at a blank page, waiting for someone to say something.

I acknowledge these people are new to this form of communicating, and there's nothing wrong with that, but with a little patience they could get the help they need. Like someone here previously said we're discussing on two different animals. On a positive notion on this I think most of them then come to here - on these forums - with their issues where you all can step in.

Vuoristoneuvos · 2012-08-10 23:37:15

dizziedk wrote:

omns wrote:
In my experience that tends to be the nature of the beast in most small, low traffic channels.
Maybe so, but new and confused people seeking help, see a bunch of people totally ignoring their request.

Ignoring because they cannot help, I believe wink

rhowaldt · 2012-08-10 23:53:29

Vuoristoneuvos wrote:

rhowaldt wrote:
i think a problem with the IRC, as compared to the forums, is that it has no dedicated off-topic section.
I disagree. IRC is not like a forum. Blank silence on a channel doesn't benefit anyone, if anything it raises the bar for a newcomer to pich in, or ask a question.
I have never seen a question going unnoticed by someone who could help because of an off-topic discussion.

you're absolutely right, and i fully agree. look, here, from that same paragraph you quoted from:

rhowaldt wrote:

i know that as soon as someone comes by in the IRC and asks a Linux-related question, he gets helped out quite fast.

smile

Vuoristoneuvos · 2012-08-11 00:20:19

rhowaldt wrote:

you're absolutely right, and i fully agree. look, here, from that same paragraph you quoted from:
rhowaldt wrote:
i know that as soon as someone comes by in the IRC and asks a Linux-related question, he gets helped out quite fast.

Uh, oh. It seems I have serious issues with my reading. I'm sorry for the noise, and sorry for not reading you properly through, rhowaldt.

rhowaldt · 2012-08-11 00:42:59

^ no problem Vuoristoneuvos. sometimes i write too blurry, or something. re-reading my piece there i could imagine you missing it.

brontosaurusrex · 2012-08-12 16:36:18

just my view:
a. off-topic chat is ok (until the channel is less than 100 people at least), but make a rule to stop it when actual #! question is asked (open an off-topic channel, when people > 400 perhaps)
b. there is a possibility to get crunchbang cloak on freenode, and that cloak can be given to trusted #! people (not just ops), topic may reflect that to help noobies. p.s. actually you may have an op without the cloak.
c. technically: its one of the most useful channels i saw, especially since its not limited to #! discussion (there is some magic in unrelated projects that actually gives my unrelated projects a wind).

Last edited by brontosaurusrex (2012-08-12 16:47:47)

chillicampari · 2012-08-13 06:32:03

No interest in IRC anymore but here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

IRC by it's nature is prone to drama, racism, sexism, spam floods et al. However- we do have a very strong reputation of being a good place so I'd suggest:

Anyone who's a moderator on the forum should get auto-op'd after verification its the same person (so no nick-jacking). If they don't know the basics (at the very least least kickban and channel mute) they can learn quick. And hopefully they will monitor the channel to find out who is useful- then in turn, *they* can promote people to operator status. They will also be responsible for the people they promote so it's gonna have to be someone they really trust. So at first it's extra work before the passoff but it sounds like it might be helpful in this case.

So you don't need the exact same mods between the forum and and the channel, but you always have someone who has a handle on things at any given time (or timezone) or can at least direct to the right place or, if needed, mute the entire channel if it's gone too far south to sort things out later.

Also, a floodbot would be handy if flooding/spam is a problem.

Last edited by chillicampari (2012-08-13 13:53:56)

Digit · 2012-09-07 18:10:38

just been reviewing this new irc ops thread, and the general situation.
very glad to see we have a new admin n will once again start to see a restoration of this channel as a friendly place to chat about crunchbang, foss, tech, etc n tech support. long live #crunchbang (and #crunchbang-offtopic)

was surprised to see harski de-op'd. idk if there's a story that goes with that. resigned?

cept for the bit about using the numbers of users (rather than an awareness of content) as a guide to suitability of creation of a -offtopic channel or whatever, i agree with brontosaurosrex's suggestion about the general rule of thumb for the forum. in it being ok for some flexibility of on/off-topicness, but priority being given to chat about crunchbang and highest priority given to tech support...

...and i hope the new admin & ops will quickly find comfort and balance in their aproach, not too lax, not too strict/severe, so to help cultivate the goodness. smile

fyi, if anyone wants to see the list of ops, to know who to contact if the poo hits the fan, the command in irc is:

/msg ChanServ access list #crunchbang

chanserv will then message you with a list, and you can find a recently active op to inform of any disruptive errant behaviour for them to review and decide what to do about.

much thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and resolution. smile

VastOne · 2012-09-08 00:00:08

^ Well said Digit and thank you for posting this information for many reasons.

dizzie · 2012-09-08 00:43:13

^Wellsaid Digit smile

Digit · 2012-09-08 02:21:38

thnx. smile

... cept i said "general rule of thumb for the forum" when i meant channel. i shant bother with an edit. no one noticed. ;D

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#26 2012-08-10 18:44:05

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#27 2012-08-10 19:57:48

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#28 2012-08-10 20:39:39

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#29 2012-08-10 21:19:17

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#30 2012-08-10 21:52:52

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#31 2012-08-10 23:24:22

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#32 2012-08-10 23:33:48

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#33 2012-08-10 23:36:08

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#34 2012-08-10 23:37:15

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#35 2012-08-10 23:53:29

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#36 2012-08-11 00:20:19

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#37 2012-08-11 00:42:59

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#38 2012-08-12 16:36:18

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#39 2012-08-13 06:32:03

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#40 2012-09-07 18:10:38

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#41 2012-09-08 00:00:08

Re: suggesting new irc ops

#42 2012-09-08 00:43:13

Re: suggesting new irc ops

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Re: suggesting new irc ops

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