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#26 2012-06-06 07:41:54

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

@machinebacon: Ran smxi and answered questions until I could skip to the graphics section. It told me that I don't have an xorg.conf file and then it terminated with error:

ERROR: (222) The Xorg driver  you are trying to install is not available for your version of debian: stable

So now I have to figure out what that means smile

sgfxi error log here.

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 07:43:47)


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#27 2012-06-06 07:45:10

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

@h8uthemost: Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to get to that as well smile


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#28 2012-06-06 08:10:01

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,636
Website

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

@Wolfy: Briefly, the smxi error message translates to "Go Waldorf" big_smile

I'd say: run it from a stick, in live mode, with the default browser, and see if it still eats up your CPU smile

By the way, is your PC capable of running a 64-bit OS? Just asking smile

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#29 2012-06-06 08:31:13

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

^ It's an Intel Core Duo which is 32-bit AFAIK.

Go Waldorf? Hehehehe. So nothing in the backports that would solve this it seems. I'm going to test from Waldorf Live USB. I can't continue burning out a CPU just to surf the interwebz.

Seems counter to the whole "Debian Stable" thing though. I though Stable was so rock-solid and tested and debugged that you would only consider moving away from it if you had newer hardware. This laptop is from 2008. I'm a bit disappointed I must say.

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 08:33:10)


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#30 2012-06-06 08:54:05

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Using Waldorf off Live USB. Installed Iceweasel from repos. Version 10.0.4. Have the same few tabs open. CPU load is nothing. It stays well below 0.1 and only moves to around 0.25 from time to time when I load a new page. Completely different to Statler. Of course, this is a Live environment, so I should test in Statler without any add-ons to confirm.


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#31 2012-06-06 08:59:41

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Still in Waldorf Live.

Installed Iceweasel addons (firemacs, firebug, tab mix plus and noscript; don't use readabilty any more) and restarted Iceweasel. Even after all that, 1 minute load is 0.05. Same tabs opened up after restart. Reloaded tabs. Load went to 0.27 for a bit and then came back down to < 0.1. Eventually 1 minute load drops to 0.00, even when switching tabs, reading mail, etc. This is how it should be.

I wonder why Waldorf is so much lighter than Statler?

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 09:09:10)


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#32 2012-06-06 15:36:22

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Apologies to Icewasel/Firefox/Mozilla. This high CPU issue is not related to the browser. I closed Iceweasel and left the laptop for a few minutes. Load averages were all above 1, with Xorg chewing the CPU. This was with compositing off (I usually use xcompmgr). So the problem is with Xorg.

The laptop is now using an xorg.conf file which the sgfxi script created. However, previous to this, I did not have an xorg.conf file and the CPU usage was still high.

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 15:38:02)


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#33 2012-06-06 15:46:55

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Things I've tried to determine what is causing Xorg to generate >1 load. I've disabled xcompmgr and conky. No effect. This thread was related to using outlines in conky, which I don't use anyway. Other searches here lead to very old threads. Any other ideas? CPU load averages all about 1.4 now. Three tabs open in Iceweasel, two tabs is Terminator, one connected to remote machine, one running top. No way that should be load averaging > 1.4 on a Core Duo 2GHz CPU.


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#34 2012-06-06 15:54:07

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

I followed instructions here to get the backported X stuff, but I already have all of it.

The instructions there specify to download from backports, which I've never/not done before, so I don't know how I have the latest stuff from backports. Is that maybe the problem? Should I not use backports? Usage now 1.68, 1.23 and 1.20 from nothing more than browsing and posting here.

Continued here.

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 16:44:53)


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#35 2012-06-06 17:27:08

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

SabreWolfy wrote:

Apologies to Icewasel/Firefox/Mozilla. This high CPU issue is not related to the browser. I closed Iceweasel and left the laptop for a few minutes. Load averages were all above 1, with Xorg chewing the CPU. This was with compositing off (I usually use xcompmgr). So the problem is with Xorg.

told ya

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#36 2012-06-06 17:49:36

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,505

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

As a kinda related post:

For whatever reason decided to upgrade x11-common and x11-utils to latest in testing ( I don't even have xorg installed here). Was seeing this same annoying FF/IW behavior, w these browsers for some reason using 9-12% cpu when watching in top. Was driving me crazy for a couple mins. Went ahead and deleted Iceweasels and Firefox's mozilla profiles and created new ones for them. So far looks like it did the trick, no more strange excessive use of CPU going on for me ... YET anyway. Things seem back to normal cpu ranges here.

Which is great, would've drove me nutz, if had to switch to chrome or opera, cuz of some weirdness with FF/IW !!! That's the kind of situation that can flat out ruin any long time mozilla fan's day !!! So might try backing up your bookmarks and setting up a new mozilla profile for all your favorite mozilla browsers. Fixed me up it seems.


cbiz. smile


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#37 2012-06-06 17:55:42

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,636
Website

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

@Wolfy: just found this, a thread a year ago (those days FF7/IW7 <-> xorg made the same troubles) http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/post/152454/#p152454

@cbiz" Hello Seabiscuit! Long time no see, I have been missing you(r babbles) tongue

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#38 2012-06-06 18:03:51

rhowaldt
#!*$%:)
Registered: 2011-03-09
Posts: 4,396

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

hey Cbiz! you're back! i've been crying big fat tears over your absence! big_smile

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#39 2012-06-06 18:13:07

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,505

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

^ lol Machine and Rhow ... been trying to focus on a buncha stuff fella's.

Update: FF is still showing some weird occasional high cpu spikes, so is the default gui on this OS, though much better than it was here. Overall ANNOYING .. sighs. Having to retweak everything, install plugins, pw's blahblahblah AND still isn't quite right. Guess time to dig into some other poss culprits, try to figure out what's going on. Much better doesn't = what it should be dash nabbit ! Arghhhh ...


cb. smile

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2012-06-06 18:13:42)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#40 2012-06-06 18:59:25

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Just to confirm that I see high CPU usage when the machine is idling, and even when Iceweasel is closed. I don't think this is (only) related to the browser.


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#41 2012-06-06 19:00:25

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

zalew wrote:

told ya

So what's the solution? I'm using the drivers provided by Stable/Squeeze/Statler. Are you saying those are no good? In a stable release? Or is it related to the backports?


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#42 2012-06-06 19:05:10

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,636
Website

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Wolfy, maybe you can get the original Statler release from 2011 February? Have you tried that already?

Can you also post the

lspci -nn

of your machine, so we can have a look if there's some piece of input/output hardware that drives X crazy smile

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#43 2012-06-06 19:14:41

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

^ Thanks. I have the Waldorf images, so I may just install those instead. This machine is working fine, but having an idling machine with a load average of between 1 and 2 is just not something I can live with smile

$ lspci -nn
00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/PM/GMS, 943/940GML and 945GT Express Memory Controller Hub [8086:27a0] (rev 03)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:27a2] (rev 03)
00:02.1 Display controller [0380]: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:27a6] (rev 03)
00:1b.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family High Definition Audio Controller [8086:27d8] (rev 02)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family PCI Express Port 1 [8086:27d0] (rev 02)
00:1c.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family PCI Express Port 2 [8086:27d2] (rev 02)
00:1c.2 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family PCI Express Port 3 [8086:27d4] (rev 02)
00:1d.0 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #1 [8086:27c8] (rev 02)
00:1d.1 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #2 [8086:27c9] (rev 02)
00:1d.2 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #3 [8086:27ca] (rev 02)
00:1d.3 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #4 [8086:27cb] (rev 02)
00:1d.7 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB2 EHCI Controller [8086:27cc] (rev 02)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge [8086:2448] (rev e2)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge [0601]: Intel Corporation 82801GBM (ICH7-M) LPC Interface Bridge [8086:27b9] (rev 02)
00:1f.1 IDE interface [0101]: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) IDE Controller [8086:27df] (rev 02)
00:1f.2 SATA controller [0106]: Intel Corporation 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7 Family) SATA AHCI Controller [8086:27c5] (rev 02)
00:1f.3 SMBus [0c05]: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family SMBus Controller [8086:27da] (rev 02)
02:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express [14e4:1693] (rev 02)
03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4311 802.11b/g WLAN [14e4:4311] (rev 01)
0a:06.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394) [0c00]: O2 Micro, Inc. Firewire (IEEE 1394) [1217:00f7] (rev 02)
0a:06.2 SD Host controller [0805]: O2 Micro, Inc. Integrated MMC/SD Controller [1217:7120] (rev 02)
0a:06.3 Mass storage controller [0180]: O2 Micro, Inc. Integrated MS/xD Controller [1217:7130] (rev 01)

It's weird to notice that load average is often well above 1, but usage of Iceweasel or xorg is often just around a few % in top. It's not like xorg is running at 5 or 10 or 20% all the time.

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 19:16:33)


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#44 2012-06-06 19:24:30

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

The line apart from Iceweasel using CPU time most is:

/usr/bin/X :0 -audit 0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -nolisten tcp vt7

Have done some searching around high load average but low usage to try to find the cause.

No processes in "uninterruptive sleep" state (D) in "ps aux". No processes that I can see taking up too much I/O wait time. Results from vmstat look normal.

This:

ps -eo pid,user,state,cmd | awk '$3 ~ /D/ { print $0 }'

Returned

 1025 root     D [jbd2/dm-0-8]

dm? dm-crypt? My /home is encrypted. Surely encryption cannot be creating all this overhead? But maybe?

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 19:36:46)


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#45 2012-06-06 19:37:10

machinebacon
#! unstable
From: China
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 6,636
Website

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

I 'd say you should try different kernels and compare their idle load average after 10 minutes for example. Note that even minor differences in the kernel version can make a diference (see Ubuntu's problem with 3.2.0.22 opposed to 3.2.0.21)

Edit:
Reference (Ubuntu): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour … bug/985661

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-06-06 19:42:37)

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#46 2012-06-06 20:50:24

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

^ I think you speak the truth here. Thanks for the link smile

I rebooted and selected kernel 2.6.39-bpo.2-486 instead of the 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 which it was using. Load average is much better now! Less than 0.10 now, whereas before it would be 1+. It must be something in the kernel. Waldorf Live seemed OK, but I don't really have time or energy to reinstall now, even though Waldorf is also using a newer kernel, but it will be fixed by then or soon.

Is there a way to remove NEWER kernels and prevent the kernel from upgrading in future? Is this apt-pinning?

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-06-06 20:52:52)


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#47 2012-06-06 21:33:53

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,505

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Thanks 2 Da Machine 2, might take that route as well. Though installing an earlier kernel won't maketh cbiz happy. tongue

Actually sorted it out fairly well here. With ALOT of apt-cache show package, apt-cache policy seeing what's installed, checking dependencies and upgrading likely ones to testing. Had to do x11-common, x11-utils, a bunch of xserver and iceweasel itself. Really helped to smooth things out for the cpu on this old thing. Is still choppy compared to what it used to be but MUCH better. Cpu spikes still going on but it's brief and calms down fairly quickly. Well within reasonable limits, for the most part staying in the normal cpu range that I'm used to. Once again ... ANNOYING, oh well.

Guess would be nice if Debian had an easier way to roll stuff back. Though apparently isn't so ... so we get to deal with it. tongue It'll be alright though. Not excited about installing an earlier kernel version either way. Could be interesting messing with though, just for the sake of trying some diff kernels too. Could also try going a step further and installing some packages from unstable repo's ? Not real excited about that idea either. Anyone tried that approach and willing to share the outcome of it ? Hoping(well ... guessing) Debian will get around to sorting this out soon enough. Cpu seas are a bit stormier than usual atm, not all that bad though, shrugs. Guess they don't call it "testing" for nuttin. wink

End babble: cb. smile

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2012-06-06 21:38:36)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#48 2012-06-06 21:50:37

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,505

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

Oops more babble forthcoming.

Yeppers SW, synaptic or apt-get, look for kernel image and header, mark for complete removal in synaptic. Might not wanna jump the gun though. Give da mighty Debian uber geekdom time to work on it. As long as you're booting into x earlier kernel default. Having the newer one on standby won't hurt anything. Just an opinion though. The annoying process am babbling about in the above post, pretty much sorted it for me.

Are sporadic cpu spikes, but short lasting ones and then goes right into the normal cpu range in top. Am more than satisfied with cpu activity here. Though was a real pita going through stuff, upgrading dependencies and etc. Sighs ... oh well.


cb smile

On a semi-related sidenote ...

DIE ADOBE FLASHPLAYER !!! DIE ! DIEEEEEEEEE ! And plugin-container !!! DIEEEEEEEEE ! Though have always despised those things. lol Also still around the same cpu usage now with them, but they've always used entirely too many sys resources. DIE ! Dieeeeeeee ! Had to get that offa my chest. tongue

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2012-06-06 22:11:31)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#49 2012-06-06 22:28:45

zalew
#! Junkie
From: Warsaw, .PL
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 374

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

SabreWolfy wrote:
zalew wrote:

told ya

So what's the solution? I'm using the drivers provided by Stable/Squeeze/Statler. Are you saying those are no good? In a stable release? Or is it related to the backports?

just sayin' that firefox cpu effect is a symptom, not a cause - which you somehow proved later by having problems with ff not running.

can't help you, I only had this with nvidia, had to find a proper driver. and even later I ran into xorg issues after package update, so now I keep both the driver and xorg on hold for a long time.

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#50 2012-06-07 07:24:50

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: High load average with 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-486 kernel

@CBizgreat!: Yeah, I think I'll leave the newer kernels in place and just wait. When a new kernel comes along, I'll test it out. It has been patched upstream as far as I can tell from the link that machinebacon posted earlier.


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