Doing Something about the Wiki

johnraff · 2012-05-23 15:25:20

machinebacon wrote:

^ Yes, I would prefer copying useful material into a single page about a certain topic or area.

Definitely agreed. My question was, though, about whether it was a good idea to leave the original pages behind, possibly segregated off under "Z", or just delete them, since the content was now safe on the Big Page.

We could of course add an additional tag at the beginning of the subject line, for example NETWORKING: , VIDEO:, DESKTOP:, LOCALES:, INSTALLATION: - this would automatically put the existing pages into categories, much like your suggestion with the Z in front.

Yes smile Tweaking the titles like this would be quite flexible, easilly altered and quicker to do than changing the actual directory structure.

It's possible to create metapages with hyperlinks to wiki pages, so to have a kind of overview about a certain topic and nothing else.

Sounds good, if those "overview" pages had a little guidance as to which would be the right wiki page to visit for a particular user. I'm thinking for example of getting video drivers installed - so many variables, I had a really hard time choosing the best forum thread to follow for my Nvidia card. It worked out OK in the end, but a new user might appreciate some yes/no questions followed by a "go here" link?

machinebacon · 2012-05-23 16:01:40

^ We should indeed mark the 'old' pages with a - for example - ZIPPED tag (starts with Z and can be interpreted as zip-locked), and leave them - maybe Philip wants to use them for something.

About adding tags to the beginning, which main categories should we have? To have something to work with now, I suggest:

[APPLICATIONS] - generally about the Applications section coming with a standard #! installation, not related to openbox/tint2/conky
[AUDIO] - everything related to ALSA, pulseaudio, codecs
[DESKTOP] - the Holy Trinity openbox, tint2, conky
[HOWTO] - existing, dedicated HOWTO pages. Can be linked in main articles.
[INSTALLATION] - hard drive/usb installation guides
[LOCALES] - localization, language support
[LAPTOP] - LCD brightness, touchpad, hotkeys, with links to howto's for laptop models
[NETWORKING] - wired and wireless, installation of the common wireless modules, vpn/ssh/samba/...
[PACKAGES] - package management, down/upgrading/holding/pinning, apt/dpkg
[VIDEO] - installation of the free and proprietary drivers for ATI/nVdia/Intel , sgfxi guide, xorg
[VARIOUS] - as the title suggests, this and that which doesn't clearly fit a category, e.g. virtualization, keyboard layouts, bluetooth, power management, etc.

Of course this is not the last word, just an idea.

If this would be on the start page - an explanation which fields are covered in which area - the reader would quite easily find what he needs: we take your video driver as an example. You'd click on [VIDEO]. This would bring you to a page in which, eg., the installation of the three most important vendor's drivers is described first, with alternative ways like sgfxi/smxi, followed by other guides which are found in several howto's.

What do you think? smile

Of course we would have to use 'the sane mind' to put the most helpful, or most logical guide as first on that 'topic page'.

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-05-24 06:34:32)

johnraff · 2012-05-23 16:58:01

That all sounds extremely sensible. smile

I was thinking the Z section might have a couple of sub-categories, like Z-outdated, Z-duplicate, Z-archive... but maybe just ZIPPED would be enough for everything. Titles can be changed very easily so it's not too important.

Before going on to the classification, let's finish clearing out the obsolete stuff. I'll take my turn at going through the pages, and we'll have to see if there are any question marks that need someone's more expert opinion. After thet there are the languages other than English... or should they be left till later?

btw, do you know where we can get a Sane Mind? vYTlzeQ

Last edited by johnraff (2012-05-23 17:00:30)

machinebacon · 2012-05-23 17:47:44

big_smile

I was thinking the Z section might have a couple of sub-categories, like Z-outdated, Z-duplicate, Z-archive... but maybe just ZIPPED would be enough for everything. Titles can be changed very easily so it's not too important.

There are some which are [OBSOLETE] or [OBSOLETE?] - the latter I would also ZIP. They are partly from ubuntu times (so totally unrelated to recent releases), or talk about ways how to install or replace software that is not included in later #! releases (and where even the package names don't fit anymore). Methods of package management could be explained in a future [PACKAGES] page more generally, with some examples.

Before going on to the classification, let's finish clearing out the obsolete stuff.

Yes. Let's easily ZIP the things we cannot really use for the main categories first - so the outdated ones. They are tagged anyway, so it is more or less a dull job.

I'll take my turn at going through the pages, and we'll have to see if there are any question marks that need someone's more expert opinion.

Sounds totally okay to me. Last time I have tagged starting from the top of the list to the letter P or so, and some randomly in the last part. This time I'll start from the bottom of the list moving upwards. You could start from the top to 'control' what rhowaldt and I have done, and remove the [?]s in the tags, if you don't mind. We would eventually "meet in the middle", and at least 2 people have checked all entries. All English and German entries are checked once or twice already, so we'd be the ones who decide about the fate of a page by removing the question mark and setting the right tag if necessary big_smile Like this we save time, energy and nerves. And we have decided 'democratically' which entries are useless for the future wiki.

If we encounter clearly labelled [OBSOLETE] we put a [ZIPPED] tag in front without further discussion. We can keep the [OBSOLETE] label at the end for an easier clean-up some day in the future.

If there's something not clear or needs expert opinion, we simply post a link to the unresolved wikipage here and make a quick and dirty discussion/decision.

After that there are the languages other than English... or should they be left till later?

I hope we can get some Italians and Spanish speaking people (COUGH COUGH @ivanovnegro!!) to at least scan the entries. As for now, we simply ignore them (entries, of course). I have finished the German entries and some exotic languages, they were all right.

rhowaldt · 2012-05-23 18:22:25

i am just chiming in here to support the cause. i have looked through many of the wiki-pages, but i am aware of the level of my own expertise, and have to leave lots of them unmarked simply because i have no idea whether it is correct or not. so i'm contributing in my own way. also have some other stuff going, but i might take a look at it with this new system later...

wuxmedia · 2012-05-23 20:55:53

i should be able to help with any french...
might be a bit rustique.

machinebacon · 2012-05-23 20:57:51

^ Go for it. I think there's not much to proof-read (as they have their own forums). Click on the Wiki link and make yourself an account there smile If anything is unclear, drop a line here.

ivanovnegro · 2012-05-23 22:13:41

machinebacon wrote:

All righty, I finished the German entries and all "editable" English entries from A to G. Now comes the big "HOWTO" block. Let's see if i can recruit BlackIvan for the COMO entries in Spanish (I have checked some of them, the content is partly directly translated from the English entries).
Ivaaaaaaaaaaaan!

Ok, I will have a looky. But one question comes to my mind not only because of lazyness big_smile , do we really need so many languages? I mean, first I have to see what you guys have done in the meantime, but I know I found the Wiki a mess with all the languages randomly popping up into your face.

ivanovnegro · 2012-05-24 00:03:29

What a mess is the Spanish text, edited most parts to refer to Debian instead of Ubuntu but still needs fine tuning because of this Latino variant used there. big_smile

Last edited by ivanovnegro (2012-05-24 00:04:58)

johnraff · 2012-05-24 04:38:52

^hmm... an English-only policy (like the forums) would make things simpler. I wonder how many people use the other-language pages? Or just have a very short list of approved languages?

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 04:48:41

Not many, I guess. How about tagging the pages with the language tag at front, like [WIKI-FR] or [WIKI-DE] and not categorizing them later. Then they would be arranged, still in order before the [ZIPPED] and not jump into the people's face.

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-05-24 04:49:12)

johnraff · 2012-05-24 04:52:44

^Sounds good.
(Seems we can do just about anything by editing page titles. cool )

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 04:55:28

Organization is always more 'work' than the actual work - at least it takes longer time and sounds damned important big_smile

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 05:03:04

Quoting Columbo:

"One more thing..."

When we add the category tags (like now [WIKI-DE] or so) we can remove the tag at the end, except those which will be the [ZIPPED] ones (as they probably need rewrite or are obsolete and this should be clearly visible).

Disagree anyone?

Edit:

- a file is written in French, but needs editing, it can be marked [ZIPPED-FR] blahblah [NEEDS EDITING] - when in the future somebody edits the article, he or she simply puts it into [WIKI-FR]
- a file is written in French, but is obsolete, it can be marked with [ZIPPED-FR] blahblah [OBSOLETE] - t is labelled as outdated and can be rewritten or left as it is.
- a file is written in French, everything is [OK] or [OK?], it can be marked [WIKI-FR] blahblah without further tags. I think the [OK?] is quite acceptable in most cases to be an [OK] article, as at least one person has proof-read and edited it.

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-05-24 05:11:27)

johnraff · 2012-05-24 05:10:21

OK something came up on the very first page I looked at:
http://crunchbanglinux.org/wiki/homeserver

mb put a question mark to the [OK] because there was no content so far, just headings. Agreed, a page with no content is not all that useful to a new visitor, but, are we going to check every page for mistakes in the content? I think that would be too much work, and anyway the point of a wiki is that the whole community does that collectively.

My suggestion here would be that we restrict our checking right now to:
1) whether the page is obsolete or not, especially in the context of the Ubuntu>Debian shift
2) if obsolete, whether it can be fixed, or should be archived
3) whether the content should be copied to another page to reduce fragmentation

Opinions?

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 05:13:16

i have edited my previous post, it actually complies with your 1) and 2)

Copying the content can be achieved easier if we have the pages bundled in the same category (with the leading tags). So we should keep this as last these steps, IMO.

Edit: Yes, I have checked the articles for mistakes and question-marked them with a [OK?] if needed.

The example you posted about homeservers is a case for keeping the article, putting it into [NETWORKING] and changing it to [NEEDS EDITING]. My [OK?] was put there because I found the idea to be excellent and wanted to hear opinions. smile So you did it right, john smile

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-05-24 05:15:36)

johnraff · 2012-05-24 05:20:00

OK next issue: tagging inside [] will put the page title at the top, just after #!
So to get other languages and archived pages at the bottom of the list the titles need to be tagged at the front without brackets, ie
WIKI-DE Änder...
Z-archive something...

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 05:23:26

Okay, accepted - you're totally right, haven't thought of this.

johnraff · 2012-05-24 05:28:52

Next up - what to do about the [NEEDS EDITING] pages? If we zap them down to the bottom with a ZIPPED tag, they might get forgotten?

Again, one person's opinion, but how about a separate category of Z-edit, so someone can come back and do something with them, but meanwhile the users won't be led astray?

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 05:31:43

Okay, Z-EDIT is good, or Z-EDIT-DE / Z-EDIT-FR ...

-

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-05-24 05:48:09)

johnraff · 2012-05-24 05:49:13

Finished A but now have to work...

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 05:54:24

It's okay, I continue. I'll put all "ubuntu"-stuff in z-obsolete. Let's keep the wiki mostly for the Debian releases.

Edit: Okay, saw your edit on the wiki. No harm done big_smile

Edit2: All righty, enough for today. I have already started to categorize OK entries (ABOUT/APPLICATIONS/DESKTOP/HOWTO/INSTALLATION/LAPTOP/LOCALES/NETWORKING/SCREENSHOTS/VARIOUS/VIDEO - double tags are possible, depending on importance - for example HOWTO LOCALES for the East Asian IMs). VARIOUS is for everything that is not explicitly declared as HOWTO in the original entry. And I pushed all foreign langauge sites into their WIKI-xx sections. Looks definitely cleaner now.

Edit3: Finished all entries. We can now move on and build metapages, if you don't mind.

Last edited by machinebacon (2012-05-24 10:45:20)

johnraff · 2012-05-24 17:11:10

^Wow, you've been busy! Yes, that looks much nicer. smile
I had been wondering when all the [OK] tags would get taken off the good pages - I guess the fact that you've removed nearly all of them means that all the pages in the wiki have now been checked?

Those old "applications list" pages - had a rethink: Ubuntu no longer support the systems 8.10.02 or 9.04.01 were built on, so that information is irrelevant to current #! users. Maybe those two pages should go with the "release notes" for those issues? And maybe all of that should go in Z-archive as a place for data that is valid, but probably useless?

I'm wondering if we need another Z category "redundant" for data that, while correct, is already in another place, either copied into a bigger page or because there's a better page on the same subject? (eg this autostart page)

So that would give us:
Z-edit as a temporary place for pages that need some work
Z-archive for pages that are correct, but of no particular use, except that someone in the future might want a look: eg the release notes and application lists of obsolete #! releases.
Z-redundant for pages whose content, while correct, is already available elsewhere.
Z-obsolete for pages whose content is no longer correct

Does that make sense?

johnraff · 2012-05-24 17:15:13

I'm wondering, does the HOWTO section have any particular meaning in a wiki? Couldn't all those pages be put under their respective categories instead?

machinebacon · 2012-05-24 17:52:29

Hey John,

yes, I have checked those which were labelled [OK] and [OK?], and edited them if needed.

What you suggest makes sense, because we should remember: what do 100 or 1000 users actually search for on the Wiki?

I would like to suggest following structure as next 'big step'

1 - Having a main page that links to the areas (like Audio, Desktop, etc) rather than to links.

2 - Every area would have a meta page in which links to related OK pages are collected. These meta pages (Audio, Desktop, etc) are yet to be written. They can also already contain parts of information from "Z-obsolete/Z-redundant" if needed, by copy-pasting content or clever linking.

3 - Z-edit is, as you wrote, a temporary place. Will make most of the work.

4 - Z-redundant can be used as pool from which we copy pieces of information or link to it, in meta pages or topic pages. Their importance is low, as there are not many pages that would fit the category. Basically it is the autostart page and the three SCIM/Ibus pages, these I remember. Of course this category can be established.

5 - The stuff which is now labelled "Z-obsolete" would anyway not fit in the other Z-categories, because a rewrite of these pages would require more work than editing small portions (like links or package names). Pieces of information can be copypasted to the meta/topic pages. Existing articles can stay in Z-obsolete until somebody sits down and decides about their fate. If a rewrite/edit of a page is good enough, the "Z-obsolete" tag can be removed and the article slips into a fitting category (if in doubt: Various)

I hope it is a bit clear big_smile

We probably need to make the decisions on the living object smile Today I have spent the whole afternoon with the wiki and probably need a bit of fresh air big_smile As for categorizing, just go ahead if you think something is rubbish or needs improvement.

Generally, I always agree to what you suggest, so don't be shy smile

Have a good night!

Edit: Yes, the HOWTO pages are partly categorized (HOWTO DESKTOP, for example). I have not tagged them, this was their original title and I just changed the "HowTo" and "How to" to HOWTO, to have a uniform look. I think it is a good idea to link them to categories (HOWTO <CATEGORY>) - I will do this as next. Agree?

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Re: Doing Something about the Wiki

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Re: Doing Something about the Wiki

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