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#151 2012-05-13 12:03:38

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,501

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Thanks much for this how to and to all the kewl #!'ers who contributed useful stuff to the topic. Can once again say with total conviction ...


"Use Debian ... or die !" tongue


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#152 2012-05-19 11:16:52

VDP76
#! Bean Roaster
Registered: 2012-04-12
Posts: 826

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

hi,
thanks to the great first post by hardran3 I have managed to set my system to install from testing repos.. smile
I am using the following priorities

statler -- > 1001
squeeze --> 600
squeeze-backports --> 200
testing --> 100

and I am trying to install gstreamer0.10-gconf, but I get this error:

mattia@CB-Mattia:~$ sudo apt-get -t testing install gstreamer0.10-gconf
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 libc6-dev : Breaks: gcc-4.4 (< 4.4.6-4) but 4.4.5-8 is to be installed
E: Broken packages

can someone show me the way?? wink

edit: testing repos...

Last edited by VDP76 (2012-05-20 10:39:35)


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#153 2012-05-19 15:29:35

ivanovnegro
Ivan #000000
From: unstable madness
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 5,423

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

^ But do you have Experimental in your sources list?

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#154 2012-05-19 15:31:43

ivanovnegro
Ivan #000000
From: unstable madness
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 5,423

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

@Bayreuthian: So why do you want to install it from Experimental if it is in Wheezy?

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#155 2012-05-19 16:40:39

VDP76
#! Bean Roaster
Registered: 2012-04-12
Posts: 826

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

ivanovnegro wrote:

@Bayreuthian: So why do you want to install it from Experimental if it is in Wheezy?

eheh, good point...I just mixed up the terms..when I wrote "Experimental" it was supposed to be written "Testing"... roll sorry, I'll correct right now...

anyway, this are the sourced I have added:

## DEBIAN TESTING
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ testing main
## TESTING SECURITY
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main

I have mixed up the terms also in the terminal commands, now the output in my first post is really using testing repos, but still gives an error...
@ivanovnegro: now I really got what you meant... wink

Last edited by VDP76 (2012-05-20 10:47:03)


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#156 2012-05-19 17:16:33

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: #! Fringe Division
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,163
Website

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

@VDP76 - what exactly are you trying to get to work with these packages?  The dependencies for gstreamer0.10-gconf point in several directions, and not just a single app

Thanks..


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#157 2012-05-20 09:52:06

VDP76
#! Bean Roaster
Registered: 2012-04-12
Posts: 826

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

VastOne wrote:

@VDP76 - what exactly are you trying to get to work with these packages?

Eventually I need to get gstreamer-properties to work...see here http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/post/220584/#p220584


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#158 2012-06-12 02:21:13

h8uthemost
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-08-09
Posts: 293

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Ok, I'm finally going to take the plunge and apt-pin. Few questions before I do though:

1: Testing is probably the best one to pick, right? I don't want to include Unstable and Experimental. Just one.

2: This is what my etc/apt/preferences currently looks like:

Package: *
Pin: release n=statler
Pin-Priority: 1001

Package: *
Pin: release n=squeeze
Pin-Priority: 100

The TC recommends to set the priority for Testing to 400. Is this still the general consensus, or is there a different number I should pick?

3. And lastly, I've seen some people say to run sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade and some say to only run sudo apt-get update. Will apt-get update suffice?


We are a nice, friendly community here and I hope we stay that way.

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#159 2012-06-12 02:44:13

omns
#! wanderer
From: ~/
Registered: 2008-11-25
Posts: 5,131

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

^ If you pinning is properly setup then sudo apt-get upgrade shouldn't be a problem.

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#160 2012-06-13 04:25:51

lurka
Member
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 46

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Howdy!

Similarily to stonethumb's issue earlier on, apt wants to upgrade too many packages when I try to pull from testing. For example, I don't think emacs actually needs to be upgraded for me to download luakit.

EDIT- Shortened and summarized post.

Last edited by lurka (2012-06-15 02:54:56)

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#161 2013-03-02 10:51:37

Resident Bot
#! Die Hard
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2012-02-17
Posts: 573

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

If I wanted to update programs but NOT update my kernel as I have an old laptop and worry abt newer kernels) how would I stop the kernel updating.


Troll = not a fanatic
slave of #!  and arch

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#162 2013-03-02 13:21:08

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: #! Fringe Division
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,163
Website

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

If you have pinning setup correctly, you would not need to worry about it updating anything but what you tell it to update

From the original Post

hardran3 wrote:

Now we need to make sure these new sources do not update every package on our system. Open /etc/apt/preferences and replace its contents with the following.

Package: *
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: 400

Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 300

These set your priorities and 'rank' ...

Pinning should be viewed more as having the sources there so that you can get the apps individually

With the above setup you can then go for individual apps when needed. For example, I recently needed fluxbox from experimental so I did this:

sudo apt-get -t experimental install fluxbox

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#163 2013-08-17 01:46:03

august
#! Member
From: Brooklyn
Registered: 2011-05-26
Posts: 62

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Shouldn't the op be updated or the thread retired and replaced? I'm guessing a new user using Waldorf would have a minor disaster on their hands when they replace their sources with ones that point at Squeeze.

Last edited by august (2013-08-17 10:54:01)

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#164 2013-09-15 17:18:53

Resident Bot
#! Die Hard
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2012-02-17
Posts: 573

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

august wrote:

Shouldn't the op be updated or the thread retired and replaced? I'm guessing a new user using Waldorf would have a minor disaster on their hands when they replace their sources with ones that point at Squeeze.

+1 for what that geezer said  smile


Troll = not a fanatic
slave of #!  and arch

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#165 2013-09-18 23:17:36

hardran3
#! Junkie
From: forest town, lake land
Registered: 2011-02-26
Posts: 360

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

I'll look into updating the OP. Just installed #! on my work PC (Outlook 2003 running in a virtualbox, welcome to the future lol). Give me a week to get back up to speed on #!, I may need to switch at home too, currently running mint 14 there.

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#166 2013-09-19 01:03:53

chillicampari
Pinball Wizard
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 1,878

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Welcome back and good to see ya, hardran3!


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#167 2013-12-06 00:17:17

HALO
#! Member
Registered: 2013-10-29
Posts: 69

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Update??? I added all of my repositories as such into my sources list:

## CRUNCHBANG
## Compatible with Debian Wheezy, but use at your own risk.
deb http://packages.crunchbang.org/waldorf waldorf main
# deb-src http://packages.crunchbang.org/waldorf waldorf main

## DEBIAN STABLE
deb http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy main contrib non-free
deb http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy main contrib non-free

##UNSTABLE/TESTING/EXPERIMENTAL
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free

## DEBIAN SECURITY
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main

## BACKPORTS
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian wheezy-backports main contrib non-free

## MULTIMEDIA
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free

##TEMPORARY
#deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/DarkPlayer:/Pipelight/Debian_7.0/ ./
# deb http://archive.getdeb.net/ubuntu quantal-getdeb apps
# deb-src http://archive.getdeb.net/ubuntu quantal-getdeb apps
deb http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/ubuntuzilla/mozilla/apt all main

and preferences:

Package: *
Pin: release a=waldorf
Pin-Priority: 1001

Package: *
Pin: release a=wheezy
Pin-Priority: 900

Package: *
Pin: release a=wheezy-backports
Pin-Priority: 800

Package: *
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 600

Package: *
Pin: release a=experimental
Pin-Priority: 200

But when I do a --dry-run to see what will happen when I install something like chromium-browser, apt-get wants to replace half of my system.

Can somebody possibly shed some light on this and why it is trying to pull from these repos?

When I check apt-cache policy for any particular program, the priorities look fine.

My goal is to be able to add whatever program or library I need and have it pull from stable/wheezy without touching any other repos unless I specify it -t

Last edited by HALO (2013-12-06 00:36:10)


I am up to neither good nor bad, but what serves me.
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#168 2013-12-06 01:13:56

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 735

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

HALO wrote:

My goal is to be able to add whatever program or library I need and have it pull from stable/wheezy without touching any other repos unless I specify it -t

Then you should pin every repo except stable at 100 or less. Backports in particular is not designed to be pinned at all (it automatically gets a priority of 100). Unfortunately, even this will not allow you to achieve your goal.

http://manpages.debian.net/cgi-bin/man. … &locale=en
http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/

A common misconception with pin priorities is that "higher always wins" -- there are thresholds and specific meanings for the various priorities, and dependency issues that always have to be sorted out. Pinning in itself is really a hack designed to give people the impression that they can pull from all the branches without difficulty. As you have seen, this is not really true.

Seriously, you are asking for major borkage with a sources.list like that. You will have much less trouble if you just upgrade to sid and be done with it. The problems you are seeing are the result of package upgrades requiring dependency upgrades to go along with them. Some of this can be avoided with --no-install-recommends, but not all. Eventually, a complex pinned system like the one you are trying to set up will break; it is in fact much more fragile than a system simply tracking sid.

[disclaimer] I don't pin, and never will. So I probably don't know what I'm talking about. But I might.[/disclaimer]

Last edited by porkpiehat (2013-12-06 02:20:26)


Crunchbang is Debian. Debian is not Ubuntu. Ubuntu ppas and random symlinks can ruin your day. Don't be this guy.

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#169 2013-12-06 02:32:18

HALO
#! Member
Registered: 2013-10-29
Posts: 69

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

porkpiehat wrote:
HALO wrote:

My goal is to be able to add whatever program or library I need and have it pull from stable/wheezy without touching any other repos unless I specify it -t

Then you should pin every repo except stable at 100 or less. Backports in particular is not designed to be pinned at all (it automatically gets a priority of 100). Unfortunately, even this will not allow you to achieve your goal.

http://manpages.debian.net/cgi-bin/man. … &locale=en
http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/

A common misconception with pin priorities is that "higher always wins" -- there are thresholds and specific meanings for the various priorities, and dependency issues that always have to be sorted out. Pinning in itself is really a hack designed to give people the impression that they can pull from all the branches without difficulty. As you have seen, this is not really true.

Seriously, you are asking for major borkage with a sources.list like that. You will have much less trouble if you just upgrade to sid and be done with it. The problems you are seeing are the result of package upgrades requiring dependency upgrades to go along with them. Some of this can be avoided with --no-install-recommends, but not all. Eventually, a complex pinned system like the one you are trying to set up will break; it is in fact much more fragile than a system simply tracking sid.

[disclaimer] I don't pin, and never will. So I probably don't know what I'm talking about. But I might.[/disclaimer]

As of right now my system is pretty much just a vanilla wheezy system with the exception of the new 3.11 kernel out of backports, and a few ia32-libs and i386 dependencies from backports. I also have a dev version of libc6 which I had to grab from jessie repos in order to run a few progams (after this was installed I commented out jessie repos in my source list). Right now my system is pretty stable (I'd go as far as to say rock-solid). I'm not trying to maintain a large number of branch dependencies and repos, but sometimes there are apps with particular versions that can only be had outside of wheezy repos (which I generally pull from backports anyways to avoid breakage).

I understand that it was trying to pull a bunch of dependencies to match the version of the program, my issue was more that it was even trying to pull from another repo to begin with. You were right to assume that I thought the pinning would change how that would work. I think I may have misinterpreted, as this is what it sounds like he is trying to convey here in the OP. I probably misunderstood.  It indeed sounded like you could have the repos, but call them into use with "apt-get -t <blablarepohere> install <aprogram>" 

Indeed I don't plan on using apt-pinning if i can't maintain it in the manner that I was hoping to be ideal as I had explained earlier or if it going to cause headaches, so thank you for the explanation, I really don't want a sid system, so that is a no go. I'm just going to go back to my old method of un-commenting and commenting repos when I'm done with them. My computer demands a later kernel than what is stock with crunchbang to support my hardware, and so along with that comes new dependencies being:

SMXI at one point had 13.6 proprietary ATI drivers with a patch to work with later kernels, but now it seems they have dropped any proprietary support for video, and the xorg drivers make my fans go nuts as well as give me bad power management and cpu spikes , so I have had to resort to other measures which include later drivers and maintaining those dependencies.

Last edited by HALO (2013-12-06 03:04:40)


I am up to neither good nor bad, but what serves me.
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#170 2013-12-06 07:19:07

porkpiehat
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2012-10-02
Posts: 735

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Pinning repos at 100 or lower is supposed to mean "install only when I say so, but upgrade what I already have when necessary" (that's why backports gets a 100 pin by default) so theoretically that should work, but now that I really think about it this might not work if you pulled a package from testing and later one of its dependencies got an upgrade in sid. Pinning at 1 might be better -- this is the priority the experimental repo gets by default, and means "install only when I say so, and don't automatically upgrade from here." You can read the man page ("man apt_preferences") for more information about the priorities.

Commenting and uncommenting might be safer, but this will prevent upgrades to any packages you already have from the now commented-out repos, and could cause problems of its own.

Pulling from backports whenever possible and only using testing or sid when absolutely necessary (as it sounds like you are doing) is also safer.

I think it's interesting that you are so set on not using sid, but in fact the mixed system you have sounds like it was much more difficult to build and maintain (as is typical for a mixed-source system). But of course the decision is yours.

The more I read about pinning, the more I find that even the "experts" don't seem to know exactly how it works, or to be able to come up with consistent recommendations for its use.

Last edited by porkpiehat (2013-12-06 08:00:24)


Crunchbang is Debian. Debian is not Ubuntu. Ubuntu ppas and random symlinks can ruin your day. Don't be this guy.

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#171 2013-12-06 23:45:50

HALO
#! Member
Registered: 2013-10-29
Posts: 69

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

porkpiehat wrote:

Pinning repos at 100 or lower is supposed to mean "install only when I say so, but upgrade what I already have when necessary" (that's why backports gets a 100 pin by default) so theoretically that should work, but now that I really think about it this might not work if you pulled a package from testing and later one of its dependencies got an upgrade in sid. Pinning at 1 might be better -- this is the priority the experimental repo gets by default, and means "install only when I say so, and don't automatically upgrade from here." You can read the man page ("man apt_preferences") for more information about the priorities.

Commenting and uncommenting might be safer, but this will prevent upgrades to any packages you already have from the now commented-out repos, and could cause problems of its own.

Pulling from backports whenever possible and only using testing or sid when absolutely necessary (as it sounds like you are doing) is also safer.

I think it's interesting that you are so set on not using sid, but in fact the mixed system you have sounds like it was much more difficult to build and maintain (as is typical for a mixed-source system). But of course the decision is yours.

The more I read about pinning, the more I find that even the "experts" don't seem to know exactly how it works, or to be able to come up with consistent recommendations for its use.

I don't know... You *almost* had me consider a sid dist-upgrade. But then I did a crunchbang sid google search and I was dizzied with thread after thread of issues integrating cb and sid. That sounds like a no go. It seems that one would basically end up getting rid of cb-metapackages and basically "roasting" a mimick of CB.

I would rather deal with Arch if I was going to go that route (which is just waaaaaay too much dicking around- I have two infant girls, they don't care about my lust for computer geekdom). This is just one set of libs from Jessie and some backported apps. If it was to become unsustainable, I would just downgrade that single set of libs, but seeing as how none of my current apps don't care that libc is a newer version, I doubt that when they upgrade they are going to complain at that point either.

Oh well. I was hoping pinning worked differently. Thank you for the suggestions and at least I know something new. I'm off to read the man pages apt_preferences so as to get a more clear understanding of the available options. Had I done this in the first place, I wouldn't be asking all of this haha.


I am up to neither good nor bad, but what serves me.
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#172 2014-06-03 20:27:08

Alad
#! Little Rocket Man
From: wiki.archlinux.org
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 1,054
Website

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Not sure where to put this (so it's visible enough), but I've made an /etc/apt/preferences file that should* prevent most breakage with non-wheezy sources:

# Default: 500
# Backports: 100
# Experimental: 1


# Crunchbang
Package: *
Pin: release a=waldorf
Pin-Priority: 990

# ------------------
# Debian backports
# ------------------

Package: *
Pin: release a=wheezy-backports
Pin-Priority: 200

# ------------------
# Third-party
# ------------------

# deb-multimedia.org
Package: *
Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
Pin-Priority: 100

# MEPIS Community
Package: *
Pin: release a=mepis
Pin-Priority: 150

# MEPIS Community (testing)
Package: *
Pin: release c=test
Pin-Priority: 50

# MX-14
Package: *
Pin: release a=mx
Pin-Priority: 100

# ------------------
# Debian Unstable
# ------------------

Package: *
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: 50

Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 10

# ------------------
# Blacklist
# ------------------

Package: *
Pin: origin "ppa.launchpad.net"
Pin-Priority: -10

Package: libc6*
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: -10

Package: libc6*
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: -10

Package: libc6*
Pin: release a=experimental
Pin-Priority: -10

*Still highly recommended to avoid this, unless you exactly know what you're doing. Always check with apt-cache policy and step back if you see any unexpected upgrades.

Last edited by Alad (2014-06-03 20:32:24)

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#173 2014-06-03 20:41:28

Head_on_a_Stick
#! Cat
From: A land of pure imagination
Registered: 2014-01-21
Posts: 1,231

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

^ Blacklisting ppa's & libc6: I like it big_smile


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Don't be a Help Vampire
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#174 2014-07-07 23:00:07

wagmic1
#! Member
Registered: 2013-11-15
Posts: 91

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Hi Alad can you show your souce list too please


I need to learn how to speak/write English big_smile
latest Firefox on #! handylinux

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Be excellent to each other!

#175 2014-07-07 23:54:25

Alad
#! Little Rocket Man
From: wiki.archlinux.org
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 1,054
Website

Re: Apt Pinning and You: Living on the Edge with #!

Expect breakage. But no help to fix it.  devil

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/AladW … urces.list

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