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#501 2012-03-28 08:29:22

servingwater
#! Junkie
Registered: 2009-02-28
Posts: 462

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

gutterslob wrote:

Awesome is probably difficult to cover simply because they could decide to change everything with the next version, which in turn would render your impressions useless. Who knows, Awesome in 2 years time might be written in Objective C and be available via Apples' App Store tongue

big_smile
That made me smile..


@2ManyDogs

Another nice review and another wm I didn't even know existed.
I see you still going strong.

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#502 2012-03-28 11:41:17

saneks
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-10-01
Posts: 999

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

googling oroborus made me read weird esoteric theosophic stuff for a while. crazy start of last century people. yikes.


eee701 user & other lap/desktops

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#503 2012-03-28 11:45:40

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Posting just so 2MD doesn't think he's been abandoned. Btw, 

apt-get install xmonad -s
NOTE: This is only a simulation!
      apt-get needs root privileges for real execution.
      Keep also in mind that locking is deactivated,
      so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation!
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  ghc6 ghc6-doc libffi-dev libghc6-mtl-dev libghc6-mtl-doc libghc6-x11-dev libghc6-x11-doc libghc6-x11-xft-dev
  libghc6-x11-xft-doc libghc6-xmonad-contrib-dev libghc6-xmonad-contrib-doc libghc6-xmonad-dev
  libghc6-xmonad-doc libgmp3-dev libgmpxx4ldbl
Suggested packages:
  ghc6-prof haskell-doc libghc6-mtl-prof libghc6-x11-prof libghc6-x11-xft-prof libghc6-xmonad-contrib-prof
  libghc6-xmonad-prof libgmp3-doc libmpfr-dev
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  ghc6 ghc6-doc libffi-dev libghc6-mtl-dev libghc6-mtl-doc libghc6-x11-dev libghc6-x11-doc libghc6-x11-xft-dev
  libghc6-x11-xft-doc libghc6-xmonad-contrib-dev libghc6-xmonad-contrib-doc libghc6-xmonad-dev
  libghc6-xmonad-doc libgmp3-dev libgmpxx4ldbl xmonad 

vs

apt-get install --no-install-recommends xmonad -s
NOTE: This is only a simulation!
      apt-get needs root privileges for real execution.
      Keep also in mind that locking is deactivated,
      so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation!
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Recommended packages:
  libghc6-xmonad-dev libghc6-xmonad-doc
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  xmonad
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

Inst xmonad (0.9.1-2+b1 Debian:6.0.4/stable [amd64])
Conf xmonad (0.9.1-2+b1 Debian:6.0.4/stable [amd64])

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#504 2012-03-28 12:39:38

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Thank you el_k. When do all the extra libraries become necessary? (Can xmonad be configured without them?)


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#505 2012-03-28 14:44:10

ThomasAdam
#! Member
Registered: 2009-10-30
Posts: 74

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

apprentice wrote:

i tried to follow tartan's thread (with rstrcogburn and thomas adams) but way too out there for me

It's Thomas *ADAM* -- note there's no 's' on the end of my surname.

-- Thomas Adam

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#506 2012-03-28 14:48:27

ThomasAdam
#! Member
Registered: 2009-10-30
Posts: 74

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

gutterslob wrote:

I'd love it if someone took the time to create some sort of FVWM guide for simpletons.

But this has already been done (the zensites guide; linked from fvwm.org) but it proved that maintaining such a thing is a nightmare with respect to FVWM's development.

-- Thomas Adam

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#507 2012-03-28 14:52:14

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

2ManyDogs wrote:

^ Thank you el_k. When do all the extra libraries become necessary? (Can xmonad be configured without them?)

You obviously can't recompile without GHC, though i have no idea how Debian's packaging differs from other distros.

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#508 2012-03-28 15:47:53

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Day 24 -- another stacker from the repos today, icewm. I've had this on my machine for a little while now, but I've put off writing the review because I could not find a theme I liked. There are a lot of icewm themes out there, but I don't really like most of them. I finally found one that I like a bit better, so here is the review.

As I mentioned, icewm is in the repos, and apt-get install works. Icewm creates its own desktop file, so it shows up in the GDM sessions list. When you first start it up, its default theme has a blue background and a panel at the bottom of the screen. It also has a built-in right-click menu which uses the auto-generated Debian menu for its "Programs" list. Even in its default configuration, icewm is very usable.

2012_03_06_135951_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

Mouse actions are what you'd expect; left-click and drag on the titlebar moves the window, left-click and drag on any border (except the top) resizes the window. You can also move a window with alt+left-click and drag anywhere in the window, and move or resize with alt+right-click and drag. If the mouse pointer is in the center of the window when you alt+right-click, dragging moves the window. Anywhere else and alt+right-click and drag resizes the window in the direction closest to the mouse pointer. Double-left-click toggles the window to maximized and back. Right-click on the titlebar starts a window-control menu:

2012_03_28_065433_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

Default mouse focus is "click-to-focus" -- windows must be left-clicked to receive the focus, and focused windows are raised to the top of the stack. Windows have three buttons: minimize, maximize, and close.

Icewm has bound keys for all sorts of things. You can move and resize windows with key sequences, including moving windows to the corners of the screen and maximizing vertically and horizontally. You can also raise and lower windows in the stack. By default icewm has four workspaces, accesed either with the pager on the toolbar or with the key sequence ctrl+alt+<n> where n is the workspace number. Windows can be sent to a different workspace with the key sequence ctr+alt+shift+<n> and icewm switches to the new desktop at the same time (the config file calls this command "KeySysWorkspace1TakeWin").

Alt+escape starts a "windows" menu listing all windows on all desktops. This menu can also be started from the right-click menu, and it allows you to select any available window and switch to it:

2012_03_28_083434_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

There are other useful key sequences, and they are all documented in a well-commented config file, so I'm not going to try to explain them all here.

Configuration

Icewm uses several plain-text configuration files. The defaults are at /usr/share/icewm. Copy them to ~/.icewm before modifying them.

keys

Contains user-defined key-code definitions. Here is an example that binds the super+shift+w sequence to start luakit:

key "Super+Shift+w" luakit

Valid modifiers are Alt, Ctrl, Shift, Meta, Super and Hyper.

menu

Contains definitions for the user portion of the right-click menu. Menus use this format:

prog name icon command

This is the entry for sakura:

prog terminal terminal-tango sakura

Sub-menus use this format:

menu name folder {
    prog name icon command
}

preferences

This is the big one. It contains definitions for almost any user-interface element you can think of, and has extensive comments. Each option shows  the default value. For example, this entry show that by default the "focus mode" submenu will be shown on the right-click menu:

#  Show focus mode submenu
# ShowFocusModeMenu=1 # 0/1

To change this value, simply remove the comment tag and change the default.

toolbar

Controls toolbar options. Many of the panel options (such as autohide and tooltip behavior) are set in the preferences file. The "toolbar" file simply controls what applications are shown as icons on the panel launcher. This file uses the same format as the menu:

prog name icon command

winoptions

Controls window options for specific applications, including causing apps to start on specific (or all) workspaces, whether apps show up in the windows list, and many others. There is more information in the online icewm manual.

themes and prefoverride

Icewm also uses themes. The theme definitions are contained in folders in the /usr/share/icewm/themes tree. Themes can modify any of the preferences, and themes override the preferences file. For this reason, icewm allows you to create a "prefoverride" file in your ~/.icewm folder. Settings in the prefoverride file supercede anything in the preferences or themes files.

startup

This is a simple script file that icewm runs when it starts. Use it as an autostart file for conky, nitrogen, etc.

programs

The default "Programs" menu, auto-generated on Debian systems. This menu item can be disabled in the preferences file if you prefer to use your own custom menu.

This may seem like a short review, but there is a lot of information on icewm on the internet, including this review that covers icewm much better than I can. I hope I've given you some idea of how easy it is to use and configure icewm. I mentioned that I finally found a theme I liked a bit better than most. It's called "Thinblack2" and it looks like this:

2012_03_27_111345_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

What I Liked About It

It's easy to use and much lighter than I expected. With iceweasel, thunar, and sakura running it only used ~118 MB; around the same amount as any of the minimal window managers I've reviewed. It has a lot of configuration options. It has good keyboard control. It works with conky and the panels (and I like its default panel).

What I Didn't Like About It

It has too many configuration options. Preferences, themes, prefoverride, menus, submenus... And there are even a bunch of GUI config tools available. It feels like it's been tacked together and added onto for some time. It took me a while to even figure out how to change the titlebar font. I think most of the themes (at least the ones I found) are ugly.

Links

"man icewm"
icewm home page
icewm manual
icewm review (much better than mine)
Thinblack2 icewm theme
icewm themes on box-look.org

tomorrow: herbstluftwm
back to the top

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-29 13:39:28)


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#509 2012-03-28 16:24:40

sqlpython
#! Die Hard
From: New England
Registered: 2011-11-28
Posts: 930

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Never used ICEwm but have been meaning to for years. Just never got around to it.
You saved me some trouble. I don't think I would bother to install it. No deficit that is  particularly glaring but does not seem to be my cup of tea.
Of course if someone told me a year ago that I would be configuring OpenBox I would have glared at them.. LOL

Thanks for the review.


OHCG #!, Jessie,, Siduction-13.1,  Slackware 14,  Bridge,, Sabayon 13.4,

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#510 2012-03-28 16:32:23

ivanovnegro
Ivan #000000
From: unstable madness
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 5,429

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

I have to say Icewm, that is one of the ugliest from default. smile It reminds me of Win95 or worse, but that is just cosmetics. It looks like an old comic.

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#511 2012-03-28 16:40:02

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ it was actually designed to look like Win95, and one of the themes even has a Windows-logo start button...


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#512 2012-03-28 16:52:38

ivanovnegro
Ivan #000000
From: unstable madness
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 5,429

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Yeah, but the Win start button!? OMG. Useful I think because of the Win button on your keyboard. smile

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#513 2012-03-28 18:13:23

pvsage
Internal Affairs
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 12,674

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Kinda off-topic, but maybe we can call "that key" the Win key (as in ftw) instead of the Windows or Super key. :trollface:

Last edited by pvsage (2012-03-28 18:14:17)


I'm a moderator here.  How are we doing?  Feedback is encouraged.

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#514 2012-03-28 18:38:53

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

pvsage wrote:

Kinda off-topic, but maybe we can call "that key" the Win key (as in ftw) instead of the Windows or Super key. :trollface:

It's called Mod4!

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#515 2012-03-28 19:02:37

Unia
#! Octo-portal-pussy
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2010-07-17
Posts: 4,017

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

el_koraco wrote:
pvsage wrote:

Kinda off-topic, but maybe we can call "that key" the Win key (as in ftw) instead of the Windows or Super key. :trollface:

It's called Mod4!

+1!

And as Alt is Mod1, what actually is Mod2 and Mod3?


If you can't sit by a cozy fire with your code in hand enjoying its simplicity and clarity, it needs more work. --Carlos Torres
Github

I am a #! forum moderator. Feel free to send me a PM with any question you have!

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#516 2012-03-28 19:18:44

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Shift and Ctrl I guess.

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#517 2012-03-28 19:48:55

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 3,733

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

el_koraco wrote:
pvsage wrote:

Kinda off-topic, but maybe we can call "that key" the Win key (as in ftw) instead of the Windows or Super key. :trollface:

It's called Mod4!

No it's not, it's the cb key big_smile

cbkey.png


Artwork at deviantArt;  Iceweasel Personas;  SLiM #! Themes;  Openbox themes

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#518 2012-03-28 19:54:13

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Oooh, now that's cool smile


Support #!Waldorf • Debian sid • Xubuntu • siduction • Peppermint • OpenBox • Xfce • LXDE •

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#519 2012-03-28 20:19:13

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 3,733

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

SabreWolfy wrote:

^ Oooh, now that's cool smile

The full pic is in this one-post "thread" roll


Artwork at deviantArt;  Iceweasel Personas;  SLiM #! Themes;  Openbox themes

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#520 2012-03-28 21:37:23

apprentice
#! Member
From: 43°42′N - 79°23′W
Registered: 2012-02-04
Posts: 85

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

ThomasAdam wrote:
apprentice wrote:

i tried to follow tartan's thread (with rstrcogburn and thomas adams) but way too out there for me

It's Thomas *ADAM* -- note there's no 's' on the end of my surname.

-- Thomas Adam

maybe it was a different thomas ADAMS

but ya
missed the apostrophe and didn't edit:D


So come up to the lab...
And see what's on the slab

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#521 2012-03-28 21:56:52

anticapitalista
#! Member
Registered: 2010-08-03
Posts: 92

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Good review of icewm. icewm is a very under-rated wm IMO mainly because the wm cool-kids have ignored it due due its old aesthetics. icewm is very light, fast and configurable. On my box, icewm uses slightly more RAM than fluxbox and jwm, but less than openbox, fvwm and some tilers like awesome, wmii and even spectrwm.
I'd hedge a bet that in 5 years time, icewm will still be around and used, while many if not most of the wm's reviewed here will be gone.

Looking forward to reading the next 6. Great thread!

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#522 2012-03-29 01:25:42

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ thanks. I know you're a fan, and was hoping you wouldn't be disappointed. I feel the same way about jwm (underappreciated, igonored because it's not cool...)

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-29 01:25:56)


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#523 2012-03-29 11:04:25

tenkainen
Member
From: Tampere, Finland
Registered: 2011-08-16
Posts: 30

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

ivanovnegro wrote:

I have to say Icewm, that is one of the ugliest from default. smile It reminds me of Win95 or worse, but that is just cosmetics. It looks like an old comic.

I went even further: Running Windows 3.1 in dosbox in Win 3.1 look-a-like Icewm theme.
screenshot-26022012-161620.png

In all seriousness, Icewm is a fine wm. I'd use it, if I wasn't addicted to tiling.

And nice review again, 2ManyDogs.

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#524 2012-03-29 12:54:32

m5
#! CrunchBanger
From: 200 years ago.
Registered: 2011-12-08
Posts: 221

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

@2ManyDogs :
Fantastic job,Thanks again for these reviews,
Is cwm and fwvm on your list of window managers that will be reviewed? smile


Keep digging.
Linux beginner.

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#525 2012-03-29 13:18:14

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ thanks M5. I'm using cwm right now, and since it was based on evilwm and I've already reviewed evilwm and sithwm (and I think people are a little tired of the minimal stackers) I probably won't get to it.

And we've discussed fvwm a little here, but it's so configurable I really don't think I could get a handle on it well enough (in a short time) to do a good review.

Sorry.


Be eggsalad to each other.

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