CrunchBang Linux

kri5

#! Die Hard

From: L.G.C. UK

Registered: 2011-11-10

Posts: 568

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Thanks guys. 

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#! Waldorf - 64bit - Xfce

dkeg

#! Die Hard

From: PA

Registered: 2011-12-05

Posts: 566

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Just have one problem now, how do you run 'moc' ?
I tried:

moc

in the terminal but i just get the 'command not found' error.

EDIT:  Not to worry, have figured it out myself.  Thanks 2ManyDogs not only are you supplying great reviews and tempting me with minimalist WMs, now I find myself looking at CLI apps. 

Back to old school.

I hear ya kri5.  my next tackle is trying to figure out, or find a tutorial of getting skype working with irssi or wee-chat.  Anyone here have that working?

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the rocky path may just be the best path  | community  |  linuxbbq | dotshare

dkeg

#! Die Hard

From: PA

Registered: 2011-12-05

Posts: 566

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

@2ManyDogs, you use sakura.  Any particular reason?

because terminator loads really slowly on my machine (is that what you mean by "laggy"?) and sakura loads quickly

I am going to try this out over the w/e.

Great! That's what I'm hoping for with this series...

Well, that too, but sometimes it seems a bit laggy when executing a command, like sudo whatever, and it takes a sec to get the 'enter password', or ls, etc.  When i've played with others, the response when executing commands seems snappier.

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the rocky path may just be the best path  | community  |  linuxbbq | dotshare

h8uthemost

#! Junkie

Registered: 2011-08-09

Posts: 286

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Well, that too, but sometimes it seems a bit laggy when executing a command, like sudo whatever, and it takes a sec to get the 'enter password', or ls, etc.  When i've played with others, the response when executing commands seems snappier.

I was using Terminator also for its splitting features. And this forum turned me onto tmux. Not only does it split, but it, combined with whatever terminal you use, is lighter and way faster than Terminator. After you get used to it and its commands I'm sure you'll leave Terminator behind.

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Athos

#! CrunchBanger

Registered: 2011-09-28

Posts: 108

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Awesome review of tmux, I will try it out shortly

(I don't know what el_korako might think, but it's a BSD-licensed program, soooo.... he should be about to do some of his trolling XD)

Kind of off-topic, but I'm glad to see my somaFM playlist in the screenshots!!
(if I'm not mistaken...)

2ManyDogs

dv#!

From: elsewhere

Registered: 2011-11-22

Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ No Athos, you are not mistaken, I use your playlist often. Thank you.

(edit -- if anyone else is interested, check out the link; the playlist also works in vlc if you don't like mocp)

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-27 13:13:13)

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Athos

#! CrunchBanger

Registered: 2011-09-28

Posts: 108

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ No Athos, you are not mistaken, I use your playlist often. Thank you.

You are welcome!

Thank you for the WM turistic guide.

Once you're ended, I think it may be worth it to take the whole 30 days and put them together in the wiki, or in a sticky forum thread.

I mean...this is THE reference of the WM's!

el_koraco

#!/loony/bun

From: inside Ed

Registered: 2011-07-25

Posts: 4,646

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

I don't know what el_korako might think, but it's a BSD-licensed program, soooo....

At least it doesn't have the foul smell of wildebeest.

2ManyDogs

dv#!

From: elsewhere

Registered: 2011-11-22

Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Day 20 -- 2/3 of the way. OK, show of hands; who thought I wouldn't make it this far?

Today we are looking at another interesting manual tiler -- ratpoison. Ratpoison and musca are similar but different. If you are interested in this one and you haven't read the musca review, you might want to go check it out so you can see just what the differences are.

Ratpoison is in the repos, so apt-get install works. It does not create its own .desktop file, so you must create one before ratpoison will show up in the sessions list in GDM. Refer to any of the earlier reviews where this is done (such as this one) for more information.

First, a little more terminology. By default, ratpoison has only one virtual desktop. The desktop can be divided into one or more tiles, called frames. An application runs in a window, and a window must be in a frame to be visible. If there are more frames on the desktop than there are windows (running apps) some of the frames will be empty. If there are more windows than frames, some of the windows will be hidden. So far this is very similar to musca.

Where ratpoison and musca differ is in their concept of "groups." In musca, a group is a set of windows on one virtual desktop. Changing groups changes from one desktop to another, and windows from only one group are visible at one time. In ratpoison, a group is just a set of windows. By default there is only one group, but you can create additional groups. Changing groups changes the set of windows you can select to place in frames, but windows from more than one group can be visible on the desktop at the same time.

Using Ratpoison

This is another window manager where you will want to read (and possibly print) the man page before you start. There is also a very good on-line manual. When you first start ratpoison, it displays a welcome message:

Welcome to ratpoison! Hit `C-t ?' for help. `C-t .' for menu.

"C-t" means control-t, so pressing ctrl-t+? brings up a screen showing all the available bound key sequences:

And ctrl-t+. brings up a root menu, with the familiar Debian auto-generated menu. The menu is not even mentioned in the online documenation, and because there are so many better ways to navigate ratpoison, I suspect very few people use it. I am not going to say much more about it in this review.

Ctrl-t+c starts a terminal. Because the default desktop contains only one large frame, the terminal starts full-screen. You can then either start other apps from the terminal, or from ratpoison's "exec" option. Ctrl-t+! brings up a shell exec command prompt in the upper-right corner of the screen, and you can enter commands. ratpoison provides a /bin/sh -c, and here I am starting iceweasel from the prompt:

As with musca, because there is still only one frame, iceweasel starts full screen. The terminal window is still there, but it is hidden. You can either select its window with the ctrl-t+n (next) or ctrl-t+p (previous) commands, or by window number. Ctrl-t+w brings up a list of windows and their numbers. You can't select the window from the list, but once you know the window number you can select it with ctrl-t+<n> where <n> is the window number.

If you want to see more than one window, you must create more frames. Remember, this is a manual tiling window manager. Ctrl-t+s (small s) splits the current frame in half along the vertical axis into two new frames, one above the other. Ctrl-t+S (capital S) splits the current frame in half  along the horizontal axis into two frames side by side. Frames can be resized, and frame contents (windows) can be swapped with the contents of adjacent frames.

If you continue to add new frames, hidden windows will be raised to fill the new frames. Once there are more frames than windows, any new frames you add will be empty. ratpoison does not put borders around frames, so adding new frames once the new frames are empty can result in a very confusing mess of empty frames in what looks like a large empty space. We can remove frames (with the ctrl-T+R sequence); if the frame contains a window, the window is hidden, and it joins the collection of hidden windows that can be raised in any other frame on the desktop.

When there is more than one frame, frames can be selected with ctrl-t+(Left, Right, Up, Down). When a new frame is selected, a "Current Frame" message flashes briefly in the newly selected frame. There are no frame borders, so this is the only indication you have of the current focus. Here is another screenshot. You can't tell, but the large black area in the lower right corner contains several invisible frames.

Ratpoison also uses commands. The ctrl-t+: sequence starts a command prompt in the upper right corner of the screen where you can enter one of many built-in commands. The command set is large, and includes commands for window and frame manipulation and navigation as well as commands that control some of ratpoison's visual elements.

Frame layouts can be saved and restored. Groups (collections of windows) may be created, merged, and deleted, and windows may be added to or removed from groups. Remember that windows from more than one group can be visible at the same time. I found this very confusing.

Configuration

Because this is a keyboard-driven window manager, much of the configuration that can be done involves how the keyboard controls ratpoison. Ratpoison uses named "keymaps" for keyboard configuration. The "top" keymap contains commands that are accessed with a single key combination. Secondary keymaps can be accessed with a key sequence in the "top" keymap. The ctrl-t sequence is a sequence bound in the "top" keymap, and it activates the "root" keymap. All commands that are accessed by first pressing ctrl-t are in this root keymap. Sequences in the root keymap can be changed with the "bind" command. This command causes the ctrl-t+d sequence to start dmenu:

bind d exec dmenu_run

If ctrl-t does not work well for you as a root-keymap access sequence, you can change it with the "escape" command. This command changes the access sequence to ctrl-a:

escape C-a

Sequences in the "top" keymap may also be created or changed using the "definekey" command. This command causes the sequence super-F3 to start dmenu:

definekey top s-F3 exec dmenu_run

Definekey also works with the root keymap; the "bind" command is simply an alias for "definekey root".

Any command that can be run from the command prompt may also be run from the ratpoison configuration file (called ~/.ratpoisonrc by default). Here is my current .ratpoisonrc file:

exec rpws init 4 -a -k

exec conky -c conkyrc-top
exec nitrogen --restore

source .ratpoisonkeys

I mentioned that ratpoison has only one desktop by default. It can be extended to use multiple desktops by the rpws script included with the window manager. The first line in my .ratpoisonrc uses this script to create 4 workspaces. These workspaces can then be selected using alt+F(1,2,3,4). Windows in one workspace are not available in other workspaces.

The "source" command in my .ratpoisonrc causes ratpoison to read commands from a file. I put all my key definitions in this file so I can change them and reload the file without restarting ratpoison. Here are some of the bound keys:

definekey top s-Up       focusup
definekey top s-Down  focusdown
definekey top s-Left      focusleft
definekey top s-Right   focusright

definekey top s-h    hsplit
definekey top s-v    vsplit
definekey top s-H    hsplit 2/3
definekey top s-V    vsplit 2/3
definekey top s-c    next
definekey top s-p    prev
definekey top s-r   remove
definekey top s-R    resize
definekey top s-u    undo

definekey top s-semicolon  colon
definekey top s-slash      help root
definekey top s-question   help top

definekey top s-t    exec sakura

definekey top s-C-Q    quit
definekey top s-C-r    restart
definekey top s-C-s source .ratpoisonkeys

If you look through this, you'll see I made ratpoison work a little more like musca. I can navigate frames using super+(Up, Down, Left, Right), I can split frames with super+h and v, and access the command prompt and help screens with a single sequence. Notice also that the key definitions are case sensitive; s-h is different from s-H. This is why I bound the "colon" command to s-semicolon -- it's on the same key, but I don't have to press shift to access it. The "help root" command displays the ctrl-t+? help screen, and "help top" displays all the keys bound in the "top" menu. You can also see that I bound quit, restart, and source to single sequences (the C stands for control).

I also created a new keymap. The following code in my .ratpoisonkeys file defines a new keymap called "super-x", adds some bound keys to it, and then binds the keymap to the top sequence super+x. This allowed me to create a sort of "applications" keymap, where I can start an application by pressing super-x (holding down the windows key and pressing the x key) and then pressing the letter associated with the app in the keymap:

newkmap   super-x
definekey super-x d      exec dmenu_run
definekey super-x w        exec iceweasel
definekey super-x W        exec thunar
definekey super-x f        exec thunar
definekey super-x e        exec geany
definekey super-x v     exec viewnior
definekey top     s-x     readkey super-x

You can also tell ratpoison to leave an area of the screen alone; this allowed me to reserve a little space at the top of the screen for conky, and to bind keys to show and hide the reserved space. I put these in the super-x keymap because I don't use them very often:

definekey super-x B    set padding 0 18 0 0
definekey super-x b    set padding 0 0 0 0

With all these configuration changes, ratpoison was much easier for me to use. Here is what it looked like with a desktop background and with conky at the top (also notice that there is an empty frame where the desktop background can be seen):

What I Like About It

Very little mouse interaction. I have found that I dislike using the mouse more and more as I use musca and ratpoison. I have even added more keymappings to the other window managers I use so I can use the mouse less. Good online documentation. I like being able to add new keymaps and to map keys to the top so I don't always have to use the default ctrl-t keymap. I'm happy support for multiple desktops was added. I like that the config file is just one long set of commands.

What I Don't Like About It

Groups just confuse me. They seem like a way around only having one desktop, and I found them very difficult to use. Maybe with more time I'd understand them a bit better, but with desktop suppport added I just forgot about groups. I wish it had borders around selected and unselected frames. Without borders I found it way too easy to create a mess of invisible frames.

Links

"man ratpoison"
"man rpws"
ratpoison manual
ratpoison search on the #! forum
ratpoison on the Arch wiki
ratpoison on the Arch forum

tomorrow, another stacking window manager: sithwm
back to the top

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-04-10 23:32:02)

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Be eggsalad to each other.

pucko

Member

From: ‽

Registered: 2012-03-11

Posts: 37

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

I always belived you would make it through the 30 days....

Very nice review. I've wanted to try Ratpoison but your writings make me more interested in musca.

Keep the awesome work up, only a few days left...

lowrider

#! Junkie

From: Germany

Registered: 2011-09-10

Posts: 433

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Wow, this thread amazes me more and more, Just thinking what will be after this glorious 30 days? Mabe we (I, you, whoever) should start another thread like "All the other WM's not mentioned yet" or so... There are so many WM's out there -E16/17, amiwm, echinus, windowmaker, ovlwm...- to name a few. Or maybe @2manyWM rename the thread to 30 Win... and beyond

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came for the distro, stayed for the community
streamripper :: smxi

2ManyDogs

dv#!

From: elsewhere

Registered: 2011-11-22

Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ thanks lowrider. Some of the ones you mentioned will definitely take a little longer to get a good look at. For example, I would be happy if someone who uses E17 everyday would write a review, but it's just too big and complicated for me to get a handle on in a short time, and I know I couldn't write a good review.

I just hope people get interested in WM hopping -- and I think that's already happened

(edit) and the mandatory teaser -- this is posted from sithwm -- coming up next week...

(and another edit) the echinus home page seems to be gone (plhk.ru) -- I think I can still get it in the Arch AUR, but that's not a good option for most #! users -- do you know another place I can get it?

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-24 21:45:45)

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Be eggsalad to each other.

lowrider

#! Junkie

From: Germany

Registered: 2011-09-10

Posts: 433

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ thanks lowrider. Some of the ones you mentioned will definitely take a little longer to get a good look at. For example, I would be happy if someone who uses E17 everyday would write a review, but it's just too big and complicated for me to get a handle on in a short time, and I know I couldn't write a good review.

...and here is my problem, my english is not good enough to write a review. I am using Enlightenment and WindowMaker now periodically (does this term exist?) since i started linux back in 198?. In German yes but not in English... (answering this costs me 10 minutes to translate my german thoughts to english and please don't tell me all the mistakes i am doing by writing this down )

I just hope people get interested in WM hopping -- and I think that's already happened

+1 for that, really cool

(edit) and the mandatory teaser -- this is posted from sithwm -- coming up next week...

(and another edit) the echinus home page seems to be gone (plhk.ru) -- I think I can still get it in the Arch AUR, but that's not a good option for most #! users -- do you know another place I can get it?

Sorry about that, but maybe our user arpinux who made this beautiful little distro called livarp: http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … -managers/ can help.

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came for the distro, stayed for the community
streamripper :: smxi

2ManyDogs

dv#!

From: elsewhere

Registered: 2011-11-22

Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ your (translated) english is excellent. I would never have known if you had not told me Much better than my German I'm sure

Maybe I will take another look at E17...

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cJones

#! Junkie

From: Oregon

Registered: 2012-02-21

Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Darn only ten days left...oh well, Thanks for the Ratpoison review 2Many, I have been waiting for this one!

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d(o_O)b

2ManyDogs

dv#!

From: elsewhere

Registered: 2011-11-22

Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ was it everything you'd hoped for?

(and BTW, we need an update on your sandbox machine -- what did you do with it?)

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gensym

#! Junkie

Registered: 2011-10-17

Posts: 438

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

@2Many

You can have borders around selected windows with smt. like

set fwcolor red

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2ManyDogs

dv#!

From: elsewhere

Registered: 2011-11-22

Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ thanks! I played with the colors, but obviously not enough...

and now I can set the color of selected windows and unselected windows, but I can still create a mess of invisible frames  in an empty space...

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-24 23:44:24)

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h8uthemost

#! Junkie

Registered: 2011-08-09

Posts: 286

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Excellent RP review. I learned a lot from it. Especially how to add Super+(key) to open apps, control the desktop. Now that I know how to do that, instead of constantly hitting Ctrl+t, I'm going to be using rp more and more.

One thing I'm hoping you'll try out for me. You have your rpws script enabled, right? Well, open a few apps, then hit Ctrl+t : then use the command :restart. Tell me if after the restart if all your apps are still visible.

Because when I enable desktops, everytime I :restart RP all my apps are gone. They're still enabled, but I don't know where the hell they went. So I had to :quit out of RP and get back into it. So eventually I just disabled my rpws script since I'm always adding/changing stuff to my config file and restarting. But I hate have only one dekstop.,,

Anyways, thanks for that review. I was waiting on that one.

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We are a nice, friendly community here and I hope we stay that way.

h8uthemost

#! Junkie

Registered: 2011-08-09

Posts: 286

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Oh and honestly, I didn't think you were going to stick with this project at first. But then after a handful or so of reviews I saw you were committed and that's when I got really excited about it. I just wish it were something 60/90 WM's in 60/90 Days instead.

EDIT: Didn't mean to double post.

Last edited by h8uthemost (2012-03-25 00:14:15)

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We are a nice, friendly community here and I hope we stay that way.

cJones

#! Junkie

From: Oregon

Registered: 2012-02-21

Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ was it everything you'd hoped for?

Do you even have to ask?

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d(o_O)b

2ManyDogs

dv#!

From: elsewhere

Registered: 2011-11-22

Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

So eventually I just disabled my rpws script since I'm always adding/changing stuff to my config file and restarting. But I hate have only one dekstop.,,

I'll try it, but I'd recommend the technique I used where you put the rpws in .ratpoisonrc, and then have that file load the stuff you change a lot with the source command (in a separate file) -- then you can use the source command to load the keys file (or bind a key to it) when you change it and not restart:

definekey top s-C-s source .ratpoisonkeys

I was hoping you'd see the review, because I remember you complaining about having to use ctrl-t all the time

(edit) I just tried a restart with a bunch of apps running, and it looks like what happens is that the apps (the windows) are still there but all the frames get deleted, so all the apps are hidden. Try creating new frames with split commands, or cycle the windows with ctrl-t+return or ctrl-t+p, and they are all still there. I'd still recommend the source method instead of restarting when you change the config...

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-25 02:50:22)

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h8uthemost

#! Junkie

Registered: 2011-08-09

Posts: 286

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Ok, 2many. Thanks for trying it out for me and thanks for the possible workaround. I appreciate the help.

EDIT: Oh yeah, ratpoison is SO much more bareable now that I know how to use the Super key to open apps and navigate around.

And yeah ratpoisonkeys suggestion works perfectly.

Thanks for making a favorite wm of mine just that much better...

Last edited by h8uthemost (2012-03-25 05:36:02)

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We are a nice, friendly community here and I hope we stay that way.

m5

#! CrunchBanger

From: 200 years ago.

Registered: 2011-12-08

Posts: 221

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

@2ManyDogs,thanks for reviews.

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Linux beginner.

p120d16y

#! Die Hard

From: Midwest

Registered: 2011-08-08

Posts: 800

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Oh man! How did I miss this thread for over a week? Good job and idea 2many, I will be thoroughly reading through this tomorrow. Interested to find out about a few of these, and if you've gotten to i3-wm yet.

EDIT: DAMN I wish I had the money for the sandbox machines already! This just made me super anxious to just dive in and get my hands dirty on some things I've wanted to try, but didn't want to break my custom tailored stable rig! UGGGHHHH.

Last edited by p120d16y (2012-03-25 08:51:26)

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