How "free as in freedom" is #!?

Ezprezo · 2012-03-20 03:35:22

Hello guys, It's been quite a long time since I last used Crunchbang because I went back to Windows, but I am back, and loving my experience this run around. I have also learned quite a bit about GNU/Linux, and some of the history behind it. A fellow named Richard Stallman who wrote lots of the original GNU programs has some "free as in freedom rules" he talks of, and recommends many distros on one of the websites I guess he works on. Debian is not one of them, and it isn't recommended due to the fact that you can download non-free software from the repository.

Now, I am not about to sacrifice using this distro for freedom, even though I do agree with many things he says about freedom, and I will try my best to find out if the software I download on the repo is free, but I was wondering how Crunchbang stands at the base install without any extra downloading? Is it all free as in freedom? Is everything open source, but not necessarily free? Are there proprietary blobs of code here and there?

Just an interesting thing I am wondering. Looking foreword to hearing.

P.S. Sorry if this has been answered before. I did a bit of hunting before making the post, and found nothing.

smoki · 2012-03-20 04:40:59

You will never found freedom, you can just imagine it smile . All the time, with some time outs .:lol:

No, Crunchbang Linux is not one of the freedom advertazing distros it is here because of their users, people, human beings. We smoke, eat bacons, we drink beer a lot, lot and tried many good or bad things in our short lives.

Last edited by smoki (2012-03-20 04:41:24)

noman · 2012-03-20 04:49:40

If you're concerned about it you can try vrms.

┌─[Mon Mar 19][noman@ilium:~]
└─> vrms
               Non-free packages installed on ilium

figlet                    Frank, Ian & Glenn's Letters
firmware-ipw2x00          Binary firmware for Intel Pro Wireless 2100, 2200 and
firmware-iwlwifi          Binary firmware for Intel Wireless 3945, 4965 and 5000
firmware-linux            Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kerne
firmware-linux-nonfree    Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kerne
firmware-ralink           Binary firmware for Ralink wireless cards
firmware-realtek          Binary firmware for Realtek wired and wireless network
human-icon-theme          Human Icon theme
lha                       lzh archiver
sun-java6-bin             Sun Java(TM) Runtime Environment (JRE) 6 (architecture
sun-java6-jre             Sun Java(TM) Runtime Environment (JRE) 6 (architecture
sun-java6-plugin          The Java(TM) Plug-in, Java SE 6
tangerine-icon-theme      Tangerine Icon theme
unrar                     Unarchiver for .rar files (non-free version)

                Contrib packages installed on ilium

b43-fwcutter              Utility for extracting Broadcom 43xx firmware
conky-all                 highly configurable system monitor (all features enabl
firmware-b43-installer    Installer package for firmware for the b43 driver
ttf-mscorefonts-installer Installer for Microsoft TrueType core fonts

  14 non-free packages, 1.3% of 1080 installed packages.
  4 contrib packages, 0.4% of 1080 installed packages.

98.3% is free enough for me, but if it's not for someone else they can start removing things and finding workarounds for some of this stuff.

axcraig · 2012-03-20 15:25:24

Thanks for pointing me to VRMS. I hadn't heard of it before. I am not a really concerned about it but it is very interesting. My attitude is that I will use whatever is the best product for my tastes and needs. It is really good to know that my needs are covered 98.5% by free software.

My main offenders are Skype, Virtualbox, Java, Codecs and my wifi drivers.

Dave W. · 2012-03-20 15:43:34

Interesting that you should bring this topic up. Have you checked out Jupiter Broadcasting and the Linux Action Show lately?

http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/1782 … as-s20e10/

http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/1807 … as-s21e01/

Interesting stuff.

gensym · 2012-03-20 15:45:46

Ezprezo wrote:

A fellow named Richard Stallman who wrote lots of the original GNU programs has some "free as in freedom rules" he talks of, and recommends many distros on one of the websites I guess he works on. Debian is not one of them, and it isn't recommended due to the fact that you can download non-free software from the repository.

<rant>
rms sees the word black and white. What he calls freedom, I call zealotry. I am thankful for all the things he has done, but sometimes it makes you wonder what he has been smoking.
</rant>

Ezprezo wrote:

Now, I am not about to sacrifice using this distro for freedom

Smart choice big_smile

pvsage · 2012-03-21 00:00:02

gensym wrote:

<rant>
rms sees the word black and white.

...and toeskin. tongue

Vansgo · 2012-03-21 00:11:02

I noticed, of course, beer was mentioned, as expected, in conjunction with open-source/free topic of conversation. On the other hand; No more ctrl, alt, del combo necessary to login - fancy that smile frees up a lot of unnecessary keystrokes.

lcafiero · 2012-03-21 01:27:30

True that, pvsage. The message he conveys may be great and necessary, but the messenger leaves a lot to be desired (and, no, I don't want to start a flame war over rms).

Ezprezo · 2012-03-22 22:19:31

Been a minute since I checked in on this thread, sorry for that. I am along with axcraig. I am an "offender," but if it does what I want, it does it good, and there's no sensible alternative, what can you do? Sure, you could just not use it, but that's not very productive. We all might end up sleeping on other people's couches if we do that.

Dave W, those talks (the first one of which I saw live streaming,) and a few other Youtube videos were the original reason I made this thread. I do say his views can be a bit extreme, but from an ethical standpoint, they do make some sense. Also, I find it funny they cut out the rude things Brian said at the end of the video. He was pretty offensive, and I lost respect. Anyways, ever since I made the first post I have become nothing but MORE in love with #!. I can't see ever leaving this distro as long as it stays with what seems to be the "general consensus of what should be in #!, and what should not" among the community, which I happen to fit in perfectly with. (Although, I must say I am not a frequent poster, but most certainly a frequent reader. I feel like I know some of you already.)

Last edited by Ezprezo (2012-03-22 22:21:55)

dubois · 2012-03-22 22:28:54

Ezprezo wrote:

.... Anyways, ever since I made the first post I have become nothing but MORE in love with #!. I can't see ever leaving this distro as long as it stays with what seems to be the "general consensus of what should be in #!, and what should not" among the community, which I happen to fit in perfectly with. (Although, I must say I am not a frequent poster, but most certainly a frequent reader. I feel like I know some of you already.)

I've been quietly following this thread and what you said was very well said. I, for one, find you sensible and articulate. Perhaps you should post more often. wink

ivanovnegro · 2012-03-23 00:06:18

Ezprezo wrote:

...Also, I find it funny they cut out the rude things Brian said at the end of the video.

I am not a big admirer of RMS, not even of Linus, they are just persons but I think I understand the points of RMS, I do not agree maybe with many things but he has his points and principles, he has an ideology. Basically he does not only see everything black and white, maybe the side effect of ideologies, rather he stays on his principles, that is very rare in our world. Would I still stay with my principles I would never make an account on Facebook, but you know how it is, friends etc. Convenience is also one of the things why our world cannot be better sometimes.

I saw the LAS and I saw the silly arguments of Brian. I can only say one thing, I think RMS is a thinker, he is intelligent, Brian not that much. If we all would act out of convenience, opportunism and pragmatism, the world will always stay how it is.

PS: Welcome to our little community. smile Have fun!

Last edited by ivanovnegro (2012-03-23 00:07:05)

slaxtiga · 2012-03-26 18:25:53

I was just about to start a thread about this. This was the first question that came to my mind after switching. Initially I agreed with RMS's extreme approach but on further thought I doubt that forcing a system to use 100% free software is viable in the near future, let alone presently. I agree with gensym that his thinking stems more towards zealotry because the total exclusion of (currently) necessary proprietory software, in my mind, is a hindrance to the spread of free software (let alone freedom). I don't think that users should be expected to sacrifice most of the functions of their old setups which they valued in order to support free software. This leaves behind users who agree with the ethics of the free software movement who would have otherwise contributed. Unless I'm wrong that seems to be a bad idea.

Free software? Woo! Ethics? Woo! Freedom? Woo! Options and experimentation are important to freedom. I'm curious as to what extent #! supports free software but its not painfully relevant since it is initially clear that it supports it to an extent that is relevant to freedom. Also important: how would the laid-back attitude of the community be maintained if we had to cause a lot of discomfort by refusing to include the option to use what we want (:

Much respect to RMS but making sacrifices to support the ideology that he promotes is more important to me. Out of interest can you remember what distro's he recommends Ezprezo? Because from my understanding Debian seemed to best support FOSS but you made a good point that it does allow non-free software.

Have a cool and fun time everyone B)

Also smoki I love your comment.

Last edited by slaxtiga (2012-03-26 18:26:43)

Dave W. · 2012-03-26 18:58:42

Ezprezo wrote:

Dave W, those talks (the first one of which I saw live streaming,)...Also, I find it funny they cut out the rude things Brian said at the end of the video.

I'm a bit saddend by the creative editing. I didn't watch it via live stream.

ivanovnegro · 2012-03-26 19:03:02

slaxtiga wrote:

Out of interest can you remember what distro's he recommends Ezprezo?

I think it is gNewSense. Debian is not in his list because it gives you the possibilities to have non-free repos. Otherwise Debian supports heavily free software and you could have it RMS like.

slaxtiga · 2012-03-26 19:09:03

ivanovnegro wrote:

slaxtiga wrote:
Out of interest can you remember what distro's he recommends Ezprezo?
I think it is gNewSense. Debian is not in his list because it gives you the possibilities to have non-free repos. Otherwise Debian supports heavily free software and you could have it RMS like.

Oh I see. Thanks for the info. It blatantly promotes RMS since his videos are present in the screenshots of the 'modified desktop' on the main site. Its cool that a fully free software distro exists. Thats what I love about GNU/Linux (:

doxanthropos · 2012-03-26 19:27:04

ivanovnegro wrote:

I think it is gNewSense. Debian is not in his list because it gives you the possibilities to have non-free repos.

The fsf has a list of some distros that are considered free in their eye and the eye of rms. He uses gNewSense, but there are others.
Some time ago I actually tried to try the free-as-in-freedom-recommended-by-fsf-and-rms-distros, but most are not really active, to say the least. One that stuck with me was Trisquel, which is based on Ubuntu but with every unfree part removed. I installed it again two weeks ago on my distro-hopping partition and have been very surprised to see how good it became since I tried it the last time. Especially the flash part has gone through some healthy development.

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#1 2012-03-20 03:35:22

How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#2 2012-03-20 04:40:59

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#3 2012-03-20 04:49:40

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#4 2012-03-20 15:25:24

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#5 2012-03-20 15:43:34

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#6 2012-03-20 15:45:46

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#7 2012-03-21 00:00:02

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#8 2012-03-21 00:11:02

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#9 2012-03-21 01:27:30

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#10 2012-03-22 22:19:31

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#11 2012-03-22 22:28:54

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#12 2012-03-23 00:06:18

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#13 2012-03-26 18:25:53

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#14 2012-03-26 18:58:42

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#15 2012-03-26 19:03:02

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#16 2012-03-26 19:09:03

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

#17 2012-03-26 19:27:04

Re: How "free as in freedom" is #!?

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