SEARCH

Enter your search query in the box above ^, or use the forum search tool.

You are not logged in.

#226 2012-03-13 22:23:59

rhowaldt
#!*$%:)
Registered: 2011-03-09
Posts: 4,396

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

baaaahhh i hate to have nothing better to say, but i still want to say it: great reviews! keep it up! you're a hero 2ManyWMs!

Offline

Be excellent to each other!

#227 2012-03-13 22:32:14

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ thanks rhowaldt.


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#228 2012-03-13 23:55:11

anticapitalista
#! Member
Registered: 2010-08-03
Posts: 92

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Loving this thread.

I have tested out some of the wms mentioned and my experience on my box running antiX-sid is that fluxbox was slightly less RAM intensive than icewm then pekwm with openbox being the heaviest of the 'known' wms. jwm used a little bit less RAM than fluxbox.

Of course, if one is really into minimalism, scrap the gui interface and X and you will really see a huge drop in RAM use. maybe this could be another thread. (We started one at antiX a while back for anyone interested)
http://antix.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2778

Offline

#229 2012-03-14 00:01:23

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Thanks -- my experience also is that jwm is about as light as it gets, until you get to tilers like scrotwm or snapwm. There are some people here trying to "live in TTY" and I was bummed they started at the same time I started my WM thread hmm -- I wondered how to take a screen shot of tmux if I decide to use it as a "window manager" -- I'll have to check out fbgrab (if I ever have any free time). My next project will probably be CLI for as long as possible... many thanks for the link.

(edit) and I just checked the test box, and fluxbox is using 121 M with iceweasel, sakura, and thunar running, but again only 75 M with luakit. It's a close call... but iceweasel is deinitely bloat smile

(another edit) blackbox is at 67 M with luakit and 120 with iceweasel...

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-14 00:15:22)


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#230 2012-03-14 06:36:47

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: #! Fringe Division
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,163
Website

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Made this epic journey a sticky

Well done 2ManyDogs


VSIDO | SolusOS

Words That Build Or Destroy

Offline

#231 2012-03-14 07:35:47

cJones
#! Junkie
From: Oregon
Registered: 2012-02-21
Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Just stopping by to say congrats on sticky status (couldn't find the thread for a bit as I wasn't used to it being at the top), and good job on that last double review.


d(o_O)b

Offline

#232 2012-03-14 08:02:18

servingwater
#! Junkie
Registered: 2009-02-28
Posts: 461

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Fantastic thread 2ManyDogs!

I like how you concentrated on some of the lesser stacking wm's some of them I haven't even heard about like "wm2" and "LWM".

Given your nice little reviews I actually considering "WindowLab" and "wm2".
Haven't used a stacker in quite some time but those two look very intersting to me.

So many thanks again and I along with all the others look forward to the rest of your journey!

Offline

#233 2012-03-14 10:00:37

EnochRoot
#! Junkie
From: London, UK
Registered: 2011-10-15
Posts: 279
Website

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Agree with all the sentiments, am enjoying this thread immensely and it may even convince me to try a tiler again !

Offline

#234 2012-03-14 11:20:08

smoki
#! Junkie
Registered: 2012-02-09
Posts: 256

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Great journey across wms 2ManyDogs - i enjoy.

Link for the lwm and others.

Offline

#235 2012-03-14 11:27:25

doxanthropos
#! Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-03-30
Posts: 68

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

To escape the Iceweasle-Bloat with Stable Packages I learned on this Forum, that uzbl is also a great alternative.

Offline

#236 2012-03-14 11:42:29

h8uthemost
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-08-09
Posts: 296

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Thanks for the info 2many and Ivan.

I haven't heard of Luakit. I used Uzbl for a while a few months ago. And it's definitely lighter, but I couldn't get things like an adblocker to work with it. And I need an adblocker. Can't stand those annoying things popping up everywhere. So I switched back to Swiftfox and it's been the lightest(not to mention the fastest for me) of the major browsers that I've tried. Maybe I'll have a better experience with Luakit.

And I forgot all about htop. With Swiftfox, Sylpheed, Clipit, Nitrogen, and Sakura(with tmux) and rtorrent running(these are my main apps that I pretty much always have open), I'm around the 190mb mark in Pekwm. Which is about average for me with a floater. With all these along with conky running in Scrotwm I'm in the 170mb range. So maybe I'll just stick with tilers... I prefer them anyways but started giving floaters another chance because of your thread. Or...I should just take your advice and finally get off my ass and stick another 512mb of Ram in my machine. wink Even then though, I'll probably remain to be a stickler for Ram consumption.

EDIT: By the way, the same shit running in ratpoison I'm at the 150mb mark. So I'm pretty sure that's the best I've gotten with my usual apps open when it comes to a tiler. RP is pretty damn good.

Last edited by h8uthemost (2012-03-14 11:59:08)


We are a nice, friendly community here and I hope we stay that way.

Offline

#237 2012-03-14 13:23:42

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Thanks for all the replies, and I am honored by my new "sticky" status. I am especially happy to see some people say they have been encouraged to try a different WM because of this thread -- that's exactly what I was hoping for. I have one more stacking WM coming up, then I will start the tilers with scrotwm tomorrow.

I also have a suggestion -- if you try one of these WMs, or if you have experience with one of them, please start a "Getting Started with <wm>" topic. There is already a Getting Started with Scrotwm topic, and it's how I got interested in tilers in the first place. That way people who are just interested in one or another WM can find all the how-to information in one place, rather than spread out throughout this thread. And as much as I'd like to see a record for post counts and views, I think it would help people more if some of the information was in other topics.

I will make this suggestion again when I review some of the tilers I'm less familiar with, because I know there are people here with lots more experience than I have. If they can start how-to topics I think it would be great.

Now for today's review...

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-14 13:43:04)


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#238 2012-03-14 13:32:05

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Day 10. Just one more minimal stacking window manager, I promise, before we start the tilers with scrotwm tomorrow.

Today we look at aewm -- "an exiguous window manager." Exiguous, from the Latin for measured: exiguus or exigere: to weigh, means in English "extremely meager, or scanty." Fitting name. From the man page:

aewm is an X11 window manager with very few features. It draws a small titlebar above top-level windows, allows you to manipulate them with the mouse, and starts other programs when the root window is clicked. That’s also about all it does, so don’t expect anything nifty.

Aewm is in the repos, and it creates its own .desktop file. Aewm as it comes in the Debian repo is actually a three-part set: the window manager, a root-window menu manager, and a panel. Starting aewm starts the window manager and the menu manager, but the panel must be started in a start-up script. I'll talk a little about the default behavior first, and then how we can modify it with some startup options. Login from GDM and there's our friend the black screen. Left mouse-click gives you the familiar Debian menu:

2012_03_12_181022_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

If you have a three-button mouse (or a scroll wheel), clicking the center button starts a terminal, but here's where we get into a little trouble. The center button is also used to move and resize the window. Click the middle button on the titlebar and drag to move the window, and middle-click on the right end of the titlebar (what almost looks like a button) allows you to resize the window by dragging inside the window to the edge you want to move and extending it. Left click on the titlebar (not in the "button" area) brings the window to the top of the stack. Right clicking on the titlebar sends the window to the back. Clicking the left mouse button on the titlebar "button" minimizes the window. Minimized and visible windows show up on a menu when you click the right mouse button, and you can use this menu to return minimized windows to their original size or to bring windows to the top of the stack.

2012_03_13_133237_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

Clicking the right mouse button on the titlebar button closes the window. There is no maximize function, and there are no keyboard shortcuts for window control. Window focus is "sloppy" -- moving the mouse pointer into a window gives the window focus but does not bring it to the top of the stack.

To exit and log out, you have to kill the window manager ("pkill aewm") or kill X ("sudo pkill X").

Configuration

Aewm uses some text files for configuration. The system defaults are in /etc/X11/aewm, or if aewm finds copies in ~/.aewm it will use those. Copy the defaults to your ~/.aewm folder before editing them.

The aemwrc file controls titlebar font, window foreground, background, and border color, border width and title text padding, and mouse button behavior. Window focus mode cannot be changed. These values can also be set from the command line, and a command-line option can set the name and location of the aemwrc file. We can use this file to set the mouse buttons to more what we're used to, with the right button starting the root menu and left button starting the window-list menu:

button3 "aemenu"
button1 "aemenu --switch"

The clientsrc file controls the root window menu. This is a text file similar to other window manager menu files, and uses the format

cmd "description" "command"

Like this:

cmd terminal sakura
cmd web iceweasel
cmd files thunar
cmd editor geany
menu others
   cmd luakit luakit
   cmd viewnior viewnior
   cmd vlc vlc
end

Changes made to the clientsrc file take effect immediately.

There is a third file in /etc/X11/aewm: menudefs.hook. This is the auto-generated "Debian" menu and it can be used, modified, or deleted. It is included in the default menu definition file (clientsrc).

Because there are no keyboard shortcuts, I think it is useful to run xbindkeys with aewm. I covered this in the last review so I will not discuss it again here. I also think it's useful to have a panel for this one, so we'll start aepanel with aewm. Nitrogen works, but conky does not work well (it runs, but won't stay behind other windows)

(edit update) conky works if you set own_window to "no" and own_window_type to "override" -- thanks packrat.

Here's the startup script:

#!/bin/bash

xbindkeys &
nitrogen --restore &
aepanel &
aewm -bd 'Dark Gray'

And here's what it looks like with the panel running:

2012_03_13_134049_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

Can you tell I don't really use menus? And if aewm reminds you of windowlab, it's because windowlab was based on aewm.

What I Like About It

I like its name. I like the default color scheme and font, and the minimalist rectangular windows and square button.

What I Don't Like About It

It really wants a three-button mouse. I tried using xmodmap to move the middle button to the right, but that produced unwanted behavior in a lot of apps. I can use aewm on my test machine with a wired mouse, but it does not work well with my wireless mouse (I can only move or resize the window for a fraction of a second). It's not a light as some of the other minimal managers I tried.

Links

"man aewm"
aewm home page

back to the top

Day 11 -- scrotwm

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-15 17:46:56)


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#239 2012-03-14 13:48:12

rhowaldt
#!*$%:)
Registered: 2011-03-09
Posts: 4,396

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

hey, aewm looks nice! actually a WM with a default design which i don't immediately loathe! cool smile

*big applause for Many Doggy Dogg*

Offline

#240 2012-03-14 13:49:31

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ agreed -- I didn't change much in the default configuration.


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#241 2012-03-14 13:58:35

tartan
#! Junkie
From: Moscow
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 314

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

That's getting more and more interesting!

We should put it to the wiki when you're done with it or in your blog or anywhere for everyone to see the whole story! If nothing else, I can throw together some static pages and host them at 'termendous' server. In fact, I'd be honored to.

P.S. Ask Thomas Adam or me for help if you get stuck with fvwm, Thomas for best practices and me for showing off. smile

Last edited by tartan (2012-03-14 19:22:16)

Offline

#242 2012-03-14 15:49:33

tenkainen
Member
From: Tampere, Finland
Registered: 2011-08-16
Posts: 30

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

2ManyDogs wrote:

Day 10....
but conky does not work well (it runs, but won't stay behind other windows)

Did you try changing the own_window_type in the conkyrc? I had some trouble with Wmfs ja some other wm, but override seemed to do the trick...

Offline

#243 2012-03-14 16:56:22

h8uthemost
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-08-09
Posts: 296

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

2ManyDogs wrote:

I also have a suggestion -- if you try one of these WMs, or if you have experience with one of them, please start a "Getting Started with <wm>" topic.

That's a good idea since I'm really becoming a ratpoison fan, and we don't have much info on this WM here on the forums. Unfortunately... Maybe after I play with rp for a while more and do a little more to it(although there's not much that can be done to it, from what I can see) I'll start a thread. There's quite a few questions I have for the wm, but I'm not sure how many people here use it.

And once again, nice review. These should definitely be added to wiki. Arch has the best damn wiki out there and it would be nice if #! could compete at least a little. Your WM reviews would make the #! wiki so much more informative. Afterall you're not just telling about the WM itself, you're giving info on the configuration as well.

Like many others here I'm looking forward to your tiler reviews. Hopefully you stumble upon one like rp(incredibly minimal and light), but doesn't use the c-t/emacs type of format.

Thanks for all your work, 2many...


We are a nice, friendly community here and I hope we stay that way.

Offline

#244 2012-03-14 17:04:54

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: #! Fringe Division
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,163
Website

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Added 30WMi30D to Quick References


VSIDO | SolusOS

Words That Build Or Destroy

Offline

#245 2012-03-14 17:54:53

Iranon
#! Junkie
Registered: 2012-03-10
Posts: 254

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

I'm also following this with interest, and stuff to tempt me is yet to come. I have little use for minimalism, what I want is power and control accessible through idiot-readable but open-ended configuration files.

Having little configurability in the first place?
Hunt through endless wizards for a checkbox that doesn't exist?
Modify obvious config files, to find out that's as ignored as the user by layers of abstraction?
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
And that good-intentioned designers remove perfectly good choices for the supposed benefit of the users just shows the violence inherent in the system.


LEGO won't be ready for the average user until it comes pre-assembled, in a single  unified look, and glued together so it doesn't come apart.

Offline

#246 2012-03-14 19:20:43

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

tenkainen wrote:

Did you try changing the own_window_type in the conkyrc? I had some trouble with Wmfs ja some other wm, but override seemed to do the trick...

Thanks for the suggestion. I just went and tried changing this -- I was using "desktop" which has always worked well in other window managers, and I tried changing it to "override" which made the window stop showing up on the panel (better) but it still won't stay in the background:

2012_03_14_122943_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

The other options don't work at all. I'm not really surprised at this, it's the same behavior I saw in WindowLab, and WL is supposed to be based on aewm. Here's what the conky reference says about own_window_type:

Desktop windows are special windows that have no window decorations; are always visible on your desktop; do not appear in your pager or taskbar; and are sticky across all workspaces. Panel windows reserve space along a desktop edge, just like panels and taskbars, preventing maximized windows from overlapping them. The edge is chosen based on the alignment option. Override windows are not under the control of the window manager. Hints are ignored. This type of window can be useful for certain situations.

You'd think either "deaktop" or "override" would work, but not in aewm or WindowLab.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-14 19:34:25)


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#247 2012-03-14 19:23:24

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Iranon wrote:

I'm also following this with interest, and stuff to tempt me is yet to come. I have little use for minimalism, what I want is power and control accessible through idiot-readable but open-ended configuration files.

Do you know of any window managers that meet these criteria? I think pekwm comes as close as any I've seen so far. Lots of options, all controlled by text files (and graphics for icons and window elements). Fluxbox and blackbox come pretty close too.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-14 19:25:50)


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#248 2012-03-14 19:37:40

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

h8uthemost wrote:
2ManyDogs wrote:

I also have a suggestion -- if you try one of these WMs, or if you have experience with one of them, please start a "Getting Started with <wm>" topic.

That's a good idea since I'm really becoming a ratpoison fan, and we don't have much info on this WM here on the forums. Unfortunately... Maybe after I play with rp for a while more and do a little more to it(although there's not much that can be done to it, from what I can see) I'll start a thread. There's quite a few questions I have for the wm, but I'm not sure how many people here use it.

If you've been using it for more than a day, you already know more than I do smile My "vision" for the separate topics is not so much a place for people to show off their knowledge, but more a place for users of a particular WM to Q&A and where people will be able to easily find information about a particular WM. Wait until I get to ratpoison (and you will know even more then) and you can start the topic after the review. I'll be counting on it wink

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-14 19:42:15)


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

#249 2012-03-14 20:20:44

PackRat
#! Die Hard
From: USA
Registered: 2011-03-03
Posts: 1,262

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

2ManyDogs wrote:
tenkainen wrote:

Did you try changing the own_window_type in the conkyrc? I had some trouble with Wmfs ja some other wm, but override seemed to do the trick...

Thanks for the suggestion. I just went and tried changing this -- I was using "desktop" which has always worked well in other window managers, and I tried changing it to "override" which made the window stop showing up on the panel (better) but it still won't stay in the background:

<snip>

The other options don't work at all. I'm not really surprised at this, it's the same behavior I saw in WindowLab, and WL is supposed to be based on aewm. Here's what the conky reference says about own_window_type:

Desktop windows are special windows that have no window decorations; are always visible on your desktop; do not appear in your pager or taskbar; and are sticky across all workspaces. Panel windows reserve space along a desktop edge, just like panels and taskbars, preventing maximized windows from overlapping them. The edge is chosen based on the alignment option. Override windows are not under the control of the window manager. Hints are ignored. This type of window can be useful for certain situations.

You'd think either "deaktop" or "override" would work, but not in aewm or WindowLab.

Try:

own_window no

on your system; or pipe conky through dzen2 (see attached)

aaz6YJF2.jpg

aewm++ adds some functionality/features - I think virtual desktops is one of them.


"It does not require many words to speak the truth." - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce tribe

Offline

Help fund CrunchBang, donate to the project!

#250 2012-03-14 20:31:41

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Thanks! And that works with WindowLab too. I updated the reviews for both WMs.

aewm has virtual desktops through "aedesk" but I didn't really do much with it. I tried aewm++ but it had some bugs I didn't like (but don't remember now -- they're all a little blurry hmm )

See, now I'm going to make you start the "Getting Started with aewm" thread smile

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-14 20:39:12)


Be eggsalad to each other.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB

Copyright © 2012 CrunchBang Linux.
Proudly powered by Debian. Hosted by Linode.
Debian is a registered trademark of Software in the Public Interest, Inc.

Debian Logo