30 Window Managers in 30 days

dubois · 2012-03-10 13:27:59

Mister Dog -- you do realize that you're a Legend in the Making as of this moment? big_smile

EDIT -- 100 replies, 2507 views

Last edited by dubois (2012-03-10 13:29:09)

ivanovnegro · 2012-03-10 14:00:22

^ +100.

Looking forward for more. smile

cJones · 2012-03-10 17:53:17

rhowaldt wrote:

^ synaptic is bloat. sudo apt-get remove fluxbox (etc).

Thank you

2ManyDogs wrote:

The long answer is that if you are really interested in playing with this stuff (and you haven't done this already) you might consider looking for an old Pentium or even Celeron box just for experimenting. Then you can put anything you want on it, add other distros, and experiment with all kinds of things (like upgrades to sid or crazy window managers) without worrying about breaking your important stuff. I've tried things I never would have done on my main machine, and learned a lot in the process (I now know you can fit at least three distros on a 40G drive )

Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately...and I do have an old computer that I would like to try that on but it needs a power supply and a hard drive. And even if I get those for it I am not sure what kind of shape the rest of the hardware is in.

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 18:04:02

^ I bought my Celeron box for $30 at a used computer store here, and I've seen them for almost as little on Craigslist. 40G IDE hard drive are $5 at the FreeGeek store here. think you said were in school in Corvallis? I'm in the Portland area so you should be able to find similar deals there. Of course, if you're a starving college student... hmm

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-10 18:04:41)

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 18:06:05

Today we're looking at an old but still very good window manager: twm. Acocording to wikipedia, TWM was wrtten in 1987 by Tom LaStrange, and "TWM" originally stood for Tom's Window Manager. The name was later changed to Tab Window Manager and now it supposedly stands for Timeless Window Manager. All I can say is that any window manager that predates my first software job is old...

TWM is in the Debian repos, and it creates a .desktop file, so it works with your login manager. Log in and you're faced with the dreaded black screen; right click gets you... nothing. You have to left-click to get the menu you're looking for, with its now-familiar "Debian" option:

Middle-click gets you a window menu, with options for moving and resizing windows:

Don't worry, the mouse behavior is easy to change. In fact it's so easy that I'm going to recommend that you change it even before you start the window manager; more on that later.

Start up a window or two from the Debian menu, and you see some interesting differences right away. When you first open a window, you get an empty three-by-three grid with the mouse pointer attached to the top left corner. You can move the grid until it's where you want the new window, and when you left click the application appears. I tried to get a screenshot of this, but while the grid is up no other windows run, so scrot doesn't work. It's kind of weird, but strangely interesting (like most of TWM's quirks). If you really hate it, you can change this behavior in the configuration file.

The next thing you notice is that the window only has two buttons; the left button "iconifies" the window (reduces the window to an icon on the desktop) and the right button allows you to resize the window.

The resize button is a little weird too -- you left-click the button and then move to whatever side of the window you want to grow or shrink while still holding the button down, then move and resize. It's a little hard to describe, but not hard to get used to. To move the window you left-click and drag the title bar. As you move or resize the window it briefly changes back to the 3x3 empty grid.

Left click on the titlebar brings the window to the top of the stack and right click sends it to the bottom. If you want to get rid of the window you have to close the running application, or use the window menu. When you start the window menu and select an option, the mouse pointer changes and you then click the window you want to change. Again, a little hard to describe but easy to understand when you try it. After I set up my keybindings I almost never needed to use the window menu; again; more on that later.

TWM also has a built-in "icon manager" -- kind of like a taskbar; when it's turned on, all open windows are listed in the manager. You can click on the manager to iconify or raise any running app. It defaults to the upper left corner of the screen:

Configuration

TWM keeps all of its configuration information in one file. It uses the default startup file in /etc/X11/twm/system.twmrc unless it finds a file in ~/.twmrc. To change the default configuration, you copy the default system file to your home folder (and change the name from system.tmwrc to just .twmrc) and then modify the local version.

Here's where I think you should modify the config file even before you start TWM. After you've installed the window manager, do this:

cp /etc/X11/twm/system.twmrc ~/.twmrc
geany ~/.twmrc

(of course you can use your favorite editor). Find this section:

Button1 = root : f.menu "main"
Button2 = root : f.menu "windowops"

and change the button bindings:

Button3 = root : f.menu "main"
Button1 = root : f.menu "windowops"

Save the file. Now right click starts the main menu, and left click starts the window-control menu. That's better...

All the fonts and all the colors are in the .twmrc file. Font definitions are in xfont style:

TitleFont "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*"
ResizeFont "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*"
MenuFont "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-*-*"
IconFont "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-100-*-*-*-*-*-*"
IconManagerFont "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-100-*-*-*"

So you can use xfontsel to get the correct entries when you want to change them. Colors are coded like this (this is just part of what can be changed in .twmrc):

Color
{
    BorderColor "slategrey"
    DefaultBackground "rgb:2/a/9"
    DefaultForeground "gray85"

All the mouse and key bindings are also controlled by settings in this one file, and the best way to learn about all the options is to simply read the man page. It's all in there.

I changed a few mouse bindings (I added super+left click in a window to bring it to the top of the stack so I don't always have to click on the titlebar, plus some additional move and resize options) and I added a bunch of key bindings to cycle through the stack and start my favorite apps and dmenu. I also edited the menu to make it more like the menu in my other window managers, but honestly the more I use keybindings the less I use the main menu, and it's so easy to add custom keybindings to TWM that I really didn't put much work into the menu beyond figuring out how to change it. Configuration changes take effect as soon as you restart the window manager, so I made it easier to restart from both the menu and from a keybind.

TWM doesn't play nicely with tint2 or fbpanel (or they don't play well with TWM, you decide) but conky and nitrogen work fine. I played with using the icon manager as a horizontal panel, and it works:

but then I decided I didn't really need a panel.

Here's what I ended up with this morning:

You can see some of my configuration changes in the open .twmrc file in the screen shot. One thing you might not notice if I don't point it out is that the terminal I'm running to take the scrot has the focus (see it highlighted in the icon manager)? but it's at the bottom of the stack -- I put it there on purpose and could still type the scrot command.

TWM does not have a built in startup mechanism, so you will have to modify twm.desktop and create a start script if you want to start conky and set the background when twm starts up. Go back and read the flwm topic if you need to see how to do this.

What I Like About It

It's small and fast. It only used around 100 MB of memory even with iceweasel and geany running. It's different. It's very easy to reconfigure and the options are easy to understand (I read the section on grouping in the pekwm wiki several times and I still don't get it). It does everything I need it to do and not much I don't care about.

What I Don't Like About It

Not much. I still haven't figured out how to move the focus to a window when it's first opened if I'm using the option to have windows open anywhere (not the grid-drag method) so if I open sakura with a key bind I still have to go drag the mouse into the window before I can type in it. This is a minor annoyance though, since I usually use the grid-drag method and this ensures that the newly opened window has the focus. I'm not very good with fonts yet, so I had a hard time getting everthing right. I'm sure someone else could do a much better job with the config.

Links

"man twm" really. If you must, "man twm >twm.man" then "geany twm.man"
"cat /usr/X11/twm/system.twmrc | more" or "nano /usr/X11/twm/system.twmrc"
twm in the Arch wiki
twm in wikipedia
google (or ixquick, or duckduckgo, or whatever) "twm configuration"

Tomorrow, just for Sunday, the evilwm. Why am I not surprised that gutterslob is very familiar with evilwm? smile

back to the top

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-12 00:57:46)

gensym · 2012-03-10 18:14:40

Nice work! I am looking forward for tommorrows coverage.

CBizgreat! · 2012-03-10 18:45:27

Always knew 2Many was going to be famous in the #! forum and gnu/Linux crowd. Never doubted it for a sec. smile

This latest one looks interesting too, dang it ! Am starting to get a bit worried that before this WM review proj is over, am going to end up with half a dozen window manangers installed ... yikes. tongue The brief summary of things you/2Many discover, which config files are most important and changes you felt needed to make em more useable help though. Hmmmm ... starting to look like it's TWM tryout time too ... sighs.

vll ! wink

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2012-03-10 18:45:44)

BoredOOMM · 2012-03-10 18:47:04

cJones wrote:

rhowaldt wrote:
^ synaptic is bloat. sudo apt-get remove fluxbox (etc).
Thank you
2ManyDogs wrote:
The long answer is that if you are really interested in playing with this stuff (and you haven't done this already) you might consider looking for an old Pentium or even Celeron box just for experimenting. Then you can put anything you want on it, add other distros, and experiment with all kinds of things (like upgrades to sid or crazy window managers) without worrying about breaking your important stuff. I've tried things I never would have done on my main machine, and learned a lot in the process (I now know you can fit at least three distros on a 40G drive )
Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately...and I do have an old computer that I would like to try that on but it needs a power supply and a hard drive. And even if I get those for it I am not sure what kind of shape the rest of the hardware is in.

Linux is hotswappable. Install on an extra drive, after you are done simply shutdown and pull it out of the box. I have a 12.5 GB drive from a dead system here that I use for testing. wink

I also removed all but ONE box from my garage when I moved in May. SWMBO complaints much less....

BoredOOMM · 2012-03-10 18:48:51

CBizgreat! wrote:

Always knew 2Many was going to be famous in the #! forum and gnu/Linux crowd. Never doubted it for a sec.

This latest one looks interesting too, dang it ! Am starting to get a bit worried that before this WM review proj is over, am going to end up with half a dozen window manangers installed ... yikes. The brief summary of things you/2Many discover, which config files are most important and changes you felt needed to make em more useable help though. Hmmmm ... starting to look like it's TWM tryout time too ... sighs.

vll !

It would be nice to have links to each of the 30 WM posts in this thread and that set in the howto. Perhaps someone can keep a running tally who has the time. Sadly I am working again with no time to play like I did.

CBizgreat! · 2012-03-10 19:08:14

^ Don't be sad about working, imo time on hands is good, too much time on handz is awful. Trying to get a bizness started meself here. Screwing with all the FOSS and opensource of the world is a virtual n perpetual bottomless pit of distraction and time dump anyway. Guessing somebody could spend a lifetime messing with it all and quietly die with very lil productive having actually been accomplished.

They'll have some kickbutt, uber tweaked gnu/nix software though. tongue

This one ... (TWM) looks different, could take some time getting used to. But don't doubt it has potential to work well for whoever wants to set it up their way. Haven't really had the time to mess with it yet, like that it's one tiny package to install and always prefer these wm's who are "well behaved" as 2Many describes and get along well with gdm/etc. Figuring out what to add to xsessions, let alone actually having to compile a wm, imo PITA ... Mark me down as entirely too lazy to go through all that. Choose to stick to the 429 other wm's out there, who behave in a more civilized manner. big_smile

Dang it 2Many am already up to 3 wm's installed ! Arghhhhhh ... iz kinda fun tho. Vll ! wink

rhowaldt · 2012-03-10 19:30:15

2ManyDogs wrote:

"man twm" really. If you must, "man twm >twm.man" then "geany twm.man"

man twm | less -X

smile
great review again (i keep repeating myself..), definitely an interesting WM. what i'm curious about is the looks. it's not very pretty, imo. is it possible to change the icons in the titlebar, for example? that stuff reminds me of xclock and its ugly brothers...

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 19:47:03

Yes, it is possible to change the icons. I saw a .twmrc that did that on my trip through the interweb, but I can't find it right now (I'm too busy working on evilwm). And I agree the default is pretty ugly. Its defaults look like xclock and its ugly brothers because it is one of xclock's ugly brothers. You want pretty you'll have to get some bloat like Xfce or E17. smile

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-10 19:49:09)

CBizgreat! · 2012-03-10 20:53:23

Interesting proj you've got going 2Many, decided TWM is too much work for me atm. Going back to two and will be lurking this topic, waiting to see which others you tryout and ones ya wind up really liking. Am sure others in your wm adventures will wind up getting installed and tried here too. wink

Vll !

gutterslob · 2012-03-10 20:57:39

rhowaldt wrote:

great review again (i keep repeating myself..), definitely an interesting WM. what i'm curious about is the looks. it's not very pretty, imo.

Stock Twm has always been butt ugly, but keep your aesthetic sensibilities pointed towards something two/tri-tone or monochromatic and it can look pretty good. Most recent example would be aaro's scrot

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 20:58:47

^ thanks for the support CB; I know there are a lot of lurkers out there reading but not responding (at least I hope there are smile ) -- you might like evilwm tomorrow, or might not -- it' minimal but very configurable, right up my street -- I love it so far.

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 21:01:32

^^ thanks slob-san; -- that's the scrot that turned me on to twm in the first place, but I was too lazy/busy to find it. Any of these WMs can be awesome if you spend some time getting know them... And that's what I mean -- I'm no artist, but I've seen some beautiful scrots. I just hope I can get people to branch out a little -- and move out of their comfort zone; it's so easy to install and play with these WMs; I'm addicted...

Hope you like evilwm tomorrow -- I love it today...

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-10 21:10:20)

gutterslob · 2012-03-10 21:04:02

Aaro had some pretty awesome twm setups. This one was my fave of his: http://ompldr.org/vYjVnaw

Some of his configs:
http://crunchbanglinux.org/pastebin/1288
http://crunchbanglinux.org/pastebin/1340

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 21:16:38

^ thanks again.

h8uthemost · 2012-03-10 21:16:47

gensym wrote:

^^ Ratpoison is imo still relevant. Easier to configure, works better with xcompmgr, faster startup time and etc.
(But you lose the lisp addons, which is a huge downer once you got used to them in stumpwm).

That's good to know. I won't even bother with stumpwm then(i didn't even know it was supposed to be similar to ratpoison). I'm completely happy with rp.

Great topic 2ManyDogs, I'm sure there will be quite a few WM's I'll check out because of you.

*eagerly awaits your next review*

Welp, looks you already posted one. Very nice. Looking forward to this evilwm though. Never even heard of it.

Last edited by h8uthemost (2012-03-10 21:17:39)

rhowaldt · 2012-03-10 21:18:16

@Dog: if i want pretty i'll go with bloat like Openbox with the Shiki-Statler theme big_smile
thanks for explaining that it is possible to change the icons. i can definitely see what @slob is talking about with aaro's scrot. the colors work great. if only he changed the icons... smile

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 21:20:48

^ thanks h8. that's all I can hope for. And what does "relevant" even mean in a world that runs WMs written in 1987? Like I said in a previous post: "there's a butt for every seat" -- and as CB alwasy says "VLL"!

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 21:23:54

^ rhofur: it's all in the eye of the beholder. I think the default debian fluxbox theme is ugly; CB likes it. It's awesome that we have these options, and that's what I'm trying to celebrate for the next 24 days (OMG, who signed me up for this?) ... I might need more of the lurkers to at least tell me they're lurking (100 replies responses, 2507 views? WTF?)

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-10 21:28:20)

damo · 2012-03-10 21:45:54

2ManyDogs wrote:

I think the default debian fluxbox theme is ugly; CB likes it. It's awesome that we have these options, and that's what I'm trying to celebrate for the next 24 days (OMG, who signed me up for this?) ... I might need more of the lurkers to at least tell me they're lurking (100 replies responses, 2507 views? WTF?)

Cooeee, over here, lurking [waves]. Despite myself I've been drawn to your journey through the windows - the reason being that I'm easily distracted down a new path if something sparks my interest and end up leaving other enthusiasms unfinished.

Like... I've just got back to a graphics project and uploaded a wip to deviantart, then saw an Openbox theme there and got one of mine together and sent it off. Then I thought, what about my Fluxbox stuff. Then I thought it'd be good to try out another WM and spend hours tweaking and themeing and googling. Then I thought 2ManyDogs is a bad influence and I'll never get the project finished.....

Great stuff to watch and lurk though

big_smile

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 21:46:29

Seriously? Everyone has better things to do on Saturday?

2ManyDogs · 2012-03-10 21:57:07

All righty then...

CrunchBang Linux

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