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#26 2012-03-06 21:19:30

Forthy
#! CrunchBanger
From: Warwickshire, UK
Registered: 2012-01-16
Posts: 183

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Dunno whether it's worth mentioning here - but I'm using slim, and am using a cunning way to switch between openbox and scrotwm at the mo...

I set up two user accounts, both mine, and both with the same password (so I don't get confused), but a different username.  The first one I left as the standard openbox as it came when I installed #! , the second, I edited /home/user/.xsession to start scrotwm.

So I login as 'Marc' I get openbox, I log in as 'forthy' I get scrotwm.  Simples smile

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#27 2012-03-06 21:22:02

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,505

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

This is definitely better than watching TV.

+1 ... though leaves much room. Almost anything is better than watching the stoopid box. lol Could quite possibly be successfully argued that hitting ourselves in the foot with a hammer is better than watching Tv. wink Awesome window manager has become my WM of choice atm, good thread on the topic in these forums too. Not sure if it's quite awesome out of the box, think has potential to be though.

Hey ... if 2Many has the time and interest to devote to playing with a ton of diff WM's, then all for it. He's bound to learn alot working hiz way through them imo, at least hope so either way. smile

Last edited by CBizgreat! (2012-03-06 21:23:12)


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#28 2012-03-06 21:27:49

VastOne
#! Ranger
From: #! Fringe Division
Registered: 2011-04-26
Posts: 10,163
Website

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

This is an epic journey you are on 2ManyDogs...

Glad to see it and follow...

Well done Dog!


VSIDO | SolusOS

Words That Build Or Destroy

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#29 2012-03-06 21:36:13

CBizgreat!
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2011-07-27
Posts: 1,505

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ +1 too ...


Forgot to mention, I might learn summin from hiz adventures through all the Wm's too. Which is great ... don't mind trying to share what I learn along the way, is great when able to learn something from someone else's gnu/nix exploits too. Am certainly interested in 2Many's findings on which wm's he tries n likes and why. Think iz one of the many great things about #!, the community of people here and gnu/Linux the world over for that matter. Hoping 2Many has a great time and learns alot that serves to enrich him n others along the way, If it's something he feels like pursuing that is.


vll ! smile


Some common cbiz abbreviations. This will save me time and yet @ same time tell folks what the babble is supposed to mean.

Vll ! = ( Viva la gnu/Linux !)    Vl#!! = ( Viva la #! !)    Last but not least, UD ... OD ! = ( Use Debian ... or die !) tongue

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#30 2012-03-06 22:19:42

anticapitalista
#! Member
Registered: 2010-08-03
Posts: 92

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

So what are the 30 wms (actually the other 28)?

openbox, jwm, flwm, fluxbox, icewm, fvwm, pekwm, e17, Window Maker, evilwm, blackbox, AfterStep, dwm, wmii, scrotwm, stumpwm, ratpoison, awesome, xmonad, Oroborus.

That's 20. What will the other 10 be?

Great project!

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#31 2012-03-06 22:30:33

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Pretty good guesses (and thanks for the suggestions!) I don't have a list yet. flwm tomorrow, fluxbox on Thursday, probably pekwm/icewm on Friday/Saturday, but there are a lot more tilers than you mentioned -- catwm, snapwm, dminiwm, monsterwm, I3, herbstluftwm, wmfs2; wait a minute, maybe I don't have 30 hmm Does tmux count (imagine me looking thoughtful like my avatar)?

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-06 22:32:57)


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#32 2012-03-06 22:40:02

rhowaldt
#!*$%:)
Registered: 2011-03-09
Posts: 4,396

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ you can use tmux as a WM, so it counts for me.

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#33 2012-03-06 22:49:44

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Or the byobu "layer" on top of tmux.

There's also ion3 and i3 and the definitive list here which we probably all know about. And Wikipedia's list here.

And "aewm" which I've never heard of mentioned here.


Support #!Waldorf • Debian sid • Xubuntu • siduction • Peppermint • OpenBox • Xfce • LXDE •

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#34 2012-03-06 23:21:32

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Thanks SWolfy (my new nickname for you -- say it three times fast smile ) I forgot about echinus and subtle, and I know there's at least 30 out there...

and I had never heard of aewm, but it's actually in the repo (I love Debian) and sounds intriguing:

aewm is a modern, minimal window manager for X11. It is controlled entirely with the mouse, but contains no visible UI apart from window frames. The command set is sort of like vi: designed back in the dawn of time (1997) to squeeze speed out of low-memory machines, completely unintuitive and new-user-hostile, but quick and elegant in its own way

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-07 01:03:44)


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#35 2012-03-07 01:07:34

cJones
#! Junkie
From: Oregon
Registered: 2012-02-21
Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

This was an awesome idea 2Many! I am really looking forward to your future posts. I haven't left openbox sense installing #! so it will be interesting to see what else there is
Edit: Subscribed!

Last edited by cJones (2012-03-07 01:07:54)


d(o_O)b

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#36 2012-03-07 06:47:27

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

@2ManyDogs: aewm sounds bizarre and self-aware and intriguing. Great idea to work through 30 of these window managers. I'm sure you (and all of us) will learn a lot and this will be an awesome resource!

SWolfy smile

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-03-07 06:47:56)


Support #!Waldorf • Debian sid • Xubuntu • siduction • Peppermint • OpenBox • Xfce • LXDE •

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#37 2012-03-07 10:34:19

gensym
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-10-17
Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Just in case you need more suggestions: cwm, twm, ctwm, larswm, amiwm,windowmaker/afterstep


'Multiple exclamation marks,' he went on, shaking his head, 'are a sure sign of a diseased mind.', {Eric}

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#38 2012-03-07 10:39:40

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Good grief, how many ARE there!? yikes


Support #!Waldorf • Debian sid • Xubuntu • siduction • Peppermint • OpenBox • Xfce • LXDE •

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#39 2012-03-07 10:41:05

gensym
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-10-17
Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ The rumor has it that that all the different WMs out in the wild outnumber us linux users tongue


'Multiple exclamation marks,' he went on, shaking his head, 'are a sure sign of a diseased mind.', {Eric}

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#40 2012-03-07 11:04:28

kri5
#! Die Hard
From: L.G.C. UK
Registered: 2011-11-10
Posts: 568

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

@2ManyDogs..  Great post, have seen 'scrotwm' and 'awesome' mentioned frequently and have been interested but not brave enough to try myself.  Look forward to the following the rest of you journey. big_smile


#! Waldorf - 64bit - Xfce

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#41 2012-03-07 11:04:30

SabreWolfy
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-03-09
Posts: 1,285

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

gensym wrote:

^ The rumor has it that that all the different WMs out in the wild outnumber us linux users tongue

Ooooh! That means more than one WM each smile

Last edited by SabreWolfy (2012-03-07 11:05:44)


Support #!Waldorf • Debian sid • Xubuntu • siduction • Peppermint • OpenBox • Xfce • LXDE •

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#42 2012-03-07 12:13:00

saneks
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-10-01
Posts: 999

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

nice project- but one thing: could you possibly create a list of links in the first post that direct to the posts about the managers? With all the comments it'll be a hard time finding stuff in the thread, thanks!


eee701 user & other lap/desktops

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#43 2012-03-07 12:26:21

Athos
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2011-09-28
Posts: 108

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Awesome! I'm going to subscribe this!!!!

Looking foward to see i3 and scrotwm

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#44 2012-03-07 14:10:55

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

saneks wrote:

nice project- but one thing: could you possibly create a list of links in the first post that direct to the posts about the managers? With all the comments it'll be a hard time finding stuff in the thread, thanks!

Done. I was planning to do this; thanks for the reminder. I will also link from one WM directly to the next, so you can read the thread chronologically without having to bounce back to the top.


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#45 2012-03-07 14:40:34

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

Day Three. The epic journey continues. The natives have begun to accept me and offer me their food.

Today we will look at the Fast Light Window Manager, or flwm. It's in the repos, so again "apt-get install flwm" works fine. Flwm does not create a .desktop file, so you will need to create one:

cd /usr/share/xsessions
sudo nano flwm.desktop

Here's the simplest version:

[Desktop Entry]
Name=flwm
Type=Application
Exec=/usr/bin/flwm

Save it, then log out and log back in; flwm should show up in the "sessions" in GDM or LightDM.

What It Looks Like

When you first start flwm, you get a black screen. Left or right click and you get a small menu, with the now-familiar "Debian" option:

2012_03_06_101028_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

Notice that there is no "shut down" option in the menu, only logout. If you want to shut down, you have to log out and shut down from the login manager, or type "sudo shutdown -h now" in a terminal. You can always add a shutdown option to the menu later if you really need one.

Open a few apps and it looks like this:

2012_03_06_101221_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

Here's where you see one of the distinctive features of flwm. Its window title bars are sideways. This minimizes the amount of vertical real-estate each window uses, and it makes sense when most people have monitors that are much wider than they are tall. The title bars also have some unfamiliar buttons -- those tiny rectangles at the top of the title bar expand or contract the window in the horizontal or vertical directions, like the "grow to edge" keybindings in #!.

The "X" at the bottom of the titlebar does what you'd expect: it kills the window. At the top of the titlebar after the "grow" buttons are a window shade button (this reduces the window to a vertical title bar, and it looks like a minimize button, but that's the next one up). When you click on the "grow" buttons the mouse pointer stays on them even if the window resize moves the button. This makes it easy to undo the resize (by simply clicking the button again) or to maximize in the other direction.

Another thing flwm does very differently is that clicking on a window gives the window focus, but does not bring it to the top of the window stack. You can click on a terminal under the file manager (for example) and use the terminal, but until you click on the title bar the terminal will not come to the top of the stack.

You don't get much for key bindings. You can use Ctrl-F<N> to switch between desktops, or Alt-Tab to bring up the desktop menu and/or change to another window (even when a window has the focus), but there are no keybindings for resizing or moving windows, although there are bindings for raise (Alt-Up), lower (Alt-Down), close (Alt-Delete), and minimize (Alt-Enter). If you want anything else you will have to modify the source code and rebuild.

Configuring

You don't "configure" flwm as much as set up its desktop and menu. Without recompiling from source you can't change the color, size, or font in the window title bar, and you can't change the buttons on the title bar. If you build the tiny-core version from the Arch AUR the title bars are smaller and black, but if you want anything else you have to get into the code and modify it yourself. You can use nitrogen or feh to set the wallpaper like any other WM you're used to. Conky works as you'd expect it to, but tint2 and fbpanel don't work properly; tint2 warns that the "WM doesn't respect NETWM specs" and it appears, but none of the running apps show up on the taskbar. Luckily flwm has a sort of "built-in taskbar" on its menu -- running apps show up in the menu and can be selected from there, even if they are minimized.

Flwm doesn't have a built-in autostart feature. If you want to run conky or set the background when flwm starts, you will need to create your own "autostart" script. Gutterslob covered this well in his post about adding entries to GDM, but simply put you just call a script from the .desktop file and let the script call the WM when it's done. So change flwm.desktop to:

[Desktop Entry]
Name=flwm
Type=Application
Exec=/home/user/.config/wmgrs/flwm-start

And put this in /home/user/.config/wmgrs/flwm-start:

#!/bin/bash

#script to start some stuff and then start a window manager

/home/user/.scripts/random-wallpaper &
conky -c /home/user/.config/conky/conkyrc-flwm &

flwm

Save this for later -- we'll use this script again for other WMs that need a little help at startup.

Setting up the menu is also a little different. Flwm replicates a folder structure as its menu. As it comes "out of the box" it uses the files and folders in /var/lib/flwm/wmx. Subfolders of this main folder are submenus on the main menu. At the bottom of the submenu/subfolder structure is an executable file or script or a symlink to an executable file. Here's a "tree" of the default setup:

2012_03_06_114059_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

Compare this tree to the menu and you can see what I mean. Also notice the two "bsh" entries at the top of the menu -- those represent the two running terminals and shows their position on the screen. Minimized apps still show up in the menu, but their position rectangle changes from solid to open. Clicking on a minimized app in the menu returns it to its original position.

When you want to configure the menu for yourself, you just create a .wmx folder in your home folder and put executables, scripts, or symlinks in it. It can be as simple or complex as you want. Here's my default on #! right now, with its .wmx folder tree:

2012_03_06_105410_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

As you can see, some of the menu items are symlinks and one is a scripts to make it easier to pass arguments to the binary. For more information you can also look at how the default menu is set up in /var/lib/flwm/wmx -- all the subentries are scripts, even the ones that simply call an executable.

Flwm arranges the menu in alphabetical order, with anything in the "applications" folder as a sub-menu off the main menu, and it always includes the "New Desktop" and "Logout" options. Running apps always show up at the top of the menu.

Finally, here's what the Arch tiny-core version looks like:

2012_03_07_061425_1280x1024_scrot.jpg

What I Like About It

It's small and fast. It's different. It doesn't come with a lot of extras, and because you can't really change much about how it looks, I don't waste a lot of time configuring its appearance.

What I Don't Like About It

You can't really change much about how it looks. It's kind of ugly. I wish I could arrange the menu in something other than alphabetical order. Requiring a title-bar click to bring the window to the top takes some getting used to.

Links

flwm home page
a review of flwm (and I will freely admit some of this post is taken directly from this review; thank you Giles)
more information, including default key bindings
(this information is also available if you type "man flwm" in a terminal after you install flwm)

Congratulations if you have read this far, and extra points for the first person who can identify this phrase (the old fashioned way; without google or wikipedia): "the room is full of milkmen. some of them are very old."

Tomorrow, fluxbox. I'm planning to work through a bunch of floating (or "stacked") window managers first, then some tilers, then whatever is left over. Suggestions are welcome (although ratpoison will have to wait a while) smile

to the fluxbox review
back to the top

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-03-08 16:25:33)


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#46 2012-03-07 14:51:00

gensym
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-10-17
Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^ Monty Python!


'Multiple exclamation marks,' he went on, shaking his head, 'are a sure sign of a diseased mind.', {Eric}

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#47 2012-03-07 14:54:17

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

gensym wrote:

^ Monty Python!

Well done. Did you cheat, or did you just know?


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#48 2012-03-07 14:56:37

damo
#! gimpbanger
From: N51.5 W002.8 (mostly)
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 3,103

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

^^ same place as "my hovercraft is full of eels"?

Thanks for your efforts - no reason to move from OB so far smile


Artwork at deviantArt;  Iceweasel Personas;  SLiM #! Themes;  Openbox themes

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#49 2012-03-07 15:00:01

gensym
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-10-17
Posts: 447

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

2ManyDogs wrote:
gensym wrote:

^ Monty Python!

Well done. Did you cheat, or did you just know?


I just knew.
Speaking of them:
http://youtu.be/saY10AWXLIY


'Multiple exclamation marks,' he went on, shaking his head, 'are a sure sign of a diseased mind.', {Eric}

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#50 2012-03-07 15:02:39

2ManyDogs
dv#!
From: elsewhere
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 1,346

Re: 30 Window Managers in 30 days

I should have known that a Monty Python quote would not be obscure to this bunch... wink


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