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#1 2011-10-26 08:55:21

ErSandro
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2009-09-19
Posts: 108

BSD impressions

Hi everyone,
After three years using only linux i decided to give a shot to BSD. I already know what BSD is about and the major differences with Linux.

The choice is between FreeBSD and OpenBSD. I unterstand that in this forum there are users of both systems, so I'm asking you about your experiences and the motivations that made you choose one or another.

I know that Open is more security oriented and Free is more supported, and... that's it.

Are they much different? Like Ubuntu/Debian? Or more like Debian/Archlinux?

Thank you very much.

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#2 2011-10-26 10:12:12

aaro
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-11-15
Posts: 648

Re: BSD impressions

FreeBSD and OpenBSD are both great systems.
Differences... well let's see...
OpenBSD is more like a mini system as they achieved to pack a complete system in a less than 250 mb iso. I also think the installation is faster and easier and after installing you get a pretty much usable desktop (you get a nice fvwm desktop). And they have some native packages that are the best you can get in FOSS like cwm, tmux and pf.
FreeBSD is more mainstream, with a much larger iso (dvd image recommended if you don't have a fast connection), and you got to work a little more to get your system ready (for a desktop), you don't get anything customized as in OBSD. That being said, FBSD has one of the most complete binary package collections (repositories) available.

I like them both but maybe as an entrance to BSD i'd choose OpenBSD.


- closed account - gone to better places -

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#3 2011-10-26 11:06:15

Athos
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2011-09-28
Posts: 108

Re: BSD impressions

Hello,

I've never used any of them, but, as far as I can tell, openBSD is totally a security/cryptogaphy BSD distro ( I mean, I think is just got about 4 or 5 vulnerabilities since it was made O_o)...

On the other hand, FreeBSD is a less-hackerish, more user-friendly one, (the FreeBSD handbook is awesome)...

I'd start with FreeBSD. But now...you can just virtualize any of them! big_smile

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#4 2011-10-26 11:36:30

Erinsfan
#! CrunchBanger
From: At a terminal
Registered: 2011-01-28
Posts: 148

Re: BSD impressions

BSD is similar enough to Linux to allow some familiarity but different enought for there to be a steep(-ish) learning curve. I started with SCO and migrated into Linuxland. Like the others, I would recommend virtualisation of FreeBSD first.


Enjoying a good !#

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#5 2011-10-26 11:53:10

ErSandro
#! CrunchBanger
Registered: 2009-09-19
Posts: 108

Re: BSD impressions

Thanks for the advices.

I've got a spare PC (a thinkpad x40) so I'll try to jump directly into "the real deal" skipping the (wise) virtualization step.

For now I'm leaning towards FreeBSD, I like the idea of a large amount of software to choose from and the documentation is really good too.

Still thinking about it, but for this evening I'll make my mind wink

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#6 2011-10-26 12:33:11

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 2,983

Re: BSD impressions

Athos wrote:

Hello,

I've never used any of them, but, as far as I can tell, openBSD is totally a security/cryptogaphy BSD distro ( I mean, I think is just got about 4 or 5 vulnerabilities since it was made O_o)...

If you're referring to remote holes specifically, I think there've only been 2.

If you've used Arch, then you should be comfortable. Arch is afterall Linux trying (and failing) to become BSD. tongue


Point & Squirt

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#7 2011-10-28 00:11:08

CrunchyFree
#! Junkie
From: New Amsterdam, U.S.
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 426

Re: BSD impressions

I'm installing DragonflyBSD, with my Arch and Gentoo experience I should feel right at home.


XFCE User ~ Linux Abuser ~ Rubbish Refuser
[img]http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=First%20Tiling%20WM%20-%2050G[/img]

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#8 2011-10-28 00:16:23

Psyduck9550
#! CrunchBanger
From: Lawton, OK
Registered: 2011-10-14
Posts: 184
Website

Re: BSD impressions

You could also try PC-BSD, it's really good from what I've read, and actually in ways even better than FreeBSD. Specifically in how it has a graphical installer that allows you to choose between FreeBSD and PC-BSD, and just its general usability.

In addition, it's basically FreeBSD that's aimed more towards the desktop than the server, whereas the original FreeBSD is aimed more towards the server.

Last edited by Psyduck9550 (2011-10-28 00:17:55)


My dA. http://dfx4509b.deviantart.com/

I'm pretty much a typical geek. lol

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#9 2011-10-28 00:50:14

dmhdlr
#! Junkie
From: Philadelphia
Registered: 2011-05-09
Posts: 312

Re: BSD impressions

Is it just me or is OpenBSD the coolest BSD?


"Emacs: making you posthuman since 1976"
Axiom #1: Emacs is a text interface prosthesis
Axiom #2: Org-mode gives you super cyborg organizational powers
cf. Why Emacs | Emacs-fu | EmacsWiki | Worg

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#10 2011-10-28 00:51:32

rstrcogburn
CrunchRanger
From: New Mexico
Registered: 2010-06-12
Posts: 1,928
Website

Re: BSD impressions

Chimming in with the rest of you ...

One thing about BSD that is different is that each BSD "OS" has it's on kernel, in contrast to Linux "Distros" that share the same kernel.  This difference contributes to each BSD meeting particular needs.

OpenBSD - Security

FreeBSD - General Usage (kind of the debian)

NetBSD - Portability (ability to run on anything)

DragonFly - SSD and SMP Performance

PC-BSD - Out - of - Box experience (like ubuntu)

They all share common themes though.  A choice of either binary or source based package management, and maybe better security than Linux.  I think this is do to the development process kept in house rather than being organic like Linux.

If anyone is interested in a FreeBSD ZFS install I'd recommend this BSDMAG issue (free download) http://bsdmag.org/magazine/1049-hosting-bsd to learn by getting your hands dirty.  That article started out by @vermaden on the FreeBSD forums install guide and was good enough to be put in the magazine.  The other alternative now is to use PC-BSD to do a base FreeBSD ZFS install as it's "PC-Sysintstall"  backend is the next generation FreeBSD installer and it allows the option of installing FreeBSD only.  I still recommend that magazine pdf though.  It's got an X11 config article that's pretty good too.


That hawk just kept flying! -Ben Lilly

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#11 2011-10-28 01:10:51

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: BSD impressions

replicant wrote:

Is it just me or is OpenBSD the coolest BSD?

That's just because of tmux and stuff, and because Linux called them masturbating monkeys. I think Dragonfly is the coolest, cuz of the name.

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#12 2011-10-28 01:17:11

dmhdlr
#! Junkie
From: Philadelphia
Registered: 2011-05-09
Posts: 312

Re: BSD impressions

What's this about masturbating monkeys?

Edit: I shoulda known. Know-nothing Linus said it. Still the image is strange. I'm sure Linus has weird fetishes though.

Last edited by dmhdlr (2011-10-28 01:42:25)


"Emacs: making you posthuman since 1976"
Axiom #1: Emacs is a text interface prosthesis
Axiom #2: Org-mode gives you super cyborg organizational powers
cf. Why Emacs | Emacs-fu | EmacsWiki | Worg

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#13 2011-10-28 01:34:58

orionthehunter
#! Constellation
From: Japan
Registered: 2011-04-09
Posts: 900
Website

Re: BSD impressions

I tried PC-BSD in a VM and found it quite usable, but no real reason for me to change to it on my real machines.  For me #! or LMDE produces an even more usable system out of the box.  I do like the BSD philosophy though... I'm just not enough of an idealist to commit to minor inconvenience for the sake of ideals.

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#14 2011-10-28 02:41:17

Psyduck9550
#! CrunchBanger
From: Lawton, OK
Registered: 2011-10-14
Posts: 184
Website

Re: BSD impressions

That and it, along with FreeBSD, would be a perfect OS for a main desktop PC, or any BSD distro would, whereas Crunchbang, Puppy, Debian, Ubuntu, or any Linux distro would be better on a laptop for a secondary PC and vice versa.

Windows is average, and Mac is really good if you have the money.

There's also Solaris, but you gotta pay for that OS.

Last edited by Psyduck9550 (2011-10-28 02:51:56)


My dA. http://dfx4509b.deviantart.com/

I'm pretty much a typical geek. lol

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#15 2011-10-28 02:52:10

psyco430404
#! Die Hard
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Registered: 2011-07-04
Posts: 804

Re: BSD impressions

@Psyduck

OSX is the biggest steaming pile ive ever used xD. Id take a worm infested windows over a fully working OSX because the windows can be fixed and made to run stable the OSX is stuck in the crippling state its in no matter what you do. I cant believe Berkeley would let Apple use there Darwin as a base when Aqua is possibly the worst UI i've ever used on a desktop PC.

Back on topic how ever.

For BSD as a whole i find the principal of Ports very interesting reminds me of something like Funtoo or Gentoo. I cant imagine anything more stable then what is in essence a server kernel running on a desktop.


"'If fighting is to result in victory, then you must fight'...Sun Tzu said that and id say he knows a little more about fighting then you do pal."

- TF2 Soldier

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#16 2011-10-28 02:58:23

Psyduck9550
#! CrunchBanger
From: Lawton, OK
Registered: 2011-10-14
Posts: 184
Website

Re: BSD impressions

And also, if you wanna pay for it, Solaris is supposed to be really, really good as well. BSD's a great free alternative though. I basically respect all OS for the most part, as every platform has its ups and downs.

Linux and Unix (and especially BSD and Solaris) are supposed to be lightyears ahead of Windows as far as security, stability, hardware range, and overall performance goes though.

Last edited by Psyduck9550 (2011-10-28 03:02:06)


My dA. http://dfx4509b.deviantart.com/

I'm pretty much a typical geek. lol

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#17 2011-10-28 04:42:36

dmhdlr
#! Junkie
From: Philadelphia
Registered: 2011-05-09
Posts: 312

Re: BSD impressions

psyco430404 wrote:

OSX is the biggest steaming pile ive ever used xD. Id take a worm infested windows over a fully working OSX because the windows can be fixed and made to run stable the OSX is stuck in the crippling state its in no matter what you do. I cant believe Berkeley would let Apple use there Darwin as a base when Aqua is possibly the worst UI i've ever used on a desktop PC.

OSX is a BSD. And it may not be the experience you're looking for but it's hardly < Windows, and much less < virus-ridden Windows. It's as stable and unified as the BSDs are said to be.


"Emacs: making you posthuman since 1976"
Axiom #1: Emacs is a text interface prosthesis
Axiom #2: Org-mode gives you super cyborg organizational powers
cf. Why Emacs | Emacs-fu | EmacsWiki | Worg

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#18 2011-10-28 05:10:30

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 2,983

Re: BSD impressions

rstrcogburn wrote:

If anyone is interested in a FreeBSD ZFS install I'd recommend this BSDMAG issue (free download) http://bsdmag.org/magazine/1049-hosting-bsd to learn by getting your hands dirty.  That article started out by @vermaden on the FreeBSD forums install guide and was good enough to be put in the magazine.

An excellent resource. Top bloke, that vermaden. I've been running mods of some of his scripts (mainly for screen) for years.



replicant wrote:

Is it just me or is OpenBSD the coolest BSD?

That link @rstcogburn shared contains an issue where they have quite a decent comparo between FreeBSD and OpenBSD. I wouldn't call OpenBSD the coolest, but I sure like their "mission statement" and their single-minded, almost belligerent pursuit of security and cleanliness of code. Just study the source files of any app approved for the project (the Xenocara tree is a good example) and you'll see what I mean. They also seem to set the standard when it comes to documentation, though to be fair all BSD projects annihilate Linux in that segment. One "downside" of OpenBSD is that it doesn't support newer journaling systems like ZFS or HAMMER, either due to licensing or stability issues.



psyco430404 wrote:

OSX is the biggest steaming pile ive ever used xD. Id take a worm infested windows over a fully working OSX because the windows can be fixed and made to run stable the OSX is stuck in the crippling state its in no matter what you do. I cant believe Berkeley would let Apple use there Darwin as a base when Aqua is possibly the worst UI i've ever used on a desktop PC.

In OSX's defence, it provides a very decent X11 environment to work in. I don't like Aqua either, but one can run WMs like xMonad or ScrotWM quite well (with a little tweaking) on OSX. Just don't show screenshots of it to a Mactard, cos you won't hear the end of it. Alas, BSD hardware support isn't the most current (no fault of theirs), as it would be nice to buy a brand new MacBook and proceed to purify it with FreeBSD. =P


Point & Squirt

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#19 2011-10-28 06:51:45

Awebb
The Singularity
Registered: 2009-07-23
Posts: 2,812

Re: BSD impressions

replicant wrote:

What's this about masturbating monkeys?

Edit: I shoulda known. Know-nothing Linus said it. Still the image is strange. I'm sure Linus has weird fetishes though.

He also coined the term "Wanking Walrus". I think he likes the Ubuntu naming scheme. I'm a little sad because they went with "Meveric Meercat" instead. I'd definitly have installed and used Ubuntu 10.04 Masturbating Monkey. So there are still hopes for 15.10...

Last edited by Awebb (2011-10-28 06:52:54)


I'm so meta, even this acronym

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#20 2011-10-28 06:57:44

.not
#! Junkie
Registered: 2011-09-03
Posts: 340

Re: BSD impressions

replicant wrote:
psyco430404 wrote:

OSX is the biggest steaming pile ive ever used xD. Id take a worm infested windows over a fully working OSX because the windows can be fixed and made to run stable the OSX is stuck in the crippling state its in no matter what you do. I cant believe Berkeley would let Apple use there Darwin as a base when Aqua is possibly the worst UI i've ever used on a desktop PC.

OSX is a BSD. And it may not be the experience you're looking for but it's hardly < Windows, and much less < virus-ridden Windows. It's as stable and unified as the BSDs are said to be.

Don't say that while talking to BSD-techies .. they'll tear you apart.

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#21 2011-10-28 07:07:50

rhowaldt
#!*$%:)
Registered: 2011-03-09
Posts: 4,396

Re: BSD impressions

Awebb wrote:

He also coined the term "Wanking Walrus". I think he likes the Ubuntu naming scheme. I'm a little sad because they went with "Meveric Meercat" instead. I'd definitly have installed and used Ubuntu 10.04 Masturbating Monkey. So there are still hopes for 15.10...

i hate it when software developers (or anyone for that matter) has no sense of humor, at least not enough to just use those names instead of far-fetched stuff like 'Meveric Meerkat'.

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#22 2011-10-28 07:50:07

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 2,983

Re: BSD impressions

rhowaldt wrote:

i hate it when software developers (or anyone for that matter) has no sense of humor.....

Then you'd probably like OpenBSD devs....

monkey1.png?w=371&h=329

Image courtesy of Daisuke_Aramaki/P.K.Murugan/Skinwalker.


Point & Squirt

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#23 2011-10-28 08:16:22

el_koraco
#!/loony/bun
From: inside Ed
Registered: 2011-07-25
Posts: 4,749

Re: BSD impressions

gutterslob wrote:

though to be fair all BSD projects annihilate Linux in that segment.

Be fair, they annihilate Linux with man pages. If you count /usr/share/doc/ the difference is not that drastic.

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#24 2011-10-28 08:40:47

gutterslob
#! Resident Bum
Registered: 2009-11-03
Posts: 2,983

Re: BSD impressions

el_koraco wrote:

Be fair, they annihilate Linux with man pages. If you count /usr/share/doc/ the difference is not that drastic.

You're right, and I stand corrected. I was mainly referring to man page documentation

Linux projects probably have the lead with regards to overall documentation, thanks to bigger forums, possibly more active mailing lists, google's project pages (since their "summer of code" movement gained traction) and all the unofficial stuff you can find online.

Last edited by gutterslob (2011-10-28 08:43:29)


Point & Squirt

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Be excellent to each other!

#25 2011-10-28 09:06:01

GuruX
#! Die Hard
Registered: 2009-01-18
Posts: 527

Re: BSD impressions

@Psyduck9550
I was just about to say, what about OpenSolaris? But then I learned that Oracle killed OpenSolaris when they bought sun. Damn Oracle. Those guys are masturbating monkeys!
I installed OpenSolaris when it still was developed. It was a really short install, but I remember that it was very easy to install and set up. We're talking windows easy install here.

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